Jonesy Jones

I don't think so. This'll be an announcement from the interwebs.

5 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

It has options for both 4K and UHD. 2K and HD. I mostly used the RAW to ProRes workflow instead of recording DNG's. They looked great and saved on space.

You don't need the HXR unit. You do have to get the FS RAW update though on the Odyssey 7Q which is $799. Also the FS-700 has to have the 4K Raw firmware upgrade.

Aaron, how's the color on the FS700. I always forget about this sleeping giant.

1 minute ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Yep, I got the email too. 

Curious to see what new players come up with, although their very secretive and vague approach is a bit odd. Maybe they haven't got the patent for the technology and need to protect it, who knows. 

The camera announcement of the year has to be the Kinefinity Terra so far. I hope this Craft Camera sends a few waves too! 

Maybe I'm just too naive, but I assumed the secretive aspect was a marketing strategy. I know I'll be dialed in on Monday at noon EST. 

I think the rest of the spec release schedule could be patent issues and perhaps they don't want to blow it like BM's global shutter snafu. Or maybe we should just take them at their word that they really do want to hear from their customers. 

Regardless, I feel so blessed to be a filmmaker this day.

Did you guys read the post? They will release more info on Monday and the $500 deposit is 100% refundable. I'm not saying you should do it, but I don't get why that's shady. Wait until Monday, see if you like the specs, if you do put down a deposit, and if later it's not looking good get your money back. Easy peezy.

I'm just happy to see new players enter the field because the competition means great things for us. 

Just got this email. Looks like its going to be a busy Monday.

"Greetings!

Yes, we actually exist and have a voice. We are incredibly grateful and humbled by all the support. And because of that, we are only sharing the following email to you—our early adopter email list. We have looked forward to sending this email for months. You should know that we will not publish this anywhere else. That means you are the first to know.

I bet many of you have wondered, “What’s the deal with Craft?" There has been an outpouring of interest for Craft from all over the world and from all walks of life—from Hollywood, indies, corporate marketing departments, agencies, and amateurs. They have reached out by the thousands trying to figure out what we are working on. For over a year, we have been developing the Craft Camera—a new system that we believe will help users tell better stories. 

On April 18th around 12pm EST, we will announce Craft Camera on craftcamera.com. This announcement will include initial information, a first glimpse of the Craft Camera, and we will start taking initial reservations. Since Craft Camera is still in development, we won’t be releasing every single detail because we hope to get feedback from reservation holders before we publish final details.

A reservation will require a $500 deposit, your name, email, and phone number. Reservations will only be available on craftcamea.com and will be 100% refundable. Your deposit will be deducted from the total price once you place an order at a later date. As a reservation holder, you will also receive a 10% discount off your final order along with some additional perks like first looks, priority reservations on future products and a few other surprises. Please note we are offering a limited number of reservations which is why we wanted you to know about this first. This means when we hit our limit we will stop taking reservations. No exceptions. The reservations are first come first serve and when the cameras ship, we will do so in the order that the reservation was placed. 

The Craft Camera comes in 2 models. There are 4K and HD models with a price range between $699 and $2899 depending on the configuration. Initial units will ship late 2016.

I will leave you with this—we believe there is a huge need for Craft Camera. We believe it is a revolutionary product that will give production alums a great tool to do things they couldn’t do before while opening up storytelling through motion pictures to a whole new generation. With that said, we understand Craft Camera might not be for you and...we are fine with that! We will still treat you with respect and we hope the same from you.

I am truly humbled by all the support, and I hope you become a part of the Craft family.

Keep telling beautiful stories.

Scott Bragg
Founder of Craft Digital Systems Inc. "

2 hours ago, Zach Ashcraft said:

Please invade the Canon booth in full SWAT gear and demand a 5d mark IV release. 

Lol. Will do. Except that they will just hand me a 5D mark ii with a new mark IV sticker on it.  

8 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I'm looking at the 5k to be honest. 

The 6k version doesn't seem to have a 5k mode, whereas the 5k one does at 60fps. 5k 60fps is a better option than 6k in my opinion. 

Also the 5k has switchable shutters. The 6k doesn't. And the 5k is cheaper, but it's a new sensor. So no proof of image quality yet. 

Blackmagic have quality control issues, I think the prices reflect that fairly. But they should start announcing products they have made, rather than "hey, look what we are trying to make and it's available to pre-order". 

The weight, size and lack of extended HFR options put me off the Ursa Mini 4.6k. Even though it's a Mini, you can't ignore the sheer difference compared to the Terra.  Size and weight matters. If I buy bigger, everything else (such as my grip) has to be bigger too. Smaller is the future. 

Very well said. Thanks as always for your insights.

Interesting points about the 5K vs 6K. I actually misunderstood their announcement. I had assumed the items left off the 6k were there since the 5k has them and they just didn't want to be redundant. If you are correct, I think I'd be more interested in the 5K too. Can't wait to find out more.

18 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Do you know that 99.9% of the film and TV series you watch all have artificial lighting, eye lights and everything?  IMO it's the biggest factor to the feel and quality of the image, for any camera. 

Everything I shoot, I have lights set up. And make up. And sets. Locations. Actual real people doing actual things. 

This short shows the Kinemini 4k looks awesome in a controlled setup. There's really nice highlight rolloff and skin tones. 

 

 

I really hope Kinefinity turns out to be great because it is depressing reading the latest on BM's UM46. In the past BM has eventually sorted it out, but it doesn't seem great at the moment. I will love it if Kinefinity turns out to be a solid solution. I am going to talk these guy's ears off next week. Maybe BM will have some good news too.

Btw, which model are you thinking? I'm looking at the Terra 6k. But the rolling shutter on their other cams seems horrendous. They're claiming this has been addressed... we'll see.

35 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

and that is what I want Jonesy to report on!!!!

If something new comes out that is $60k, with a beautiful image, then I want to hear about it and weigh up the price and specs myself... I can rent if I cannot afford to buy.

If you look back to my original post... I didn't say anything about budget. Just quality.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys and please keep them coming. The busier you keep me the better my NAB trip will be. 

For the VR/360/3D interest, I must confess I know very little about this. BUT I am very stoked to learn more, so I will be looking into this for sure. From this thread I have some ideas of what to look for, but the more help I can get from you the better. Companies, products, and questions. @Oliver Daniel posted some great questions on another thread recently. Do check that out to see how its done.

I think I've added all of your suggestions to my OP, but check it out to make sure I haven't missed anything.

16 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

2. Is there a chance they will release a compact HDMI EVF for the micro? (If they say no, tell them they should cause there are plenty of cameras that need one other than the micro  ) 

Thanks a lot Jonesy! 

I agree, they'd make a fortune with those. Will be surprised if they don't announce it this year.

Hey guys, I mentioned this in another thread and thought it was worth it's own. I'll be at NAB this year for 2 days, Monday and Tuesday. I've been there a few times before and I generally find myself walking around like a schmuk hypnotized be all the flashing lights. If you guys have some companies or products you'd like some inside info on, it'd be a win/win because it'd give me some purpose. So by all means, if there's something you'd like to see, or some specific questions you'd like answered, please add them to the comments below.

Most of the big bloggers do a great job with all the major announcements, so I imagine you'll get enough info about the big stuff. But what about some of the smaller companies who have some pretty sweet announcements but may go unnoticed? Or if you have a good question about a major announcement that has gone unasked by the main bloggers, let me know. It's not uncommon to even see the CEO's standing around. I can get answers straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. 

Keep in mind that I would really appreciate specific questions. I'm not kidding when I say I easily get distracted and forget to ask even the basic stuff. So the more specific the better. Also, I probably won't have time to do a bunch of editing, but I can definitely take some photos or even shoot a quick video of something if you need that. I'll be checking in periodically Monday and Tuesday, so if something comes up Monday, let me know and I can do some recon for you on Tuesday. I'm happy to do it.

Below are the requests or on the agenda so far:

• Kinefinity
• Aputure
• Lilliput
• SmallHD
• 360 cameras
• DJI - X5R?
• Blackmagic

Probably some more that I can't think of right now. But anyway, let me know.

Added:

• Edelkrone - new products/quality?
• Letus - Helix
• Zoom
• Atamos - HDR, flame
• Tascam - new product?
• Yuneec - new drones
• Sardonic - booth C12042
• 360/VR/3D - 1 cam vs multirig, Nokia OZO
• Lytro - size, price, storage, power

12 hours ago, Ed_David said:

I don't know - I can send you photos.

If it's got a rectangularish hood that's remove able it v2. If the hood is round its v1. 

2 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Awesome Mr. Jones  

I feel these guys at Kinefinity have a hard time with the West, as Chinese products kind of have some cheapo taboo and they don't have a decent international marketing and sales channel. 

It also doesn't help there's a lot of animosity online about them, mostly with those who own an expensive camera like a RED. Those who do own Kine cameras say the support is great and the products are top quality.  

These would be good questions: 

1. Are there plans to expand their international sales channel and expand dealership of their cameras? 

2. How do English speaking countries get support for the cameras (with a language barrier?) 

3. Do they have a license to use ProRes and if not, when do they expect to get it?

4. Does the global/rolling switchable shutter work in any protoypes/models? If so, is there a significant quality difference? (BM failed here as GS was not good enough). 

5. Is there any loss in quality using Hi Speed modes, and if so, what will be compromised? (Resolution, noise, moire, aliasing). 

6. Is every frame rate/resolution on the cameras available in both Raw and ProRes? 

7. What is the functionality of the KineGrip? How long can a Sony battery power the camera for via the grip? 

8. How long does the Terra take to boot? 

9. How much more weight will the KineBACK and regular V-lock add to the overall camera? 

10. What is the native ISO? 

11. If I was to pre-order the camera, when can I expect to receive it? 

12. What cost are we looking at if I order the camera with a Kinemount and an extra adapter? (Like EF or PL)? 

13. Does the 6k model have a 5k mode? If so, why not? 

14. Are lower resolutions and Hi-Speed modes crops of the sensor or can they be used with the full Super35 image area? 

15. What is included in the Wi-Fi functionality? What can we control? 

A lot of questions. But I love the look of the Terra and there are many unanswered questions. 

 

Wow. Great questions. I will ask every single one of them. This just became my most anticipated part of NAB. 

Everyone else, questions like Oliver just wrote up would be of great value to me. I get all mesmerized by the flashing lights and forget the real reason I'm there. lol  Thanks in advance for your help.

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Please report back on any smallish , high quality 360 cameras, if you see any... Any budget, just no fisheye 4:2:0 rubbish

Will do. Give me your top 2 or 3 and I'll start there.

2 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Always go see Aputure. They have the more interesting affordable monitors and LED units these days I feel like (as well as some cool other developments like their DEC).

Lilliput has a new monitor as well I saw on LinkDelight, seems they've named it after the Odyssey. A lot of features carried over from the 663/O/P2 and then some, but a sleeker form factor it seems (the 663/O/P2 turned out way to bulky for my application). Though, don't know how interesting it is at those prices... especially since it's no recorder. Atomos... Convergent Design... Video Devices... SmallHD, I'm curious if they're working on two things:

- small 5 ~ 7" monitor/recorders in the let's say sub 1199 USD range (I don't like to pay more for a monitor/recorder than the typical camera (GH4) I'd be using with it), and

- small recorders without a screen

That said, Kinefinity definitely seems to be worth paying a visit and see for yourself. Get some of that intel on actual ProRes implementation, lol.

Aputure, Lilliput, and SmallHD were already on my agenda, so definitely. And again, questions would be very helpful.

1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

If anyone is going to NAB, please report from the Kinefinity stand.  

 

I'm going and this has just become my first stop.

Oliver, what questions should I ask? Mine is going to be, "if I have a problem, who do I call that speaks English."

but I am horrendous at remembering all the good questions, please tell me what else to ask. 

Also, if there are any other booths I should visit, let me know, and questions. 

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Speaking of NAB, I have a prediction for BM...

I think they will do one of two things... Not introduce a new camera, since they had such issues delivering last year's models, or double down on the Ursa brand with the Ursa Major and Ursa Minor. The former will be a direct competitor to the Alexa and Red and the latter will basically be the Pocket 2. 

You heard it here first. 

So obviously just speculation, but I feel pretty certain BM will announce a Pocket v2, or a nearly exact sized Pocket cam with the micro sensor, probably for $1200-$1500.

I really really hope we have a new camera with the 4.6k sensor in it, or a cut of that sensor, in a body smaller than URSA mini. Of course it'll take some time getting that out to market, but it'd be really attractive as b cam to UM.

I also hope they announce that they've hired a new pr guy, this is the only thing about BM I dislike. 

I'm in a very similar situation. Here are my thoughts so far.

Like Jimmy said, wait until NAB. Just a week away before we start seeing banner shots. 

Canon DXii is a great suggestion, but it's 8 bit. For me, that's the end of the story for this one, and basically every dslr/video hybrid. Even cx00 and FS cams you find yourself shooting 8 bit unless you shoot HD or add an external recorder, which may be a solution, but raises costs and is a little clunky. For me, 8 bit no bueno. 

I've thought about even going slightly into debt to jump up to Red or whatever. This could be good if brand rec is at all important. For me not too much. And the main deal killer is when I realize these higher options shoot prores, but only at 2k. Need an additional recorder for UHD prores. So these are out. 

So next question is do we need 4K? I don't quite have clarity here, but it could be very useful for reframing etc, and 4K does have some selling power regardless of brand. If you were an ignorant client choosing between two video companies and one offered 4K and the other didn't, who would you choose (all other things being equal)? Still don't know for sure on 4K but let's add in future proofing and say we decide 4K is necessary. 

There's no other camera that checks all the boxes like the UM46 for a price anywhere close. You have to wonder about some of the issues brought up about this cam, but the more I research, the more it seems that these are troubled units in need of a replacement and there are far more healthy units out there (but obviously still keeping an eye on this). I wouldn't at all be surprised if these wrinkles get ironed out and begin to disappear. 

I still haven't made any decisions though, for me it's quite an expense. But these are my thoughts at this point. 

Also, I'll be at NAB in a week. If you, or anyone else for that matter, want me to ask BM any questions, or take a look at another product for you, I'd be happy to do that. Just let me know. 

I was sold on either the DS1 or H2, but now I'm seriously looking at the DJI X5 or the X5R which isn't out yet. I know the thought of a dedicated camera is concerning, but these are actually pretty sweet cameras. Very light setup. And with raw a lot of room in post. I'm committed to waiting until NAB though. Probably some cool announcements in the very near future. 

3 hours ago, Policar said:

"Narrative" sort of implies a full team of camera assistants and a G&E crew, but I'm assuming you don't have one all the time. If you do, definitely Alexa or even Dragon is nice.

No, no it doesn't. It simply means something along the lines of an actor based film as opposed to a doc or paid commercial work. 

1 hour ago, mkabi said:

Sorry, for reviving an old topic.

I'm quite interested in the Red Raven.

Just so that people are up to date. Sensor size has also increased? Its a 4.5K sensor with 1.62 crop factor?

And, yeah it does 4.5K @ 120fps. 15:1 REDCode ratio.

Perhaps someone can enlighten us about the compression? I mean you guys say its bad compared to a more useable 8:1 and lower, but what does that mean?

Okay... for example... I did some research on the REDCode compression ratio and this is what I found:

As you can see by the subtitles in the video it goes from 6:1 to 18:1..

I don't see much a difference, it gets a bit more brighter and the clouds may be get a little more mushier (but its really subjective)? But I cannot for the life of me see a difference, especially in the sign "GOODERHAM & WORTS limited" sign.

So for the more experienced, please help me understand how the compression ratio degrades IQ???

Pretty sure the exposure change is a result of the clouds moving around and nothing to do with compression ratio. Also, it's possible you won't be able to see a difference due to Vimeo's compression or rescaling. But it would be my guess, and I don't know so I'm just guessing, that you'll notice the difference more when grading and probably in different shooting conditions, like low light. 

Also, Raven's sensor is not the same dimensions as URSA mini's. There's a lot more useable resolution on UM. Also, Red's image is softer than BM's. To my knowledge BM's image will be much more detailed. Whether or not that's a good thing I don't know. 

2 hours ago, blafarm said:

Is this product possibly being redesigned or end-of-life?

I see it is still for sale on Edelkrone's website, but B&H lists it as no longer available.

Just curious.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1205239-REG/edelkrone_so_sliderone.html

 

 

Perhaps BH doesn't appreciate Edelkrone selling it for less than the retailers can. Typically this a no no for manufacturers. 

Probable

• BMPCC V2 - some of the higher spokespeople for BM have basically confirmed this. Same sensor and same or better IQ as the micro. Better screen (hopefully articulating). 60p. Improved battery life. Same basic form factor, though I hope for a tougher shell. Since 2012 BM has released a camera each year and I think this is the camera they go with this year. AND I think they'll be able to ship on time. 
• Announce Resolve 13. Also a yearly occurrence. 

Hopeful

• New EVF. Possibly hdmi version. Not dedicated to URSA mini. If they don't do this it'd be a waste. Lots of non UM people would want this. 
• Different sized VA and/or monitor. 

Wishful Thinking

• BMCC v2. I just don't think it'll ever happen. 
• 4.6k sensor in smaller body, or smaller cut of that sensor. I do think this will happen. That sensor is just too good not to. Will be limited by frame rates compared to UM. The question is when? For heat reasons I don't think they're ready to pull the trigger yet, but when has not being ready ever stopped them.
• Announce new BM close flange mount. Not gonna happen, I just don't understand why. Who cares if no one ever made a lens for it. For adapters and speedboosters alone it'd be worth it. 
• An x-ray machine. 

1 hour ago, Zak Forsman said:

it was only a .15 adjustment. i don't know what that equates to exactly but less than a 1/3 of a stop, i'm sure. barely a difference but noticeable side by side.

So is that a hit to DR do you think, or just a simple adjustment to exposure?

1 hour ago, fuzzynormal said:

Let's all hang out at my house in Borrego Springs and film some tests.

I'm in. 

1 hour ago, graphicnatured said:

I can shoot a comparison unless Andrew does. My micro arrives tomorrow.

I'm also in San Diego, so if you want to let me borrow it...

44 minutes ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

Lot's of fov and mm in your post...  If I understand correctly you want to see footage shot in 30-35mm fov (full frame), meaning 15mm - 17mm in m43? I have the 12-35mm zoom and the Pana Leica 15mm, 25mm 42,5mm and will test them all. 

Yep. Exactly. Thanks man. That'll be very useful. Sometimes it's more useful to see tests by folks that can answer questions. But I'll check out the other reviews too for sure.