Matrox Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hi guys,In February I'm going to buy a new camera. I need something that can be used as a hybrid - for photos and videos. I know it's a hard choice and it would be easier to have one camera for photos and second for video work, but currently, this option is out of my budget.So, I'm thinking about buying a Sony A7 (used) with 28-70mm Sony stabilized lens. Yeah, this lens is not fast, but current choice of FE lenses is limited and in the beginning, I can live with that (later on I'll buy a decent EF or Leica glass). In terms of stills, its really great camera - nice sensor and tons of features, including great EVF (I prefer to work with EVF). It also have many video features, with peaking and zebras, but there is a one downside: AVCHD codec. And I'm wondering - is it really that bad? A7 is also dust and moisture resistant, which is a good thing. For a minute, I thought about Panasonic GH3, especially in terms of video, which is better than A7. But I'm really disappointed with low light capabilites, especially for stills. Also, there is a Sony A6000 in game, which has really great autofocus, but with reasonable price of used Sony A7, it doesn't look as attractive. What are your thoughts? What would you recommend for someone, who is looking for a decent camera for stills and videos? My budget is around 1100$ (with lens included). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 1, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 1, 2015 How much is a used 5D Mark II where you live? With Magic Lantern raw that gives the best image for the price and as a stills camera it does the basics right like AF. No EVF though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 How much is a used 5D Mark II where you live? With Magic Lantern raw that gives the best image for the price and as a stills camera it does the basics right like AF. No EVF though.Well, I would say it is on the margin of my budget. From what I have just checked, offers below 1100$ are without lens, so it could be a problem. But it is worth considering.The problem with 5D Mark II is OVF. I'm shooting with EVF for 3 years and I really, really like the way you work with EVF. And what's more, it can be used while recording video. But there also other things that I don't particullary like about 5DM2:weigh - its really heavy and bulky - I travel a lot between two cities and weight is really importantit may sound inmature, but: no WI-Fi and NFC - as a photographer I'm really looking forward for these features in Sony A7/A6000, because you can easily share photos "on the go" while shooting or travelling - and now I'm seeing many photographers around the world who are really liking that feature no headphone jacknot so great AF for today's standards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 1, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 1, 2015 Have you considered the Panasonic LX100? Seems a good fit. The stills are better on the A7 though.You will struggle to get a full frame camera in your budget that shoots great video.Nikon D750 is too much, A7S is too much.APS-C then Nikon D5300 would be a good choice. Great stills and good 1080p. You can put a loupe on it and you have your EVF shooting style back.You might be able to stretch to a used GH4 if you find a bargain body but it won't leave much over for the requisite lenses it needs to make it look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 If you are looking for good AF you will have to deal with the bulk, the 5d mkiv might have good video, the mkiii should lower it's price a lot then. I wouldn't use the A7 for anything video related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Have you considered the Panasonic LX100? Seems a good fit. The stills are better on the A7 though.I'm not a fan of the idea that I should go backwards and have a camera without interchangeable lens You will struggle to get a full frame camera in your budget that shoots great video.Nikon D750 is too much, A7S is too much. Right? I am between a hammer and an anvil. Currently, there isn't any camera - around 1000$ - that has EVF and it's great for both stills and videos, without big compromises. A7s is great for video, but 12mpx camera for photo is not that great in 2015...APS-C then Nikon D5300 would be a good choice. Great stills and good 1080p. You can put a loupe on it and you have your EVF shooting style back.I saw some test videos and image is really good, but no aperture change in video mode (live view) in 2015? No zebras, no focus peaking? Nikon could have done something big, but they failed. In terms of image quality - D5300 is great, but functionality lacks some basics. If you are looking for good AF you will have to deal with the bulk, the 5d mkiv might have good video, the mkiii should lower it's price a lot then. I wouldn't use the A7 for anything video related.Nah, you say? I am using Sony SLT-A35, which is 4 years old and AF is okay. I suspect that AF systems in current mirrorless cameras are better. But it also depends on type of work you are doing. I mostly shoot on location or in studio (fashion etc.) and I don't need that fast AF. However, from time to time, it would be great to have it - sometimes I just want to photograph my dog running and you know, it would be nice to capture everything in focus Why would you not use A7 for video work? My A35 doesn't have full manual controls (I can only control aperture, but shutter and ISO are automatic) and yet, I shot a wedding, documentry and one commercial last year. Was the quality great? No, but it was OK. It's only a camera, a tool. I really don't know what to do. I'm not a full frame purist - I can easily grab an APS-C camera, because these sensors are great nowadays. However, full frame sensors are also getting better and better and we can all agree that we can't fool physics. I thought that now I can buy A7 and later on move to A7 II, but it turned out that in terms of video quality, A7 II is not that great, right Andrew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenogears Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 If you already have a a35, give to the a77MKII a try, now with the Xavc-s codec.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 To be honest, I want to fly away from A-mount. You cannot use any Canon / Nikon / Leica glass with it. Plus, A77 II sensor is not that great. I checked prices in my country and it costs more than 1100$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 What are you most wanting to film? There are a lot of great options. Not sure what your requirements are, but maybe a Olympus might be a good fit, depending? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawZ Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Just wanted to chime in before you make any big mistakes. The 12MPX A7S will generally wipe the snot out of most cameras on the market because while it's only 12MPX, it's still full frame which means those photosites can receive much more and higher quality light information resulting in much better dynamic range. If you plan on making huge wall splattering size prints than go for something else. If you want super quality then do your homework before you drop cash on a body you're not satisfied with. Lastly, all cameras benefit from the quality of glass you put in front of it. I can show you footage from a GH4 with an SLR Magic lens that could compete with anything that is out there. Please don't rush to buy a body. Do your research first. Don't wanna see you waste money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 What are you most wanting to film? There are a lot of great options. Not sure what your requirements are, but maybe a Olympus might be a good fit, depending?Olympus for video work? Which models do you have in mind?Talking about things I want to film: that's the tricky part. You see, I'm still developing and I cannot simply say X or Y. I will try to do a short film this year, but I'll also look forward to any opportunities for shooting commercials and maybe some web series.Just wanted to chime in before you make any big mistakes. The 12MPX A7S will generally wipe the snot out of most cameras on the market because while it's only 12MPX, it's still full frame which means those photosites can receive much more and higher quality light information resulting in much better dynamic range. If you plan on making huge wall splattering size prints than go for something else. If you want super quality then do your homework before you drop cash on a body you're not satisfied with. Lastly, all cameras benefit from the quality of glass you put in front of it. I can show you footage from a GH4 with an SLR Magic lens that could compete with anything that is out there. Please don't rush to buy a body. Do your research first. Don't wanna see us waste money. You're absolutely right about stunning dynamic range.Unfortunately, one of my plans in photography area is to try to get some pictures published in magazines. So, this is why this 12mpx sensor worries me. What's more, A7s is completely out of my budget right know. I know you can say "there's no need to hurry" - well, there is. I'm struggling with my current camera, because it has many problems while working with strobes, mainly because this camera wasn't pretened to do any serious job, it was created as a tool for amateurs The biggest problem is that the camera "doesn't know" that is working with strobes on wireless receivers, so it does not lighten up the EVF/LCD. In newer Sony cameras, there is an option to force camera to brighten the scene, but on my A35 - there isn't. In terms of photography, this why I need to change it. I love the picture quality, it's really sufficient with Sony DT 50mm f/1.8. I know that lenses are really important, I don't even take off my 50mm f/1.8 from body, its that great. However, Sony 28-70mm f/3.5-f/5.6 is not that bad and performance-wise is quite good, not that far away from Zeiss f/4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawZ Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 There is also a plethora of vintage glass on the market which works great as cine lenses if you were so inclined. With your strobe/evf issues, I'm sure the good people here might be able to give you options/workarounds. If the evf weren't an issue, would you still be looking for a new camera? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 There is also a plethora of vintage glass on the market which works great as cine lenses if you were so inclined. With your strobe/evf issues, I'm sure the good people here might be able to give you options/workarounds. If the evf weren't an issue, would you still be looking for a new camera?Believe me or not, but I spend days trying to figure out a workaround for this, but it simply doesn't exist It is a known issue and newer models solved that by mentioned extra settings. If I would be doing only stills, no, I wouldn't. But it also do video, and I need something better, something that is not limiting me in basic stuff (such as full manual control of exposure). In terms of cine lenses, there's no doubt that there are plenty of good glass from other manufacturers. Hence, even for stills glass from other companies can be easily used, because focus peaking works quite well from what I read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawZ Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Is 4K a must? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noone Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have an A7 and A7s.For my amateur video I think the a7 is ok. Most of the people on this forum would want better but will do more with video than most people and spend longer in post than most. I would think if some of the more experienced users on this forum tried an A7 they could get some quite lovely results in many cases. There probably are some types of video that might not suit it but for others it may be ok.To me, it is has ok video quality but with lots of things to make it easier to shoot (like peaking and magnification and zebras and mic and headphones jacks). The sound is actually very good I think with a mic on the hotshoe. Having APSC mode available is also a bonus.As a stills camera, well up to ISO 6400 it is the best camera for my purposes I have used and ok at 12800 too and for a full frame digital interchangeable lens camera with an EVF there is not much choice besides it. It is also very adaptable being able to use A mount and EF mount lenses with great compatibility. If you buy new from authorised sellers in some areas you can get a free EF mount Metabones IV or A mount LA-EA4 adapter by redemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawZ Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 So here's my idea while I was cooking dinner. Two options. Option 1. Get a good used Canon T2i, load it with Magic Lantern, and get a used Zcuto for the LCD and use whatever is leftover for the best glass you can afford or get adapters for what you have now. Option 2. Get a brand new Canon 70D with the 18-55 STM lens for $1149. It's only $49 over your budget and it has a touch screen and wifi. Load it with Magic Lantern and get a used Zcuto later on when you can afford it. Thats is all I have for ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Just about and camera body on the market can take exceptional stills these days...if you have the skill to do so I suggest you analyze what your needs are for film/stills and then adjust from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablogrollan Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I believe there are options within your budget. The a6000 or even a5100 are pretty good for stills and decent for video -especially the a5100 with XAVC-S-, well below your budget with kit lens or even the double lens kit (16-50 and 55-200 I believe). Not fast lenses but with nice autofocus for stills. Or buy the body and a metabones adapter if you have access to cheap used glass from Canon or Nikon -though forget about autofocus in that case-You could also have a look at a Panasonic FZ1000 or a Sony RX10. Sure, the sensor is smaller (1 inch) and no interchangeable glass, but the Sony RX10 has a 25-200mm equivalent Zeiss with constant 2.8 aperture, mic input and built-in nd filters (should there be such a lens for full frame, it would be a must regardless of the price). If you are not too concerned with super shallow depth of field, both of these cameras could be considered.Best advice I can give you: Try before you buy. Maybe your friends have any of the bodys mentioned in the thread, maybe you can find a friendly store to let you try them in their premises... but it is important that you feel comfortable with the camera you'll be working with.Btw, I agree with JawZ that the 12MP of the A7s are enough for print magazines. With nice glass, it is sharp enough to scale to anything reasonable. The only limitation is heavy cropping/reframing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I'm still developing and I cannot simply say X or Y.I think if you're still developing I'd recommend a cheap M43 Panasonic body with a set of used M43 fast prime lenses; 12, 24, & 45mm. Small, affordable, and will cover just about everything you might want to shoot except for extreme wide and long. Good for video and stills. I believe primes are better for learning how to shoot. Zooms allow you to develop too many bad habits at the beginning. Or, maybe an Olympus body; depending if you think the 5-axis stabilization is a big value for whatever you're doing. pablogrollan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Thanks everyone for responses!Is 4K a must?No, absolutely not. 1080p will be fine for now.To me, it is has ok video quality but with lots of things to make it easier to shoot (like peaking and magnification and zebras and mic and headphones jacks). The sound is actually very good I think with a mic on the hotshoe. Having APSC mode available is also a bonus.As a stills camera, well up to ISO 6400 it is the best camera for my purposes I have used and ok at 12800 too and for a full frame digital interchangeable lens camera with an EVF there is not much choice besides it. It is also very adaptable being able to use A mount and EF mount lenses with great compatibility. If you buy new from authorised sellers in some areas you can get a free EF mount Metabones IV or A mount LA-EA4 adapter by redemption.I would say that functionality is the best thing about A7. From what I see, it was really created as a camera for serious video shooters. Maybe Sony didn't quite deliver the video quality we expected from that sensor, but overall, its OK. Could be better, though.In my country there aren't any extra deals like in the USA. I will be looking for a used one, because new is out of my budget.So here's my idea while I was cooking dinner. Two options. Option 1. Get a good used Canon T2i, load it with Magic Lantern, and get a used Zcuto for the LCD and use whatever is leftover for the best glass you can afford or get adapters for what you have now. Option 2. Get a brand new Canon 70D with the 18-55 STM lens for $1149. It's only $49 over your budget and it has a touch screen and wifi. Load it with Magic Lantern and get a used Zcuto later on when you can afford it. Thats is all I have for ideas. To be honest, everyone - especially on EOSHD - is saying that Canon DSLRs (apart from 5DM3 and 1D C) are obsolete and almost dead in terms of video. I really don't want to take that road, especially considering that I mostly do stills nowadays and stills on Canon APS-C aren't something great right know (sensor is old). Nikon and Sony are way ahead in this area. 70D would be worth considering if it would cost around ~700$, but for 1149$ I would rather go full frame with A7.One great thing about Canon is Magic Latern, as you mentioned. Although I'm wondering if is it really stable and can be used on serious jobs?Just about and camera body on the market can take exceptional stills these days...if you have the skill to do so I suggest you analyze what your needs are for film/stills and then adjust from there. In stills area I know what I'm doing and what type of photography I'm pursuing. Here are some examples:All done with a camera that now costs ~300$, so I really can push my gear as hard as I can With film, we'll see. I want to shoot a short story this year, but also try to get into commercials, web series etc.I believe there are options within your budget. The a6000 or even a5100 are pretty good for stills and decent for video -especially the a5100 with XAVC-S-, well below your budget with kit lens or even the double lens kit (16-50 and 55-200 I believe). Not fast lenses but with nice autofocus for stills. Or buy the body and a metabones adapter if you have access to cheap used glass from Canon or Nikon -though forget about autofocus in that case-You could also have a look at a Panasonic FZ1000 or a Sony RX10. Sure, the sensor is smaller (1 inch) and no interchangeable glass, but the Sony RX10 has a 25-200mm equivalent Zeiss with constant 2.8 aperture, mic input and built-in nd filters (should there be such a lens for full frame, it would be a must regardless of the price). If you are not too concerned with super shallow depth of field, both of these cameras could be considered.Best advice I can give you: Try before you buy. Maybe your friends have any of the bodys mentioned in the thread, maybe you can find a friendly store to let you try them in their premises... but it is important that you feel comfortable with the camera you'll be working with.Btw, I agree with JawZ that the 12MP of the A7s are enough for print magazines. With nice glass, it is sharp enough to scale to anything reasonable. The only limitation is heavy cropping/reframing.I would totally buy A5100 if it had EVF! However, if A6000 would have XAVC-S... there is a rumor that we'll see A6100 next year, with XAVC-S.One thing that I particullary like about A6000 is AF. I played with A6000 twice in the shop and wow, this AF is really great. EVF is ok, slightly better than in my A35. One thing that worries me is 1/160 x-sync. It is always better to have 1/200 or 1/250 (A7). Talking about "try before you buy" - it is hard. You can check some things in shop, but only few of them. I mean, the camera shows you true inner-self in real life situations, on set etc. When I was playing with A6000 I cannot even record anything to SD, because shop clerks told me that it is prohibited in their shop.RX10 and FZ1000? I would rather stay with interchangeable lens camera. noone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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