DeesserLord

Hi,

Anyone would mind sharing a C-Log 3 video sample in 4K from the Canon EOS R7 ?

I can't find any sample to download online. I'd love to see how it grades in Resolve.

Thanks

https://***URL removed***/news/5472961411/canon-announces-rebel-t8i-with-revamped-af-and-4k-video

The newest and highest-performing Rebel camera within the Canon lineup features the DIGIC 8 Image Processor, eye-detection in live view, 4K video, clean 4K HDMI outputˆ

ˆ Output of images in 4K UHD resolution without shooting information. If monitor does not support 4K UHD, the resolution of the output format is lowered for display.

Optical Viewfinder with a 45-point All Cross-type AF System with Face Detect to ensure images are in focus

24 Megapixel CMOS (APS-C) Sensor• Continuous Shooting at up to 7.0 fps

4K UHD, Full HD up to 24P

Equipped with an Approx. 220,000 Pixel New AE Sensor and EOS iTR AF (Face Detection)

Fast & Accurate Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Eye-detection (Servo)

Vari-angle, 3.0-inch LCD Touch Screen

Advanced Control with AF-ON Button and Quick Control Dial

Built-in Wi-Fi®2 and Bluetooth®3 Connectivity

no words on 4K crop though i suspect it is there

No words on 4K crop or not ?

Canon may have waited too long to update their cameras but they still hold up to me

Completely silent autofocus with the STM lenses

Great AF with dual pixel, smooth transitions

Smooth iso transition in auto mode (no steps)

Great user interface

Great tilting screen

Best color science to me

Great colors in low light

Good battery life

Great handling

I owned a X-T20 and returned it when i realized it's not all just about bitrate 

what do they mean by "proper" 4K ? no crop ? that would be great. I think i read somewhere dual pixel AF doesn't work in 4K though.

I hope the bitrate is good.

Hi

Seems like nobody is interested in the T8i... Did the full video specs leak ? bitrate ? crop ? Is it improved over the T7i ?

holy shit why didn't i heard about these filters before ? thanks for the info. here's a comparison. i guess 1/2 is a bit too much tough

10 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

You saying films nowadays looking jarring in a bad way? Most films are shot at 4k or higher resolution now. 

I wonder how the X-T30 can be so sharp at 1/50 @ F3.5 with an APS-C sensor. 

Is this some kind of processing ? Are big cameras like RED or ARRI sharp like that too at 1/50 ? I guess so, since the sensor is FF and modern cinema lens super fast and sharp... How do they achieve a soft film look then ?

--

found an interesting list here https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/cameras-lens-2019-oscar-contenders-best-cinematography-1202019782/

Seems like "vintage lenses in a modern housing" is a thing. I'm not surprised. It's the same in audio, you get a more pleasing sound with more character from vintage / tube microphones than super clean ones straight into a super clean soundcard.

2 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Whatever looks and works best for you, and yeah, for a lot of people that is Canon.

Thats fair, but the XT3 is under $1200 used and is phenomenal in 4k.

Thats why i would love to see a sample! So much easier than describing it. It could be as simple as auto shutter speed (especially if the video you posted was indicative of your issue) or it could even be a one-in-a-million bug with your camera. But if you are happy with the M50 then the issue is moot.

i can't share a sample since all my tests involve my kids and wife. I've look at them again, the X-T30 is still very sharp at 1/50, whereas the Canon with the 18-55 lens has more "motion blur". I might have used the term jitter but i don't think it's true. I still get the feeling the way it handles motion is different than the canon. It reminds me of the A6000, but this one has some artifacts due to the weird codec it uses iirc. I doubt i would have been happy with 1/30 or 1/40, i tried it a while ago on my canon and sony A6000 and wasn't pleased with the result (yes i know) and i have other issues with the xt-30 as i've said earlier.

I use VisionColor (not free) with contrast -2, sharpness to minimum, saturation at zero. 

my issue with the motion on the xt30 might not be rolling shutter (though it surely doesn’t help), I just can’t describe it properly, my English has its limits.

10 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

It's still possible that there is something else going on, but it is sounding like rolling shutter is the issue.

I am not aware of any measurements of the XT30's rolling shutter and haven't used it myself, but the Sony a6xxx cameras have terrible rolling shutter in 4k. If RS is indeed what you are seeing, then the XT3 is the best 4k APS-C option, aside from the modern FF cameras in their APS-C crop mode (Z6, S1, A73). Most 1080p modes have better RS, so it's probable that the t6i is faster and would explain why you liked that camera's motion better. Did you try comparing 1080p vs. 4k on your XT30 and seeing if that solves the motion issues?

If you are okay with HD video, then the Samsung NX1 can be found very cheap. It's still a top-class APS-C photography camera, though unfortunately a dead system.

The GH5 and especially the GH5s have good RS, but you'd need a speed booster for APS-C framing. They have nice chunky grips and are comfortable to hold. There really aren't many good APS-C hybrids out there, to be honest. XT3 is awesome, but Canon and Sony continue to have high RS, and the NX1 is simply outdated.

Thanks. I didn't try the X-T30 at 1080p (i was really hoping to switch to 4K). It looks good on dpreview https://***URL removed***/reviews/fujifilm-x-t30-review/8 . But i had other issues with the camera : i thought the auto-iso realtime transitions were too harsh / stepped, the kit lens was noisy (the canon STM are completely silent), the surprising lack of custom user "picture profile", which forced me to use FLOG + a custom LUT, the not so great user interface, still  much better than sony (awful) but i prefer the canon one, and most importantly i prefer Canon's color science...  

So i think i'm going to stick to 1080p and try a Canon M50 with a (discontinued) 18-55 STM lens (not a fan of 15-45). Its 1080p seems sharper than the T6i. We'll see.

This whole thing made me realize we all trash Canon for their lack of real upgrade in the video department for too long, but their stuff still holds up when you really look in the details. 

Hopefully things will evolve in a few year and 4K will mature a bit. Right now unless you spend a lot it seems like it's always gonna be a compromise.

On 11/10/2019 at 4:49 PM, Inazuma said:

Here's a video comparing the XT30's 4k at 1/50th and 1/1600th shutter speed. 

 

Thanks. Rolling shutter is worse than I thought at 1/50, might be why the motion looks strange. 

Skin tones can look weird indeed in Provia or Astia, that’s why I used F-Log

Except it still  has the same unnatural high shutter speed look at 1/50, with rolling shutter making things worse, and you get banding under some led lights which never occurred with the canon.

Some users have actual EXPERIENCE with said cameras while some just endlessly read reviews and forums, just follow the hype and think they help. Yes it’s a great camera for you tubers, for a video look, but not for those aiming an analog film look.

Show me your « filmic » footage with analog like 24p motion shot on the xt30 and A6000 if you want to prove me wrong .

not my video, maybe not 1/50 but just look how it looks when she moves quickly.

who ´s the troll ? Anyway, I’m out.

10 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

That's my point, I can't help at all if I don't know what you are seeing. It's not second guessing at all, I'm trying to figure out what exactly the issue is.

It's literally in the first post, why would i need to repeat ? Why not telling me which camera is the best under 1500$ right off the bat ? I know a lot of people like the A6000 and X-T30 and probably some of their users reading this thread are unhappy i don't like their camera. If you think they make great footage with great motion cadence and i'm wrong, fine, i really don't care.

9 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Also would be interested to know if it is more to your liking shoot 24p at 30-40 shutter. Another fellow on here just posted how he shoots 1/40 1/30 shutter a lot on his GH5 which gives it a more film look, in his eyes at least.  
 

I did some tests lowering the shutter speed and while i didn't record them to really precisely compare to 1/50, what i've seen in the live view looked very similar. Again, i think the lower 1080p resolution + the mushy look of the Canon + the bigger darker blurrier 18-55 lens probably helps hide some of the motion artefacts.

This is probably what separates DSLR from expensive dedicated 4K video cameras... They don't have to translate a say 24MP sensor to 3840x2160 in realtime with a modest processor, and their software is more optimized.

2 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

We aren't sure what the stuttering that you are seeing is, and therefore can't tell you which cameras (if any) don't have it.

Then how could you help at all ? Nothing against you but this common practice of always second guessing the OP on web forums isn't always fruitful.

There's something unnatural about the motion cadence of the A6000 and the X-T30, and all the tests and settings change i did couldn't help it. Believe me i was pissed.

i have one but really that's not the point of the thread

28 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

If you like Canon though why not upgrade to an EOS R or a 5D MK3-4

EOS rebel is as big as i'm willing to carry around traveling with kids, and the price point is right for me too  

3 hours ago, frontfocus said:

It might just be, that you don't see small defects with the low resolution of the Canon. 

probably also true that the lower actual resolution of the canon between (720p and 1080p iirc) helps to hide some nasty things...

maybe type X-T30 stutter. It's just that even at 1/50 in 24 fps you it just feels like you're at a way higher shutter speed for some reason. believe me i've looked at every settings, just like on the A6000. it's subtle but it's definitely there, it pulls me out personally.

again a lot of people don't mind it, it's a matter of taste. A lot of videos on youtube with "filmic" look find people go crazy over in the comments section - i find it just awful and overprocessed. Same for photography, some people like overprocessed HDR photography with saturation boosted to 11. I like a soft analog film look whereas people love a more modern one...

Hi

Just made my own experiment with photoshop, with "F-Log to Flog rec.709" baked in + a smooth S-Curve that won't crush the highlights and shadows + vibrance set to 50%. It's a softer look that Eterna, with more details and colors preserved. To me it also gives a more filmic feel than Provia or Astia, which give more of a "video" look to me.

Professional graders probably won't care but maybe that could help someone. Guess it's also compatible with the XT-2, XT-3 ...

F-LOG :

S-CURVE :

ETERNA :

Enjoy

X-T30 Flog soft film.CUBE

Thanks

I don't pan or move, i like static shots, and when comparing the T6i to the X-T30 or the A6300 when shooting moving subject, it's very obvious. It is well documented in other threads, just type the name of the camera + jittery or stutter in google. Some people don't see it or don't mind though, i can't help but notice it. My computer is quite a beast and plays 4k perfectly.

About the white balance : i make family movies so i stick to auto white balance. Again, the canon still makes pleasing colors even if the WB is off.

I'm not a fan of Eterna, it's great for some use but i prefer a more colourful profile for what i do. I've made my own LUTs for the X-t30, with the F-Log to FLog_BT.709 baked in. I might share them here.

Hi

I shoot family movies in 24 fps 1/50 shutter with my T6i using the CineVision profile. It's canon "mush" but it still looks sweet.

I bought a Sony A6000 as an upgrade to my T6i. I was disappointed with the colors (especially ugly in low light), and felt the motion was weird / jittery. Sold it.

Just bought a X-T30, it's much better than the Sony, but again, the motion was weird / stuttering, and under some LED lights i get some banding which i never had with my T6i. The skin tones are really magenta (like the Sony) though custom grading using F-Log helps. I've also realized i don't like small / compact 15-45mm zoom lens, for some reason i feel they make the footage look like a smartphone video... I prefer my canon kit lens 18-55mm, which does not produce any noise when autofocusing.... You guessed it : i'm returning the X-T30 and i'm bummed. 

Is there an affordable APS-C DSLR with good motion / acceptable rolling shutter / good color science (especially for skin tones and especially in low light) / a good 18mm lens / 200 mbits or more ? i guess it would be around 1500$ ? Does it exist ?

Thanks  

i'm shooting family movies. I want a natural look, i'm not looking for "retro" or "hollywood", i'm looking for natural colors but with a slight film / movie feel. I try to make honest short 5 minutes movies each months, no music, no corny editing, no zoom or much camera moves, just reality, with ups and downs.

thanks

yes i didn't know about the 70D, it sure is a good dslr with dual pixel for the price 2nd hand. But i was interested in mirrorless cause it's smaller and lighter. 

the Fuji X-t20 looks nice and sharper, i've never heard about it before.

Thanks everyone for your input. Seems like venting out made me think again about the A6000.

Since the Auto White Balance is atrocious (and i really mean it), i decided to stick to manual white balance. After a bunch of tests, 5500K seems to be the ticket, and i'm rediscovering this camera. I'm now messing with the Exposure Compensation, a little boost at +1 seems to do wonders too (it might be a bit too much though).

I think i'd loose to much money re-selling it, and now that i've tasted the wonders or mirrorless cameras, i'm not sure i'm ready to go back to a big dslr...

I'm using XAVCS, but i still find it has some weird compression artifacts. Canon still has better colors, but Sony is a bit sharper and has more dynamic range.

REALLY wish i realized sooner the auto white balance is ****ed...

I've got my eyes on the Canon M6 though.