Andrew Reid

Basically the timer kicks in whenever 8K or 4K HQ is enabled in the menus and there is a live-view feed on the LCD or EVF (even if it is hidden behind a menu overlay). That's probably just how they implemented the cripple clock in firmware. When the screen is off it probably disables the mechanism they are using to calculate run times... either by error, or on purpose to satisfy Atomos. That the scorching hot ambient temps and black alloy casing absorbing so much external heat don't impact the timer, has to tell you something!

How can it "overheat" just switched on in the Wifi menu, but do 4K HQ via HDMI just fine? The processing loads surely are not higher in the Wifi menu compared to outputting 8K to the DIGIC X image processor, processing it, resampling it to 4K 10bit and sending it out to an HDMI recorder? So either the HDMI mode bypasses the cripple clock accidentally (a bug in the cripple hammer). or Atomos persuaded them to turn the timer off? Nothing else makes sense.

They permit long recording via HDMI for same reason they allow long recording in 4K pixel binned. It is probably pixel binned 4K via HDMI. Yet to test myself. Anyway, if the camera allows itself to get very warm from external recording, it would shut down. Ask yourself why it suddenly throws a wobbly when you insert an SD card? It is doing all that work for HDMI recording, casing mega hot to the touch in direct sun, then suddenly you ask of it to do a basic 4K H.265 compression that it does anyway in the normal continuous 4K non-HQ mode and all overheating hell breaks lose?!? C'mon. The artificial nature of the timers is a huge part of what is going on. It could even be all patent related. 8K RAW for long recording times may result in RED knocking on door for more money. The majority of the processing is in the first 4 stages of the image processing pipeline and happen regardless of whether you use an external recorder or not. Pipeline is probably something like this: Sensor rolling shutter Onboard sensor A/D conversion Debayering of 8K RAW sensor data / Downsampling to 4K Conversion from RGB to YUV Compression to H.264 or H.265 So just switching off the dedicated hardware H.265 encoder to 4K does not magically reduce heat. That encoder is doing 4K 10bit 422 in the non-HQ mode as well. So logically deduce what is going on in the different modes... With HDMI recorder: 8K sensor readout (or maybe not)... debayer... resampling... conversion to YUV... RUNS FOR HOURS! Without HDMI recorder: Exact same process. But add the H.265 compression that happens in the non-heat restricted mode anyway... Suddenly, camera is screaming OVERHEATING!!? C'mon.

So to clarify... Are you sure HDMI recording is actually 4K HQ oversampled from 8K sensor readout? Or is it pixel binned? Please do the frame side by side quality check. HDMI recording only goes for long if you deactivate live-view? Or does it go for long runs with the mirrored display too? HDMI goes for long without a card in the slot? What about with one? Please try to use an SD card for testing, as this shuts people up from claiming it's the hot CFexpress that's the issue.

Shutting down when the card door is opened is long standing Canon camera practice. The 5D2 does it. The 5D3 does it. It is to prevent data loss, if you pull card out of slot whilst accidentally recording to it without noticing. Horshack: "Also, the fact the camera allows near-unlimited recording over HDMI argues against intentional crippling since external recorders are common for professional video use" If anything this proves that the camera sensor isn't the main heat source, that it can go for ages, and that the processor can downsample the 8K sensor readout to 4K HQ on the fly, and put it out over HDMI for hours.

It doesn't need it. You should just be able to turn it off and the extremely thin slice of silicon & metal will cool down by itself from whatever it couldn't handle... Supposably 90C... To ambient temp or a comfortable for any CPU 45C... In less than a minute, if not even quicker, we're talking a few seconds to go from 90 to 60. Anyone have a PC? Open the CPU temp monitor and see how fast the temps fall once you stop rendering video in an NLE. And they fall even faster if you pull the power completely.

Ah the good old EOSHD is not legitimate campaign. I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of it was bot generated. DPReview still up their tricks hey? Yeah, probably a reason they haven't run a clickbait article based on our findings yet with a tiny little 'Source' link at the bottom.

Great good for you! Do us a favour and read what I find when I use it. I feel you have your blinkers on. We don't all just turn the camera on for a few seconds at a time. Do us a favour and realise that the camera overheats in the menus or just doing stills in live-view. Overheats as far as a complete shut down once you go over into video mode. But yes... Video compression blah blah blah, data intensive blah blah.

Yeah. Yet still people are claiming the sensor gets too hot?

Shall I pack 10 cans per shoot or just 1?

Posted 2 days ago on front page 🙂 https://www.eoshd.com/news/chinese-user-modifies-canon-eos-r5-to-improve-heat-management-but-finds-artificial-firmware-time-limit/

Please post it here: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/46306-canon-eos-r5-r6-overheating-discussion-all-in-one-place/page/43/#comments

What about plugging HDMI cable in at the first moment the camera starts, using it via HDMI for 1 hour for 4K HQ, then put a card in. I'll add it to the list of things to try. Have the Ninja V sat here doing nothing.

It's not a plastic box though. It's alloy

I think they'd make more money just putting good stuff out, to be honest. No games. If the EOS R5 is capable of longer record times in 4K HQ and 8K, just give them us. We paid for it! We get to decide how we use it. Especially as it was marketed for pro video use.

How about we turn the camera on, do nothing with it, leave it in the menus. Put it in the freezer. After 1 hour, see if the timer has ticked down to 0 mins of 8K. Who wants to see an OVERHEATED! SHUTTING DOWN! screen with frost on it?

Why does it need 25 mins in the freezer to get back to baseline temp? It defies logic. You heat a metal baking tray to 60C and try putting it in the freezer! It's cold after a minute. It may be that extreme temp changes do change the artificial timer. It's still fake though. Otherwise the camera would be ready to go again after a couple of mins in the freezer. I have officially received permission from The Girlfriend for some time with the fridge later and some frozen peas. But to be honest, writing is already on the wall as far as I'm concerned. And Jesse did not tell us how long his measurements on all the parts and camera areas took after he stopped recording 8K. So the 25 mins isn't the total time of idle off-time and even if it is, it doesn't show that the timer isn't artificially locking us out from the camera for unnecessarily long periods.

Even if it turns out that the EXIF "camera temperature" has no relation to the temperature of the DIGIC X chip, the test results still confirm fake overheat timers. Why - let me explain: 1. CDA TEK's (BTM_PIX)'s app reads the temperature inhibitors. If the EXIF temp sensor is on a separate board and is not reading the CPU core temps, it would still increase if the CPU got hotter. The CPU is the primary heat source in the camera body and heats up the entire unit. We show that the temp inhibitors toggle on over time, even as the EXIF reported temp stays level at 46C or even decreases (as well as camera body external temps to the touch). 2. After powering off an electronic device or CPU, the part dissipates most of the 90C+ heat within seconds. If opening the card door, the chipset even then has a venting hole. Hot air escapes and dissipates quickly. When I switched off the camera for 1 hour and opened the card door, removed battery and lens, the temp inhibitors were left on even after 1 hour. It is impossible for the CPU to maintain 60C+ temps (33C above ambient temperature!) in this situation with no power. 3. The temp inhibitors flag ON even when the camera is not recording. They flag ON in the Wifi menu. ON in live-view. ON during stills shooting. If these processes are causing problematic temperatures for the CPU, it should shut the camera down in stills mode, but it doesn't... it can be left on. Sure, but see my point 1 & 2 above. A separate temp sensor would not stay at 46C if a main CPU at 90C started heating the body and internal air. And heat distribution via air does not take 1 hour between a hot silicon chip and the ambient air right next to it and in/around the card slot. The Chinese heat gun shows this not to be the case, but anyway, if the sensor is the limiting part that gets too hot, it would have to shut down during an 8K (45 megapixel) photo shoot at the same time it shuts down for 8K video. Are you talking about consumer health & safety regulations regarding contact with hot surfaces? Or stability and integrity internal materials? This depends on the plastic. You can have plastic parts inside the camera that don't melt until 170C. And as for metal....Well, even solder does not melt at 46C! See? The sensor readout isn't the heat limited part. Nope. The problem occurs even with an SD card, which can be used for unlimited 4K recording in other devices without issue. They don't get very hot (as in 80C+), maybe 50C max. You can read/write for hours on an SD card in a reader so it isn't about SD card safety regulations. There are cameras like the S1H that write 6K or 4K at 400Mbit to SD cards. Higher data rates than EOS R5 4K HQ. They don't get that hot though. I know, I've tried. This is just speculative on your part I'm afraid. The Cfexpress card I have does get 'a bit warm like a cake'... but not scolding! You can use it in a device that records 4K RAW for hours. So I hardly think that there's anything about the comparatively low-bitrate 4K HQ 8bit H.264 (with CLOG disabled) on the EOS R5 that causes the Cfexpress card to heat up beyond the safety regulations. Yes they can. I agree. They owe us a full and frank explanation. In my opinion lying to customers is not a good look!

Hello Wondo Hard to say isn't it? I cannot figure out the business side of it at all. Surely the EOS R5 at 4400 euros is an important release that makes more profit overall than a more niche C200. So either it is internal politics that have played out badly, or possibly a buggy cripple algorithm. But really I do not have the answer. Canon owes us that. It could even be internal sabotage for all I know. The strangest things for me are the following facts: - Canon marketed it as 'comfortable on C300 III productions' and made a big thing about the 8K RAW, so were marketing even aware of the limitation? - The cool down times are unreasonable. After a shut down at 62C, I can leave my camera on a desk for 1 hour turned off and come back to find only 5 mins 8K. There is no chance in hell any silicon or metal stays above 60C for that period of time inside a device that has no power. I even removed the battery, took the lens off and opened the card door to vent the internals. No 'weather sealing' at play here. - There is only a small possibility that the EXIF temp is a long way off the CPU core temps. Also the Chinese guys with the heat guns were able to read the real surface temp of the chip and back of camera, which correlate closely to the EXIF temp we read from the intervalometer shots - Why go to so much effort to build this absolute cutting edge machine.... Only not to let us use it? It's a mega camera. That they saw fit to do this is so far beyond any realm of understanding. People talk about plastic melting or safety regulations... But none of it can explain why 46C after 30 mins causes the camera to shut down immediately when switched to video mode, but 46C after 2 mins allows you to record 15 mins of 8K. 46C or even 62C are so far below what is considered unsafe. The camera is not even hot to the touch. Pulling the Cfexpress card out after the max 8K recording time is up, and that is hot but not uncomfortably... all normal. It gets hotter in my ProGrade card reader.

Plastic melting point is 170C

A good reaction on Twitter: I agree with Quinn about it being a bad look. They need to at the very least come clean, answer, own up and apologise. Then fix it.

What's your recovery time like? I just had mine sat for an hour and a half, but couldn't get more than 5 min of 8K on the clock That is absurdly fake. The camera body was even cold to the touch.

Absolutely. Sigma and Panasonic are my top picks

If Canon had been honest it would go something like this: "You may record 30 mins of 4K HQ or 8K once per day because we want you to keep buying Cinema EOS cameras at $15,000!" Honesty is sometimes just as hard to swallow as the lies and deceit. I may never buy another Canon product again after this.

So it is idle with no card... yet still overheating warning shuts it down? Yet with an HDMI cable attached it doesn't do this. More fakery from Canon, in my opinion.