Jahleh

Had the 75mm Saturn with the S5II. With 6k25p open gate occasionally the footage looked awesome, but most of the times it looked like not in focus and crappy. All Panas have 1.5x desqueeze, and this Sirui is 1.6x so focusing was a bit of pain via S5II’s mediocre EVF, or my Saturn copy was just bad at focusing. In 4:3 3.3k50p mode it looked just bad and like out of focus all the time. Sold the Saturn, as frame graps from the 6k footage did not look as good as with spherical lenses. Miss the 2.4:1 AR though.

After two or three years of editing HDR out of S5, S5II and GH6 footage and then from GH7, Z6III and ZR I wouldn’t say they look the same. Panny’s footage can be tweaked to look almost similar than Z6III, but still it just doesn’t look as good to my eye. The ZR R3D NE also looks a bit different than NRaw, but it is debatable which one’s colors are better. In this same context Iphone 15 Pro Proress footage stands out, and not in a good way, when viewed on a big screen.

With Sony the only FW update you get is probably for your Playstation, but don’t worry, Sony will always release a cheaper model, which will have some of the features you miss. Canon R5II and R6III sounded tempting, but after looking the 3D pop & toneh show from YT I am not sure Canon IQ is any better than Nikon. It depends on which kind of image you like more. So it leaves only Panasonic and Nikon on the table for me. With them you might get some HW and FW quirks at launch, but they also try to fix them and give new good additional features along the years, not just in the form of new bodies like Sony. I have a 35mm F1.4 too, but it is only for those cases I can’t use the 135mm F1.8. My 50mm F1.2 captured only dust since I got the 135. Still not sure whether I should up or downgrade it and 35 F1.4 to 35 F1.2 or to boring, but easy to use 24-70 S II. Probably not. Thought also about swapping the Z6III and 400mm F4.5 to Z8, as with 2.3x crop 135mm would be 310mm F4.1 on Z8. Very likely not worth it either.

I had only original S5 before the S5II, but the various 8k and 4k H.264 4:2:2, H.265 4:2:0 and Proress samples from S1RII looked clearly not that over-sharpened during the short period I played with them in Resolve. They were much closer to S5, colors were kind of richer, and in low light shots it looked cleaner and good. I was seriously tempted to switch back, but did not want to get rid of my new Nikon lenses. I was also put off by the various crop modes and over heating. Now, with Z6III, ZR and 4 Nikon lenses it would need S2H with good EVF, 4” screen and H.265 IQ comparable to R3D NE for me to switch back. Proress Raw HQ file sizes are even bigger than what R3D NE has, and raw controls worse in Resolve, so that is not an option for me.

When S1RII came out I played also with the files Connor Maccaskill provided and they did look nice and cleaner compared to S5II footage I had captured during previous year or two. Still, as I already had my foot firmly in the Nikon Raw camp, did not want to pay the difference to change back to Panasonic.

Pretty sure pre-recording does not cover a minute or two longer periods and it probably needs someone to press the shutter or record button before action starts. Nikon has this auto capture, that would be a better solution if it works reliably and starts when subject enters the frame as configured in the settings and stops too. Still, in certain sports you need to start the camera well before execution, and not worry what it is doing, if you want to be able to perform.

Maybe, but if you happen to shoot a lot outside during nice sunset light and with a beautiful view behind where the action happens why on earth would you shoot only h.265, especially with the ZR, if you can shoot R3D NE or Nraw and be happy about the small IQ and ease of color grading improvements. This shooting being just a hobby to me that I can combine with other hobbies even small IQ improvements are worth it, if it makes you spend more time with the hobbies and be happier what you manage to capture. With Pana’s over sharpened h.265 it became more like set the camera and forget, and I had not that much interest chenking the captured footage nor edit it. But you do what suits you the best.

Well, if you do fast sports alone and want to capture the certain moment in slow mo when it happens if it happens at all, the only way is to set the camera to tripod, hit record and go do the sports you do. Then you trim and save only that special moment, not the whole clip. Oh wait, with R3D NE you can’t do that at the moment🤯

SSD review says 256GB and 512GB Lexar Professional Golds get up to 85C and the 2TB card only to 63C. In the same review Delkin Black 512GB is the coolest at 39C. I have had no problems with 2TB Lexar Professional Gold in Z6iii at 25C in direct mid day sun, but 6k50p NRaw may not be as taxing to the camera and card as Panny’s 422 H.265.

Exactly. Everything related to editing works. Only if you shoot long clips from tripod and want to save only some short trimmed parts of it as R3D NE raw, both Resolve and Red Cine X Pro do not work. Kind of assumed that as NRaw to R3D clips behave the same.

Editing R3D NE raw clips in Resolve works fine. For example if you shoot H.265 you can use quicktime in MacOS to open and view your clips, trim unwanted parts out and save only the important to SSD. For NRaw that does not work. I have used Resolve to import the NRaw clips from CFExpress card into the timeline, trim (cut) the carbage out, and export (save) important parts as individual NRaw clips via Resolve’s Media Management For R3D NE and also for NRaw to R3D hacked clips Resolve’s media management exports the whole clips, not only the trimmed parts, so there is no way to save only the parts of Raw footage you want to keep. Red Cine X pro just fails on the export. After starting to shoot NRaw I took a habit to view, trim, edit and save my daily footage after each shooting day, so that my 2TB card would be empty for the next day. That way I would have only my important NRaw footage stored, and also a quick daily clip of those important parts edited, graded and exported as H.265 to view at the same night. With R3D NE you either store everything you shoot as Raw, or edit something out of it and store it as H.265.

After shooting with ZR and 135mm F1.8 Plena outside for a few hours in depressing Autumn darkness, and another few inside with 35 1.4 it’s pretty clear the ZR and R3D NE have their perks. ZR feels quite small and nimble with the 35 1.4, and ok with the Plena without extra L grip. I can live without Z6iii EVF, barely. Focusing and exposing via ZR display works ok even from 20m away with the Plena at F1.8 during and after sunset. Exposing via highlights set to 245 work fine, as does the Cinema tools false color LUT. With CT LUT there is no zebras though, only with built in Rec709 LUT. The Red colors are a bit different (better?) than with NRaw and blue is not over saturated with LEDs. In low light R3D NE is clearly better than NRaw. With IPP2 pipeline grading is also a bit faster to get better results, both in SDR and HDR in Resolve. The only big downside is that neither RED Cine X Pro nor Resolve cannot export the trimmed R3D NE clips from the timeline at the moment, probably due to a bug in Red SDK. Resolve just copies the whole clips. Shooting longer periods from sticks is then a no go atm, unless you compress the raw to H.265 and save that, or edit your project straight from the CFExpress card. Copying whole 2TB to SSD is just stupid, if there is only 100-500GB of footage worth saving. Hopefully there is an update to Red SDK and the ZR could need a FW update too for some minor bugs and for H.265, which did look softer than Z6iii H.265.

Finally got ZR yesterday. After changing all the settings like I have them in Z6iii, except Zebras and Vignette for R3D, got to test it a bit too. 1st, the screen is really good, you can change almost everything needed via the touch id and new menus quite quickly and intuitively. Need to figure out still what I need to set on those 4 custom buttons really. The grip is tiny but feels ok in the hand. Still, with heavier lenses like 1kg 50 f1.2 and 135 f1.8 having the L shaped gage’s bigger grip seems to be a must, as it also has the Arca-swizz base plate for easy tripod use too. Quickly tested R3D NE vs NRaw to R3D hack with ISO 800 and 6400, and R3D NE was a bit cleaner in the shadows and seemed to hold the colors better too. The Z6iii EVF and all of it’s buttons in muscle memory seems still of course more convenient to use, but there is no going back to timy 3.2” screens after this. In various Panas and Z6iii I almost never used the screen. Cinema tools has made a false color LUT, propably have to buy and try that too, if setting the zebras to 245 for R3D highlights does not work like zebras at 255 for NRaw. The build quality seemed robust, but the shutter button needs a bit heavier press. Could not find the focus limiter in the menus either. Hopefully the weather allows to take both ZR and Z6iii outside, and see how the ZR handles, and what the footage looks like.

R3D NE, NRaw, Prores and H.265 compared by Cinema Tools. Not that much difference between R3D and NRaw, but not sure if they exposed according to this Recommended Zebra pattern values for R3D NE footage at Different ISO levels document. https://download.nikonimglib.com/archive8/ocJ930074UNE07okE3j44a40zA01/R3D_NE_datasheet_for_Zebra_pattern_(En)01.pdf

Very interesting to see Paule’s Zr vs S1ii comparison. In his Prores Raw in DaVinci Resolve video comments he said he was surprised that S1ii internal PRRaw had the same amount of sharpening and noise than H.265, which shouldn’t be the case. Could explain the 10 stop latitude. Very close to pulling the trigger on Zr, but still in doubt if 4 inch screen is as good and convenient to use than Z6iii’s EVF, where you can correct your near sight vision. Don’t want to look the Zr display from meter away now, it would get quite uncomfortable fast🤣

Absolutely agree. Since starting to shoot Raw, even pseudo one, shooting and editing have become more interesting. The only deadline that a hobbyist can have is to clear your CFExpress card every night, if you plan on shooting the next day. I have only one 2TB card, so I took a habit to trim the captured footage after every shooting day, save it to SSD, and edit a quick video out of it, so we can watch it from the big screen how the day went.

Default value of sharpening for NRaw in Resolve is defined in Project setting Camera Raw page and it seems to be 10 out 100 and you CAN set it to zero. Sharpness can be then adjusted on clip level too. With sharpness set to 10 NRaw looks clean, but calm, not over sharpened For Red Raw Resolve has Image detail that can be set to low, medium and high. Z6iii NRaw files pretty surely do not have default noice reduction when you compare same file named to NEV and R3D with R3D’s chroma NR activated.

As a just hobbyist I don’t probably need Raw, but viewing from a 3m screen you don’t want to view something shot on a phone in crappy HDR mode either. After starting to shoot Raw I’ve wanted to shoot more, to see how the Raw clips look. Also tinkered more in Resolve to get better understanding how to get better looking end result. Got also new lenses to get better footage from different angles. Could have just done the same with Panasonic H.265 but somehow it started to feel boring. Sometimes change is good if it makes you want to shoot and learn more. The only bad thing about Raw is cost of storage, which might make you trim the clips too tight to save space. For CPU and GPU in Apple land 6k raw isn’t any heavier to edit than 6k H.265, unless you need NR, which is as heavy as using speed warp to slow down 6k25p H.265. 4TB SSD costs now the same than 2TB a few years ago.

Damn, now that looks something different than the NEV to R3D hack

After editing 5 days footage with NEV to R3D hack straight from the CFExpress, and with just NEV I still don’t know if Red’s IPP2 pipeline is better than how NRaw is handled in Resolve. Figured out why Red tone mapping and highlight roll of did not look better than NRaw. I have a power grade where one parallel node has +20 on shadows and -20 on light on HDR wheels, and it seems to do the same thing. Applied that power grade to Red timeline too and still it is not better, colors are duller, and if you have camera shake with IBIS accidentally off, you get severe rolling shutter, which is not seen in NRaw files. I do like the Red ISO control, and chroma NR though. Now if actual Zr colors are as good as in some of the latest videos, you can have two good, different looks from the Zr with R3D and NRaw. Not counting ProresRaw as it’s file sizes are even bigger and Raw controls worse than Red’s and Nikon’s.

Yes, you are right and I am well aware of Z8 data rates too. Still, with 6k25p it is not that much of data, but you loose the ability for slow mo if you happen to need that later on. Got the Z6iii primarily for it’s 6k50p and 4k100p and have used only those for almost everything, even in low light with ISOs up to 12800. With Zr I could maybe momentarily live with only 6k25p for occasional shots. For Z8 owners Zr data rates are no problem if they’ve got used to shoot and store 8.3k NRaw high. Wouldn’t get Zr just for h.265, a Z6iii or Z8 can do that too if needed.

In this case 1:2 starts to get quite heavy for the storage, might as well shoot 8k50p NRaw normal with Z8, but shooting 6k25p with R3D or APSC-C 4k50p are always options to have similar bitrates than with Z6iii. With S5ii h.265 I could store 2 or 3 year’s footage to 2TB SSD. Now with Z6iii NRaw I need 4TB per year, but maybe I’ve shot also more with Z6iii. The Red Raw needs to be something very special, and above Z6iii NRaw for me to double the storage space required😅

A quick example from yesterday. Shot about 43 minutes of 6k50p NRaw normal footage from tripod and it took about 500GB of storage. After trimming down NEV clips in Resolve and exporting only important parts they took only 50GB. With R3D NE it would have taken 1TB of storage and if trim and export do not work in Resolve it would be 1TB vs 100GB of storage needed to store those R3D NE files. Simply too much, if you multiply that for like 100 days or more in a year

Look at S1ii and it probably has baked in NR in h.265 even more than Nikons have. Was it in CVP’s review that Zr had a setting for NR in the menus. Hopefully it is there in the final software. Nothing to complain about Z6iii’s h.265 IQ so far though. The NEV to R3D hack can be used for quick edits straight from the CFExpress card, but as long as there is no working solutions to trim the files and save them as R3D I prefer the original NEV work flow and maybe Nikon colors too.

Pretty good summary. After shooting NRaw almost a year now with Z6iii I can relate to almost all of that. According to Gerald and Cinematools Z6iii FX 4k NRaw is line skipped but DX is pixel to pixel, which is the reason why in Cinematools’ Z8 vs Z6iii comparison the 4k120p with Z6iii looks better. The only extra step with NRaw IMHO is to use Resolve to trim the NRaw files and export important parts via Resolve’s Media management. If you do the Red Raw hack after export, Resolve won’t accept the renamed files. If you do the hack first, Resolve won’t export the trimmed R3D files. Have not tried Red CineX pro though. Hopefully it or some other method works with the Zr’s R3D NE Raw files.