squig

Woohoo 2 more 8bit cameras. I'm so excited!

Not really cameras? Lulz

I overlooked the BMPCC when it came it because it was around the time Magic Lantern hit raw pay dirt and I was as happy as a pig in shit with the 5DMK3. Aliasing and sensor size were issues for me then, but the Mosaic filter and speed booster have solved that. I wonder whether many of the people who think the BMPCC is lacking in resolution have ever filmed an actress. It's likely I'll be shooting a feature next year with a a pair of not really cameras; not just because they're cheap, but because they're that good (and perfect for POV and long gimbal shots).

The BMMCC does look like an evolved BMPCC and I actually like that it doesn't have an LCD; the "cam head" concept is good for narrative work. The BMMCC is going to look wild with an Iscorama attached.

No need to transcode Magic Lantern MLV files on a Mac with Resolve, just use MLVS http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=13152.0

Thx mate. An offer too good to refuse. Just got mine; great screen, way nicer than my AC7. Most of my writing calls for low key shots so the LUTs are really going to cut down on the guesswork. I've been resisting the temptation to grab a BMPCC, how's it working out for you? Any issues?

Tough crowd.

Imagine a world where knowledge wasn't drowned out by opinion.

@ZachGoodwin Lulz! I may have misinterpreted your post. I've copped a bit of the new kid in school treatment in this thread, so I've been a bit on the defensive.

@TheRenaissanceMan I didn't mention anything about pushing the BMPCC in post because I haven't done it myself, but yeah that's what I've been hearing. Try pushing the A7s in post and watch it turn to mush. The 5DMK3 raw doesn't like underexposure either.

@Ebrahim  Thx for the advice and the welcome mate. I'm not a newbie here however, me & Andrew have been ranting to each other about cameras since... before the dementia. And I have been potty trained; I was a mod at cinema5D and Magic Lantern.

I've got a 5DMK3 (raw) and an A7s, my current "DSLR test shooter" tools of trade.

There's a Samyang 14mm f/2.8, I haven't tried it but most of the Samyangs are pretty good. There's a 16mm f/2 too. I haven't used the 11-16mm much but it has a very good rep. Duclos sell a rehoused cine version for a mere $3500.

Thx for that informative contribution to the discussion mate. You must be a real professional.

Tokina 11-16mm

My workflow is backwards? Lulz!

Sure I could have shot that @ f/2.8 and 1600 ISO but the background would be OOF and I didn't want it OOF. A smaller sensor has a deeper DOF which allows you shoot at wider apertures, that's where bigger sensors lose their light capturing advantage in the majority of shooting scenarios. If you only shoot landscapes obviously that wouldn't be the case. Sensor specs are one thing, camera and shot setup are another thing entirely.

@Ebrahim Saadawi If films were all shot at infinity focus a full frame sensor would be much better in low light than an s16 sensor, but that's not how we shoot films. Maybe you're not understanding what the speedbooster does. The speedbooster reduces the crop factor from 3x to 1.75x. Here's an example: I shot this with a 5DMK3 with a 24mm lens @ f/5.6 @ 6400 ISO. I could shoot it with a BMD pocket & get the same FOV and DOF with a 14mm lens @f/2.8 800 ISO with a speedbooster.

This really sold me on the low light ability of the pocket https://vimeo.com/80348441

The other thing I didn't mention is dynamic range. @ 800 ISO you've got 13 stops to play with on the pocket/micro cine. Matching DOF on the 5DMK3 (vs speedboosted pocket/micro cine) you've got about 9 stops of latitude (raw 6400 ISO).

@Don Kotlos Yeah, when you take the 2 stop DOF difference and speedbooster (1 & 2/3 stops) into account, 800 ISO on the pocket/micro cine @ f/2.8 is the equivalent of 10,000 ISO on a full frame camera @ f/5.6. And 800 ISO on the pocket is a hell of a lot cleaner than 10,000 ISO is on a 5dMK3 raw or an A7s (with more latitude). Shoot at f/2 and you're matching 20,000 ISO full frame @ f/4.

I didn't consider the pocket when it came out because it didn't shoot raw initially, it had aliasing/moire issues, and the small sensor meant investing in a bunch of fast M4/3 lenses. Now with the speedbooster, mosaic filter, LUTs (smallHD 501), and raw recording, the pocket/micro cine look like THE DSLR replacement.

I was merely responding to an insulting post in kind; I'm not Jesus, I don't always have patience for trolls. I stand by everything I've said, and when I get my hands on the micro cine the test results will speak for themselves.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't repost my quotes out of context.

I reckon SmallHD will redesign the sidefinder to fix the ghosting issue, which would make the 501/502 a great EVF for the micro cine too

Given that BMD are busy rolling out the Ursa mini 4.6k, and Australians spend most of January at the beach; I don't think we're gonna see the micro cine for at least another month or three. They haven't enabled the global shutter on the 4.6k yet; global shutter firmware bugs could be holding up both cameras. Better that BMD take the time to get it right than turn us into a crash test zombie horde.

Huge difference in DOF between BMD prod at @ f/2.8 and 5D @ f/1.4.

Well without a Speedbooster you'd still shoot at f/2.8 to match DOF, but you'd have to shoot at 1600 ISO because you wouldn't have the extra 1 & 2/3 stops light advantage of the Speedbooster. As soon as I get my hands on the BM micro cine I'll do some low light tests vs the 5DMK3 and A7s.

If you think that's a ridiculous comparison chances are you don't know WTF you're talking about. Name one scene from a feature film shot full frame at f/1.4? No focus puller is that good, & no cinematographer is that crazy. About the only time I'd shoot at f/1.4 is a wide establishing shot at night. ONE SHOT! Troll harder.

This whole idea that the pocket/micro cine isn't good in low light is misconceived. The 5DMK3 is widely known for being a good low light camera but in reality it's no better than the BM cameras. The highest usable ISO on the 5D raw is 6400 (and you must ETTR) digital gain kicks in @ 1600 ISO and noise will be a problem beyond that if you're not careful. To get a good filmic DOF I normally set the aperture to f/5.6. To get the same shot on a pocket/micro cine with a speedbooster I'd be shooting at f/2.8 to match DOF and I'd gain 1 and 2/3 stops of light from the speedbooster which means I could get the shot with the pocket/micro set at 800 ISO. The noise on the BM cameras @ 800 ISO looks a lot more filmic than the ugly chroma fixed pattern noise on the 5D @ 6400 ISO. Having not shot with the BMs this is theoretical but the math suggests the BMs have a low light advantage over the 5D in most shooting scenarios.

The A7s/II is widely considered to be the best low light camera but the reality is in post it's no better than the 5D raw @ 6400 ISO. You can shoot at higher ISOs with the A7s/II but if you don't ETTR it gets really ugly. 

I haven't pre-ordered but I'm gonna pick one up as soon as I can. The only concern I have is fan noise.

No mosaic filter Zak?

After a year with the A7s and 5DMK3 raw I concur; 8bit is a gyp. I spend at least twice as long working with the Sony files to make them look half as good as the ML raw. I'm only holding onto it to shoot production stills. The A7sII does look a little better but for twice the resale value of an A7s I'll pass. Got my eye on the Blackmagic Micro Cinema camera.

If you shoot magic lantern with 2.35:1 aspect ratio the rolling shutter on the 5DMK3 is under 14ms. I shoot 2.35:1 and crop to 2.39:1 because there's a a couple of dodgy lines at the top and bottom of the frame.

You still got the 5D jcs? Would be interesting to see how magic lantern stacks up against the C300 II.

8bit in cameras that can shoot 4k with 13 stops of dynamic range is a joke. An A7sII costs double the resale value of an A7s in Aus. Is it twice the camera? No way, you can't even accurately focus manually, lulz. I'm hanging for the Blackmagic micro cinema camera, 8bit and rolling shutter is so 2007. In the meantime magic lantern delivers.

Yeah s-log is a real pain in the arse to grade, that's where film convert comes in really handy. Nailing exposure with s-log is critical, raw is more forgiving. Andrew try film convert Arri log c profile on the s-log 3 shots. Worked well on your first shot of the couple standing next to the pole with some minor tweaking. Is the banding just as bad in 1080p mode and 4k pro res?

It didn't cause a total or even partial eclipse on the A7s but it's the same kind of sensor/processing issue. Try shooting a dimmable light and see if you can figure out how much illumination triggers the black hole.

The edge highlight aliasing occurs in 24p and 25p modes on the A7s.

I pointed the A7s (25p) at a few thousand lux just to be sure. The only black spots are the ones I burned into my retinas.

Looks like the same blue/black highlight aliasing issue I discovered on the A7s. Sony don't consider it a problem apparently. There's no way around it on the A7s, it occurs in every shooting mode and with external recorders. It doesn't occur shooting raw stills on the A7s.