Robert Collins

11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Page 6/9 of shoot menu 2 in main menu

You will find option called "DISP button"

Check "Show all info" box and select Enter to confirm the change.

Now you can cycle with DISP and in one mode it will show everything inc. video mode codec, etc.

Actually the display all info page on the A7riii doesnt show the video settings when in PASM unlike the A7rii which does. See pic.

23 minutes ago, teddoman said:

Do you recall if he measured the readout speed for the A9 in video?

No he didnt test the sensor readout for video.

But we know (for the A9) it is much lower than for stills - in fact by the rolling shutter tests I have seen, the readout is the same as the A7riii.

So did Sony intentionally cripple the A9 for video (quite probably) and was the reason they didnt include picture profiles because they deliberately didnt want people buying the A9 for video expecting that the fast electronic shutter would lead to less rolling shutter (again quite possible but just guessing.)

Still if a 24mp A7siii or a 12mp A7siii takes advantage of the incredibly fast readout from a chip like this, it would virtually eliminate rolling shutter on a FF sensor....??!!

3 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

What source did you obtain the timing of the readout from? 1/15 seems too slow to me. The timing of the readout from top to bottom needs to be fast enough to support 30p at minimum shutter speed of 1/30, without frames doubling up.

http://blog.kasson.com/

This engineer has done extensive testing of the readout speed of Sony sensors.

A7r2 1/15 second

A7r3 1/30 second

A9 1/160 second but only in stills (not in video) (which could be very interesting in terms of the A7siii)

In terms of your above comment, he tests full sensor readout for stills. So the readout for a proportion of the sensor could be faster (I guess.)

16 minutes ago, Davide Roveri said:

Robert I don't think that is the case, as per Sony specs the HDMI output of the camera is uncompressed therefore the final bitrate is dictated by the encoding you use (the maximum you can get on the Atomos is Pro Res HQ which at 30p in QFHD has a data rate of 882Mbit/s plus you get the benefit of the 4:2:2 colour sampling)

You could well be right. I wasnt speaking from experience but from what I had read in Gary Friedman's 708 page epic on the A7riii. 'The maximum bitrate you can choose for SD-stored 4K is 100 Mbps, whereas for external recorders you can record your video at about 147 Mbps.'

He does occasionally get things wrong.

BTW I thought I would throw in the A7riii and A7rii comparison here because the difference is so striking (in FF video). I am not sure I see or understand where Sony found 3 extra stops of lowlight performance out of the same sensor,

7 hours ago, Davide Roveri said:

Couple that with an Atomos so you can record at 880Mbit/s 4:2:2 and it should be spectacular! The only thing missing is still 10bit and that's a pity but I want to make some proper test sometime to see exactly how much is an issue on a regular production...

I could be wrong but I think the maximum external recording for the A7riii is 147Mbit (compared to 100Mbit internal.)

5 hours ago, mkabi said:

In the article, it says that paramount did a couple of test screenings and found it to be too intellectual....

 

My feeling is that 'intellectual' works better in a subscription model like Netflix than in the Cinema. We see that 'intellectual' like some TV series or documentaries dont attract high audience figures but they do tend to inspire loyalty to the channel brand and anchor subscriptions. So on that note, we dont know 'how much' Netflix is paying Paramount 'NOT' to release it in the Cinema. Afterall Netflix spent over US$50m making 'Okja' last year (which I thought was excellent.)

Anyways, it is useless blaming 'bean counters' and 'studio executive' or 'youtube' when they are simply catering to audience demands. Considering that 'Fast and Furious 8' generated US$1bn faster than any movie in history, it is just heroically optimistic to expect a next Godfather movie.

The footage shows the 'A7rii' or the 'A7sii'? It is marked 'A7rii' in the video (apart from the Vimeo headline that mentions A7sii). But the commentary talks about A7sii v A7riii and the others.

It wont work in stills if you shoot RAW.

32 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

 

I think this test for follow focus isnt great. The GH5s uses CDAF only (contrast detect) and the point of highest contrast is the action figures eyes - so it isnt likely to stray. Now if he moved around the 'hammer' instead of the action figure and it followed focus I would be more impressed but my guess is that as the hammer got close to the action figure it would stray to the action figure.

I can see that the adapted Sigma lenses work incredibly well with the A7riii with 'center focus' but how about 'wide af'?

20 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

"So I simply dont get 'the sensor is actually larger than the entire imaging circle of a m43 lens' because they are exactly the same sized sensor with exactly the same sized image circle."

The effective imaging area is larger than most other m43 chips, thus making the FOV wider on the GH5s. It's minimal but IBIS on this sensor could cause vignetting on native Panny lenses; something they would not want to happen (my opinion). 

From DPReview:

"Well I dont have any evidence apart from the fact the fact that I dont understand why the same size sensor with the same bit rate as the GH5 would have any reason to over heat."

Even if those two factors remain constant, there are other variables. The cameras have two completely different sensors with vastly different circuitry. The sensor readout speed is faster and AF is improved (minimally) on the GH5s. Also, anecdotally my GH5 always has run hotter than my GH4. A symptom of IBIS? Maybe.

My point is that numerous Panasonic reps have stated their reasonings for omitting IBIS from the camera. I don't understand how so many people think they know better.

Well apparently we are using exactly the same source (ie DPreview) to show differing things. The specs say they have the same size sensor, the blurb says that the sensor is 'oversized'.

However if it is oversized, it is oversized by 6.7% in area which isnt a lot - not much of a trade off for ibis. In contrast the A7riii is oversized by 300%.

35 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

The GH5s has a multi-aspect sensor meaning that the sensor is actually larger than the entire imaging circle of a m43 lens. When speaking out the amount of room needed for IBIS, we're not just talking about physical room in the camera body but also room within the imaging circle. 

Look I dont know if I am the one being stupid here or I cant get my point across. I assume we can 'agree' that the 'image circle' created by the GH5s is exactly the same size as the image circle created by the GH5 (right?). And we also know the exact dimensions of the GH5s sensor is exactly the same as the sensor dimensions of the GH5 sensor (see attached).

So I simply dont get 'the sensor is actually larger than the entire imaging circle of a m43 lens' because they are exactly the same sized sensor with exactly the same sized image circle.

You make a pretty bold statement yourself regarding overheating. What evidence or data do you have that suggests IBIS wouldn't introduce an overheating issue? 

Well I dont have any evidence apart from the fact the fact that I dont understand why the same size sensor with the same bit rate as the GH5 would have any reason to over heat.

 

31 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

The omission of IBIS is not a 1-to-1 tradeoff. The numerous additional features of the GH5s plus its target market made IBIS impossible.

This is quite a bold statement you have made but is it true? I mean a couple of people have stated on this forum that the GH5s cant have IBIS because it has a 'bigger sensor' (and there isnt room for the ibis.) Well actually the sensor is exactly the same size in the GH5s as the GH5 so that cant be it.

It might be an overheating issue but I doubt it with that sized body and sensor. It could well be a cost of build issue and Panasonic's belief that the 'target market' wouldnt be prepared to pay for ibis. Could be but I question Panasonic's judgement here.

And let's face it Panasonic hasnt done well with M43. The attached chart pretty much shows that Panasonic's share of mirrorless has fallen 75% of the past 6 years (while Olympus has remained flat) 'despite' all the innovation Panasonic has brought to the video end of the market.

And I would have thought the big market for the video-centric ILC market is catching those still photogs who are moving over to video/hybrid cameras simply 'because' they have largely tackled the two biggest hindrances to video - namely 'focus' and 'stabilization'. I have always felt that Panasonic has been incredibly adept at creating 'defeat from the jaws of victory' with their poor autofocus, now apparently they seem happy to throw away their greatest competitive advantage - namely stabilization.

And dont get me wrong. I fully respect those people who have the skill set to 'pull focus' and stabilize their cameras and realize they can achieve productions values well beyond any current 'auto' feature. I just feel these specialized skills will end up being a valuable niche in a mass market.

18 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

The GH5s as we know has the multi Aspect Sensor on it, and because of it it is well quite a bit bigger than a normal m4/3 sensor.

I seriously doubt it. The multi-aspect sensor is how the pixels are distributed and not the physical size of the sensor. The GH1 had a multi-aspect sensor and it had exactly the same size sensor as all the other M43 cameras. It was sporting an extra 100,000 pixels though.

I think you are right. Current movie settings dont show even in 'display all info' on the A7r3. With my A7r2 the movie settings show in that tab.

52 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Theoretically... This sounds great. But, in reality, not so great... I know you are probably thinking mft mount or EF mount... But think about AF.... How will that work? Even if they do the interchangeable lens mount route it will be with their DL mount and proprietary lenses. 

Well theoretically I am thinking that rather than going for a bigger sensor they will choose a smaller sensor with an interchangeable lens mount - a proprietary one rather like the Inspire. Af would be on sensor cdaf and pdaf I would guess. Here's the sort of rumor I am thinking about...

https://myfirstdrone.com/blog/phantom-5-rumors-everything-we-know

Maybe they would even throw in a variable ND!!

7 hours ago, mkabi said:

Again, with the redesigned inbuilt gimbal - they could go into micro 4/3 territory in next phantom.

Another possibility that I see in various 'rumors' is that the Phantom 5 will have a an interchangeable lens set up with the 1" sensor while the Mavic will have a fixed lens setup with a 1" sensor.

On 1/18/2018 at 3:01 AM, Nathan Gabriel said:

I've been a bit surprised by the reaction to the GH5s. If priced the same I would definitely prefer the better low light performance in the gh5s to the ibis in the gh5. But I'm a bit more inspired by dogme 95 shooting than event photography. Still I'd imagine that if you're shooting a concert it's easier to stabalize your camera than it is to control lighting.

Is the choice that stark? I mean if the GH5S had ibis that you could turn on or off, would it really have lost that much of its low light ability?

I come from the stills side that is getting into video (I think there are quite a few of us.) When I think GH5, I think stellar stabilization (as well as quite a lot else), and crappy autofocus. It seems pretty heroic to come out with a more expensive camera with crappy autofocus and missing the stellar stabilization.....

4 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

Again, one inch sensor is impossible in these tiny drone. One inch is bigger than the entire Mavic Pro camera and lens by itself.

100mbps is very welcome compared to the horrible 4k 60mbps on the Mavic that is borderline not usable.

+1 on this, it's going to be bad, especially in urban environment with a lot of RF noise.

I think you are looking at this problem upside down. DJI have just put the Mavic Pro's camera in a smaller drone - the Mavic Air. So if they put a 1 inch sensor in a Mavic Pro 2 (which is a bit bigger than the Mavic Pro) you should look at it as putting the Phantom 4 camera in a much smaller body. With the Mavic Air now out, DJI have a good excuse for making a slightly larger Mavic Pro 2 to accommodate a inch sensor.

My feeling is that as DJI have just effectively upgraded the Sparks camera to the Mavic Pro with the Mavic Air, we are not far away from seeing the Mavic Pro camera upgraded to a 1 inch sensor (plus fixed lens) with the Mavic Pro 2. And then the Phantom 5 will probably be upgraded to interchangeable lenses (and built in ND) with the same 1 inch sensor.

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think it's more that Panasonic is heavily invested in DFD and CDAF technology... They have the best contrast detect AF around.

But video needs phase-detect AF to work optimally, preferably Dual Pixel AF.

It takes a long time to change directions in such a big area of development as autofocus, and if there's a political dimension to it... It would be that Panasonic don't want to dump years of R&D down the drain, maybe... Like I say, their DFD technology and contrast detect AF is superb in right conditions for stills.

And this makes it all the more baffling/frustrating because Panasonic sets it self out as 'the' specialist 'video' centric ILC camera manufacturer...

7 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Different markets really... A7r iii is double the price of the gh5

That might be true for the A7riii but this year's A7iii will probably have similar af and GH5 pricing.

I know many film makers consider decent af a nice option to have but most still/hybrid shooters consider it a basic necessity. And really Panasonic has no excuses - they were first into the mirrorless world.

Sounds and looks remarkably unlike Canon. Still DJI has 4k/50p on a 1 inch sensor on the Phantom 4 Pro's smaller camera and that drone has been out for a year.