noone

1 hour ago, Yurolov said:

This is not a professional tool. I'm sorry, but if it overheats then it cannot be used in a professional setting. Will be fine for youtubers and people doing stuff for personal hobby and such. But not a serious paid professional. 

The amount of hypocrisy in this forum is bewildering. Everyone giving it a pass left and right. Yes, it matters if it overheats only in direct sun lol. If I am shooting anywhere outside there is a good chance I will be in the direct sun, unless I confine myself to shade. 

I do not think anybody is giving it a blanket pass.

Just something very different to the Canon.

It isn't they overheat as ANY small camera that uses that much power with those sensor sizes and does not have an active cooling system will have a point it overheats.

The issue with the Canon is once it overheats it seems to stay over heated for longer than is good and that even shooting stills reduces shooting time.

If all you DO need with the Sony is an umbrella or anything just to keep it out of direct sun for external heat, that is fine in my book and Sony seems to deal with the internal heat build up better between these two. 

To me, it is as if comparing a litre of boiling water in a thermos (Canon) VS a litre of boiling water in a glass bottle (Sony).     After an hour the thermos is still going to have hot water, the glass bottle will be room temp.

Take the two out into direct sun after that hour and the water in the glass will get warmer while the water in the thermos will still be the same...now if you apply another heat source internally (while leaving them in direct sun), the water in both will get hotter and the glass   will also have the effect of the sun added to the internal heat. ...but the glass will cool down again quicker too again.

17 minutes ago, deezid said:

The A7sIII overheats even faster it seems.

The A7sIII overheated more quickly in exactly the same lighting, so it's indeed worse than the R5 even.

BUT Only in the limited circumstance of direct sun (probably a direct heat source) so all you have to do is not have it in direct sun (umbrella or anything to keep it out) and then it will work.

I think it is also going to cool down faster.

As i said above, the Canon must be well insulated and so the heat can not get out and the heat build up comes from within the camera and once it stops, it takes a long while to cool down (because it is so well insulated).

The Sony works fine it seems when not in direct sun so the heat from within the camera is handled better and prbably because the camera is less insulated, the heat gets out faster (but that also means it gets in from an external source too).

It could just be as someone said Sony is being tricked into shutting down by the increased temp from outside.

It may well be that all the Canon needs is a couple of holes drilled in the body?    Maybe the MK ii Canon can have a weather sealed door that can be opened up to let heat out?

9 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

So should I get the R6 or the A7sIII guys? Im confused. Tell me how to spend my money

Stills focused generally-  R6

Stills focused low light-  A7siii

Video only- A7siii if you take longer clips in sometimes warm temps, otherwise, flip a coin.

Hybrid - Flip a coin ( A7siii for me but others will differ)

2 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Sony is also kicking recording of to Atomos recorder to avoid overheating issues.  Apples to Apples.

What does the R5 do out to an Atomos recorder?

 

Not so sure about that.  I think Canon is  processing higher data rates internally compared to the A7S3. 

But that does not explain that the Canon overheats both outdoors in direct sun and indoors while the Sony may vary between direct sun and otherwise.

For something to let heat out, it usually means it can get in as well so a camera that dissipates heat better is most likely going to let it IN as well.   

A heat sink can only take so much before it is no longer going to work unless it can get out of the camera.

The Sony might be getting pretty close to overheating  in some modes without actually doing it and adding a heat source like direct  sun could be just enough to shut it down.

That would also mean it will work again sooner though.

No matter, I think the Sony is going to be just fine in general use and you may only need a hat for it and not a fridge.

Besides, it is a camera for vampires and other low light low life (like me) and so not for the sun!

20 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Winner winner chicken dinner. 

It sounds like this camera has more traditional overheating problems, such as when in direct sun. 

The odd thing about the Canon is it seems to overheat at the exact same time regardless of direct sun or indoors. 

Sony needs to get rid of the low light NR though. Thats a killer. 

That kind of makes sense.

The Sony handles heat from within the camera far better but not so good with heat from an external source while the Canon is lousy at dealing with the internal heat but better at heat coming from outside??

The Canon must be very well insulated which would be a plus for anything but heat build up inside from using it.

Of course it also probably means the Sony will cool down a lot quicker and be usable again earlier.

Another thought, if I am right, that would mean the Tilta thing to cool down the R5 might be BETTER on the Sony.

While Bloom says he was paid by Sony to make the two videos  linked in this thread I still think he is happy to give warts and all.

He had it for a while and that he says "This is a FANTASTIC camera, the image is stunning, it is a joy to use and I have done very extensive overheating tests (again in my review) that will impress the crap out of you!"   pretty much puts to bed an issue on overheating as an issue for me (though of course want to see the tests).

This is MY camera (in 2021 or 2022 more likely unless I find a couple of grand in the couch).

1 minute ago, Danyyyel said:

For 1000 usd yes, for 3.500, I don't think so. For half the price you can get very good FF 24 megapixel camera. Everything is not about resolution, but everything start at a certain threshold.

I shoot a lot in low light so i would rather have 9 stops of DR for stills at ISO 25600 and 12mp than 24mp and 7.

To each their own.

6 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

You mean for 0.1% of photography. I mean pixel shift is only good for still subject like architecture. This camera with its low megapixel is very good for video, but not photography. At least for professional use, it is hard to sell 12 megapixel in 2020.

It IS hard to sell it to photographers but I still think it is not really an issue for the vast majority of uses.

I think this will be a much better camera for stills than people are giving credit for.

An a7s with pdaf is a camera made for me (shooting mostly stills and an little though increasing video).

27 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Yeah, but why was the overheat signal coming on after 1 hour of photo - then switching to video?

I think its the IBIS like Ajay was saying.... can you turn it off??? Well.... I guess... we may have a dud here if we can't turn off IBIS. 

Pretty sure they mean overheating for video (it says how long you have?).     After all you can record the lower quality without stopping so I can not imagine of you do not shoot video it would ever overheat just shooting stills.

We should know soon enough anyway.

1 hour ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

But will it also overheat while taking pictures all day?
Imagine doing a wedding and taking like 10k pictures and using the camera for 12+ hours in the summer.
Can Canon guarantee me the camera will not overheat in photo mode? 
Looks to me like it might even stop working in photo mode when pushing it...

I doubt it.  

It should be fine (great even) as a stills photography camera.

Video, not so much other than if you can use it for the short periods it can safely record at higher quality.

Who knows, maybe Sony will sell you a fridge to keep your Canon camera in?

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

Looks like a really good design that's more than a fan.   I would suspect that they had a heads up on Canon's heating issue and had time to design this the right way.

QUESTION:  Now is this a better cooling system design then what the S1H has built internally?

I will guess this takes away all heating issues with the R5.  Fan noise might be the same as the S1H also.

 

I'm not an expert but all the negative and exhausting testing reviews about overheating should eliminate any class action lawsuits.

 

Nah it is just a peltier system I think.      Just like in the little cooler I posted about.     They DO work but not THAT well for cooling things like food/drinks INSIDE them so i would expect they would work less effectively for trying to cool a sealed black box on the outside.

They usually can warm food too as they can be reversed.     

I have gone for periods using a thermo electric cooler as my "fridge".     Unlike a fridge they have to be on all the time to work properly so they are not anywhere near as efficient as a proper compressor fridge though use little electricity.

They also do not get as cold as a proper fridge but can still cool down a reasonable amount below ambient temperature.

I was also experimenting using one with 12 volt solar panels directly (no battery) and it seemed ok.

I think as far as this goes, you would be MUCH MUCH better off buying a 12 volt thermo electric cooler to put it in between uses and likely be much cheaper (or even better though much dearer still a 12 volt camping compressor fridge).

The 30 min limit for 120 4k seems to be camera limited.    I wonder if Sony will allow an override like they do with some of their cameras?     Given all the cameras that had 30 minute limits for tax purposes not so long ago I do not see it as an issue unless once it DOES over heat it takes for ever to work again or if the time is reduced by shooting photos before hand  (how I would use it) taking hundreds of photos and then shooting short videos the length of a song (though not much 120p).

in short, if these specs are true, it is a camera designed for ME ...now if only the price was!

59 minutes ago, Django said:

So A7S3 specs have leaked and plot twist: it will also overheat and has a thermal cutoff..

" One focus of the camera is video recording. Unlike Canon with the EOS R5, Sony does not use 8K for video, but continues to use 4K, which is said to achieve the best results so far with an alpha camera. The sensor’s 12 MP resolution enables a full-pixel readout without pixel binning and without crop up to 4K / 60p. In this setting, the recording limit should be one hour without overheating – the EOS R5 only manages 30 minutes at 4K / 60p. The video recording of the Alpha 7S III in 4K / 120p mode is limited to this length – by the way, a slight crop is used (1.1x).S "

i.e.

A7S3 FF no crop 4K60p is rated at 60mn & 4K120p = 30mn

Better on paper than R5 but how will it play out in real world situations? hopefully we get an answer tomorrow with the hands-on.

 

The bigger issue will be how long you have to wait AFTER it overheats (and also if shooting stills beofre hand reduces recording time.).

How much are they charging for those Tilta things?

I cut of the top of my small drinks cooler (just have to tidy it up so a camera fits flat on the metal plate).

It is after all just a small fan with a peltier cooler and while it hardly cools a drink it does actually work (and it still works upside down if you put it flat on a camera and hold it to it with a rubber band).

At least now I can use it to cool slightly things other than a single drinks can.

Have to see if I can find a cheap thermometer now to test it with my RX100 IV.

1 minute ago, Video Hummus said:

🤦‍♂️lots of dopes there. I feel sorry for them.

I have not been a member there for many years but I do like to go visit for a laugh sometimes and there are some members who are serious photographer/scientists that you can learn a lot from (not in THAT particular forum so much though).

17 minutes ago, Django said:

^ those already exist: EOS R/RP.

Yeah but I think this is a MUCH better stills camera. than the RP and probably a fair bit better than the R.     It does still shoot 4k after shooting stills, just not HQ so maybe they could leave that there in a lite version.

The R forum on a website that should not be named seems to have a lot of people in deep denial.

It really is a shame!     As a stills photography camera it looks really nice.

I think Canon needs to immediately release a R5L (light) or maybe R5C (cool) without anything major for video  or even if they just leave it with really lovely full HD and that way at least the major part of its target will be happy (and the price should be a lot less).

23 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

My use probably (the opposite of ‘serious’ video use) and right now a very strong contender.

Hybrid photo/video wedding capture where I rarely shoot anything longer than 10 seconds, ie, typically around 150x 10 second clips over a 10 hour day (plus around 3000 still images) spread over 2 cameras. 

Camcorder for long stuff such as ceremony & speeches.

A pair of either with 28-70 f2 and 85 f2 could be a perfect match.

But it’s an expensive solution for me and currently ranked third behind Nikon & Fuji so will see where we are in Spring 2021.

I actually mean what solution to be able to use the R5/R6.

From what i have seen, your particular use might be about the worst for an R5.

It seems if you shoot a lot of stills, you may not be able to shoot 4k video and a wedding photog is ALWAYS shooting.

Again, it isn't that it overheats but that after it does, it may well be near useless for quite a while (hope to be proven wrong).

Just an academic exercise for me but interesting.

I am going to go ahead and cut up my little peltier cooler but need a small saw I think as it is a tougher little thing than I expected.

Being serious

The more I think about it, just cutting the top off of my peltier drink cooler so you just rest the camera on the small round metal cooling plate would be worth a try and only costs a couple of dollars.   I got mine from a charity store for next to nothing.

USB powered

HMM, Myabe I should cut the top of and try with my RX100iv using 4k (5 minute limit) a few times?).

Not being serious.

Will you need a permit to use a R5/R6 in Australia in bushfire season?    Will there be advisories to stop using them on high fire danger days like there are for farm machinery?  

The biggest problem seem to me is not that they overheat in pretty much any 4k situation but rather the length of time needed to cool down or how long second and subsequent recording will last.

That is what is going to make what looks like a pair of otherwise very nice excellent stills cameras of much much less use for more serious video.

Ok, they are what they are, so how would you use them for more serious video (IE not my use)?   What real practical solutions are there?

I can imagine that somewhere on China right now, there are people making small camera size fridges (I would LOVE one as my normal food fridge).

You would have to watch condensation though  (more so with Sony).     Would you use a real compressor fridge or just a peltier cooler?

Build a couple one for a single camera but also one for two cameras of a R5 size and shape, that way you could use three cameras with two cooling while using one or for resting between use since the heat builds up anyway as long as they are turned on it seems.

Just a larger more powerful one of these (this cost me a couple of buck and while it doesn't work all that well for cooling drinks it is more for keeping them cool).

Seems ridiculous I know but (other than simply recalling them all or not using them for the jobs they are designed for, there has to be SOME solution.

BTW if anyone knows of a micro compressor fridge that is not too expensive. let me know.

32 minutes ago, Django said:

..but it’s the video side that’s quite the breakthrough for Canon shooters (overheating aside).

If i were a stills only shooter, I’m not quite sure I’d feel the urge to upgrade from an EOS R/RP.

Canon are clearly aiming R5/R6 to hybrid shooters and EOS Cinema line users such as myself looking for B-cams.

I know it seems quite the opposite of how it should be.

Many of those getting them WILL be stills shooters who are increasingly doing video but I do think until real people start using them and complaining or not, there will be a massive screeching halt in sales (to what they would otherwise have been but will still be plenty sold to guinea pigs, Beta testers and the "I just want them, I do not care about video" brigade).

IF as I expect, they are a fail due to heat for video, they will still be very good stills cameras much like the Sony and Nikon and Panasonic mirrorless FF cameras.     RP is quite a bit lower all around (but I still actually like it and considered trying to find a way to get one) and the R is the test bed.

I think Canon just wants to sell them to anyone who can pay for one and does  not really care WHY you want it.

3 hours ago, MeanRevert said:

The SteadyShot in the RX100 series isn’t very good so if that’s what they’re using, Canon has them beat in that regard.

It isn't anywhere near Olympus current camera good but I do not have any issues with it in my RX100 iv.

About the same as some other older IBIS/IS cameras I have had (Pentax, Panasonic, Fuji).

Even if the A7siii only gets a couple of stops extra that will still be welcome though the original A7s is the camera I have had that LEAST needs IBIS thanks to decent high ISO.   

The better it is the more useful for video  though.

1 hour ago, Django said:

I love it these cameras aren’t even out yet the EOSHD jury is already out and the tribe has spoken:

“Canon are done for video”

” R5/R6 are lemons”

While I agree the overheating issues are a growing concern and may affect sales, I still think both cameras will be a hit and the IQ in the HQ modes should be amazing.

It seems that in order to overcome the overheating issues, Sony had to abandon oversampling, quad-bayer sensor and who knows what else.. always some kind of compromise with small hybrid cameras!

Anyways, I think we still have to wait for more in-depth real world tests and official A7S3 announcement before making such bold statements as the above..

They will sell like (sorry) hotcakes to stills photographers but I think for video, people might be much more cautious.

I know a couple of people who intend getting them.

5 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

It is a disaster of a review. Purely anecdotal evidence with no actual numbers. I think the most we can take out is it can't be used on professional jobs at all in high temperatures (summer in Japan). 

 

Just saw a news article a few minutes ago about wild fires in Siberia and temps in the 30s (celsius).   Maybe it needs to be used NORTH of the Arctic circle?