Tone1k

If you read my original question, I said I understand devices like these can have bugs that need to be ironed out. What I don't understand is how a camera can be released with major imaging problems that show up under normal shooting conditions. It essentially fails at its main task. Would you accept a TV that did the same thing? I can't see a TV that displayed the same kind of imaging problems as BMD's cameras being allowed to market. You may be happy to pay for the priveledge of being a guinea pig but tests like and fixes should be done prior to release. Who wants a camera you can't use for a few months? Hi John, yeah I had similar issues with OLPF flare with the Epic. I get the point, Alexa black sun looks tiny in comparison to BMD's original problem but anyway..... all I wanted to know is if the cameras go through more vigorous testing than the gen 1 cameras BMD produced. I understand you can't comment....

Thanks for the reply. While I understand that any piece of equipment can have many small bugs, major image issues for a device who's job it is to capture images should not be allowed to make their way into production.

Hi JB, Thanks for your input here on this forum. While you say that BM have asked most of the questions asked here already in the devolopment stages, I'm a little more interested in the product testing stages pre release. While the Ursa Mini line have had a lot less image quality issues than 1st Gen BMD cameras like the Production and Production 4k, image quality issues like sunspots in highlights, high levels of flicker and FPN (in the UrsaMini 4k) seem like obvious issues that should be picked up on pre release of the camera. Why do issues like this get through if product testing occurs prior to release? Surely a test of the original Production camera would have included shooting a frame with a light source on it and the sun spot show up? While I trust that BM have learned from their past mistakes, and I know that a working version of the Pocket 4K has been doing the rounds with viewings in retailers here in Australia to hopefully get feedback pre release, do cameras go through more thorough testing now compared to a few years ago or can we expect the Pocket 4K, with a new sensor (to BMD) to have image quality issues on release and then BMD address them afterwards? Cheers.

Let's not start speculating in delays until after September. There is still plenty of time for BM to deliver on time... Delay conversations are boring especially when the due date hasn't even passed yet.

I don't see a problem with the way this discussion has evolved. It has naturally evolved to what it is based on the lack of new info on the Pocket. Let's not be so militant that natural conversation be stifled for needing to start new threads for each and every little tangent that a conversation might go on. I see JB as a BMD ambassador so his input is highly valued here.

I'm pretty sure that when people criticise the P4K's looks, it's not because it looks 'too pro'. They just don't like the look of it and call it 'ugly'. Like it matters. I wouldnt give any style point to the Red Epic, Alexa Mini...... Etc.

Why does what the Pocket 4k 'looks like' matter in the slightest? If the images are good and it's ergonomically well designed, I couldn't care less what it 'looks like'. I just don't get it, sorry.

For stationary shots, try a monopod or shoulder rig if you want some natural looking movement.

I agree that a gimbal still doesn't replace a steadycam for smoothness but from what I've seen of the ronin s, the gap is certainly closing. I've seem some super smooth stuff from the ronin s..... Something IBIS will never replicate.

I personally don't see the big deal with IBIS in a camera like the Pocket 4K especially with all the hand-held gimbals on the market. Every lens and camera becomes stabilised with a gimbal and with the price of the Pocket 4K, you should be able to afford a good gimbal if you need stabilised shots. Sure, a gimbal is a little more cumbersome than IBIS but gimbals work much much better than ANY stabilised sensor. And if you are buying the Pocket4k, you are most likely shooting RAW or ProRes (pro formats) so you should be chasing pro results that a gimbal can give you and IBIS can't. If you are a hobbyist and just shoot handheld with no rigging , the pocket4k is overkill (even for the price) or get a stabilised lens but a Mirrorless or DSLR with IBIS might be a better option for you. Despite the price, this is a cinema camera and how many cinema cameras have IBIS? I'm not willing to pay for it or deal with its setbacks even when disabled.

Eh, what!? The Kinefinity is the same design as a Red in the same way a Canon DSLR is the same design as a Nikon one, or a Sony ENG camera the same design as a Panasonic one, or a Brand A car fundamentally the same design as a brand B car. They all have the same basic design and configuration.

Seems like EOSHD is only for angry keyboard warriors like you who care more about a camera's specs and starting an argument and less about actually shooting and creating. JB is a true professional who most of you here (including myself) could learn a ton from. Blackmagic actually give him cameras to shoot with prior to their release. Rather than engage in meaningful conversation, most of you are more interested in a slanging match than you are about actually learning anything. I actually agree with John, we should stop using the word sissy as a put down. What a toxic forum.

I'm not going to bother analysing the 'stolen clip'. It's completely pointless and all based on assumption. We know the camera was a pre-prod model so why is anyone bothering being so critical of it. I'm sure BM will release some footage soon that we can then judge properly.... Until then, everyone's getting worked up over nothing.

Quite a personal attack you unleashed there Kisaha just because I said "thats what I'm finding too". I'll regret it but screw it, I'll bite..... Sorry, I didn't know that we had to be funny on the EOSHD forum. Can't say I've seen you post a funny comment but maybe I haven't looked hard enough. I have a 16MP camera from 2014? Not too intelligent are you then. Can you read? BTW, My critical judgement sees me earn a good living as a professional in this industry. I have many clients that are extremely happy with the work I produce and value my critical judgement. "Fuji arrogance"? I use all sorts of cameras for my video work. From Red, Arri, Sony F55, FS7, FS5, A7SII Blackmagic UMP etc. How am I a Fuji fanboy? Did you take offence because I prefer Fuji's colour science to Samsungs? Grow up! And quoting some rich boy Vlogger, Yuryev (yes, i looked him up) that is a Youtube hack shows your level of intelligence. I'm not great at "writing sentences" ....and then you type "stop-ing" and "you bored me to death" (past tense, do I not bore you anymore?) Enough said! You are nothing but an angry troll. Pathetic.

Built in mic is stereo so just two tracks.

The Pocket 4k does have four microphones apparently.

Yeah, that's what I'm finding too.

The reassuring thing about the Pocket 4K is that BM are already taking it around to most of the Pro Sales and Rental houses here in Australia and letting people (rental managers, sales people, and industry professionals) play with it. We are still four months away from its scheduled release and the camera is doing the rounds. While they do state that it's a 'preproduction model' so not allowing anyone record footage with it, in terms of issues, these should be greatly minimised as they are getting feedback a long time before release.

Your post is is condescending. Nothing more. It's not a comparison of anything constructive. "Have Fun!" being the tell tale phrase... My comment was a ridiculous throw away line to try to demonstrate how silly your comment was. Yes, I know full well that you can't compare an Alexa with a phone camera. It was a silly comment aimed at the same level of your two comments boasting that you had been doting 240p for four years..... So what? A camera is more than one feature I don't have a problem with Samsung's colour science but do prefer Fuji's by a long shot.

Good grief, your attitude is pathetic. I've changed camera systems once since 2014 but then I don't use these cameras for work. The Fuji is my personal camera that I use for taking photos of the kids, travel etc. The video function is secondary. For work, we use Arri, Red, BM Ursa Mini Pro, F55 etc. And that's the thing, professionals and filmakers don't get all hung up on one system. Can you categorically say that you have produced better images than anyone using an XT2 because you had 240fps four years ago? It doesn't really matter which camera had 120fps first or that you might have one that does 240fps. To XT-2 owners this is a great, free upgrade. All cameras are different. Does your 240fps camera have Fujifilm colour science? I'll take Fuji colour science and 120fps over something like Sonys or even Samsung's colour science and 240fps. I'll also take Fuji lenses over ANY Sony or Samsung lenses..... Either way though, who cares who did what first. Choose the tool that you like using. Why should anyone care that you had a camera that did 240fps last year if that's not a feature I'm interested or have the need in using. The sum of a camera is all if it's parts, not just one spec. I bet you can't wait for the NX2 so you can brag to us all how far ahead of its time it is.....tell me, when are Samsung releasing the NX2 ? Finally, if Sumsung land is so fantastic what are you doing in the Fuji Land thread anyway. You obviosly have nothing constructive to add. Did you really just come here to gloat?

And I had a 4K shooting phone before Arri had a 4K Alexa........whats the point you're trying to make?

Well said. Much of the look of a film is in the grade. Having a camera that gives you the most flexibility in post does help tremendously. So while yes, the DP has a huge influence on the look of the image, they may not have got the same results if shooting on a GH4 (as someone commented) as they may not have been able to push the image around as much in post. While a great camera can't make up for a poor DP, the camera does play a role in the look of a film. If a great DP would do just as well shooting VHS as was also stated, then surely the big production companies would have got wind of this and saved some money by hiring great DP's and handycams.....

Sorry, I was being sarcastic.... And visicious. I wouldn't really tap holes in the side of my camera. I'll stop now.... It's late.

HDMI is all about saving money.... Not spending it on a cage ;-)

As another member suggested, I'm just going to find my own hacks to make it work. Might tap some holes in the side of the camera and use one of these....... Should be FINE!