Quirky

Canon has to respond! 

Nah, not really. Not yet, anyway. As long as the mainstream side of things is concerned. They might, but they don't have to.

They're still dominating the mainstream market, and people are still buying the same old stuff, so they can still carry on milking the audience with minimal effort and new products, and they don't really have to bother with the moans of a handful of video enthusiasts. 

It also works the other way around, meaning that as long as they're dominating the masses, the big corporate giants may be too intimidated to change anything. Until it's almost too late, and the slow adopting masses will start following the early adopters to new stuff.

On the pro side of things where Canon is more like one of the players and not the sovereign leader, they already have responded. Well, sort of. Hence the recent price reductions for their C series and even for their quirky "cinema DSLR" model, the implication of the PDAF sensor for the C series, etc. They may also be up to something new between Photokina and NAB. It was also beneficial for them to licence the EF mount for Blackmagic. Had BM chosen the E mount instead, that would have been not too cool for Canon.

And if the brand doesn't feel like coming out with gear like that, well, I think people have every right to be 'moaning'.

But as long as they're just moaning, nothing will happen. To quote Danny DeVito, "money talks and bullshit walks." (name that movie:)

As soon as people will start voting with their wallets and bringing their money elsewhere, the big leading corporate giants will wake up and start doing something. Sometimes just in time, sometimes too late. That's how the cookie crumbles in business.

...who says Panny should screw themselves, is the same one who started a thread about quirks and problems with the GH4, even before the camera was in most people's hands. Very weird!

Not really. Normal nerdspeak. Species-specific behaviour. You'd better get used to it, for it'll be the new normal. The millenials are coming. Camera forums will start looking and sounding like smartphone forums. Then they will merge. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Grab your camera and run, while you still can. :)

Also, it's half the price of the AX-100, which, as SlashCAM points out, Panasonic is also in direct competition with.

Who's in direct competition with whom is always somewhat subjective, but those trenches may indeed become somewhat blurred even further, at least for a while. Manufacturers like Panasonic and Sony may be competing with some of their own models, too. Like the X70 from Sony, which just got announced. Depending on its street price, it might also be competing with the AX100.  Although I'm not much of a camcorder guy, so I'll leave that debate to the camcorder and ENG experts.

But we all wait for a new release of EF-m4/3 with electronic contact, we all want auto-focus etc will work automatically. 

Well... not really.

If you insist on using autofocus when shooting video, your best choice is always the native AF lenses of the system. In the case of GH4, that would be the Panasonic mFT lenses. The main reason to use an active adapter with "foreign" lenses is the ability to change aperture. There is no guarantee that AF will work with other system lenses. It might, but it's likely to be slow and clunky, useless for video.

In other words, if you decide to go for Canon or some other non-mFT lens, you'll save yourself from disappointments when you expect to use that lens manually, regardless of the lens adapter.  Then just practise, practise, practise.

And also your thoughts on IR filtration for the bmpcc.

 

I then came across another video showing IR (near infrared) issues with the BMCC... and other cameras including Alexa products.

Maybe slightly off-topic, but for starters, I think it would be interesting to know (meaning I don't know it yet) what is the internal sensor stack inside the BMPCC to begin with. As we know, standard mFT sensors have a thick stack of glass in the front of the sensor, including an IR filter (glass does that, too), but the BMPCC is not exactly a standard mFT camera, it only happen to have a mFT mount. Given the fact that it has no AA filter, I wonder how thick an IR filter does it have internally, if at all? Does anyone happen to know?

Maybe knowing that would also help in knowing what kind of results to expect from the various ND filters. Well, just curious.

Yup, a good passive adapter is all you need for those Samyangs. What was said about the MFF Services above applies to Novoflex ones, too, pricey but well made. You get what you pay for. With the cheapest ones it's always a bit of a gamble. Some are crappier than others. I'd get a proper one for the A7s.

Speaking of passive adapters and ND filters in the same sentence, there is actually one rather interesting, albeit slightly bulkier solution for just that. Namely the Holy Manta VND adapter. That's basically a passive Canon EF to Sony E (or mFT) adapter with a slot for a variable ND filter mechanism.

Looks weird, but sounds brilliant in theory. I have no personal experience with one yet, but I think I'll give one a try later on. In case someone has already tried one, feel free to chime in. I read somewhere that vignetting should not be much of a problem even with a FF body, but suppose that remains to be confirmed.

If only they come up with the Metabones Speed Booster for BMPCC and the Holy Manta VND inside the same adapter...

That would be the killer app for BMPCC, wouldn't it. But I don't think there's enough room for both between the mounts. At least in the case of the Canon EF mount. 

Oh, I completely forgot that, there is no EF to mFT Speed Booster, yet. But I bet there will be one, pretty soon. Maybe in September. The Kipon should be just fine, too.

Quirky I agree...I also liked the suggestion and rationale why a Hackintosh is a great idea in previous posts...but for me I think stock iMac 27" it is with upgradeable RAM (32gb)

 

However...where I am stuck is the actual storage workflow.

 

There are 3 basic variables:

 

1. Intern HDD for OS and software

2. External Raid 0 for editing

3. External HDD for backup

 

I am not sure if internal HDD is that important compared to the external Raid 0?  For example...if I kept the stock 1tb 7200rpm SATA internal but got a GRaid usb 3 (4TB) for editing/importing/exporting HD video and pictures then put the final product on my External HDD for backup and deleted the raw riles etc on the Raid 0 is that a good solution?

Hard to say for anyone else. As for those variables, my version could be something like this:

1. Inernal HDD for OS and software

2. External HDD for editing

3. External Raid 0 for backup

I know some people are editing straight on Raid 0 systeems, but since I haven't got one right now I have no comment on that. Suppose it's a matter of taste.

My current system is pretty simple. I've got a couple of external hard drives. One that has the main FCPX projects and events folder and a bunch of other important stuff, and a HDD toaster (two, actually) where I can swap several drives, whenever necessary. One of those has the raw clips and final version when it's done. Or backups. Whenever the drive gets full I either delete unnecessary stuff or get another drive and start filling it. I'm not saying that's particularly good or fast a system, but it's simple and rather inexpensive. There's a separate Time Machine disk for any stuff on the internal HDD, too, of course, but that's another story.

I think it boils down to your personal preferences, your preferred workflow and the thickness of your wallet. Suppose there's no wrong way to do it, as long as it works for you.

Am I missing something here?

Yes. The point. 

Nice attempt at summary dismissal, but that's a straw-man argument I never made. I simply noted that the clip "looks" bad. To elaborate, I found the clip visually fuzzy, murky, unpleasantly underlit, and filled with electronic noise that does not look like film grain. I'm not commenting on the subject matter, mood, or anything about its "experimental" nature. 

Oh bollocks. Let's be honest to ourselves, shall we. It may be un-PC, but racer5's short analysis was spot on. It wasn't about you. Judging by this and several other topics here and elsewhere, many people don't seem to see the forest from the trees, even if it slapped them on the face. Let's not become hardcore "PIPP's," peeps. Let's enjoy the provided content for what it is, at least once in a while. 

I think the weird little clip did illustrate (pardon the pun) a point, and it was somehow inspiring, too. I see no point in obsessing about the obvious and gloating over the irrelevant. Or being jealous about something I don't have. 

In such a case, a Metabones Speed Booster EF to mFT would be the ideal, and the most expensive solution. 

There are also cheaper focal reducing adapters like the Lens Turbo, costing under $200 or thereabouts. But you generally get what you pay for. 

Another cheaper option is a glassless lens mount with electronic contacts, made by Metabones and some others.  They don't change the focal length (perceived field of view) of the lens, so the 2x crop factor of the mFT system would remain the same.

Then there are at least half a dozen or more different brands for basically the same thing, a simple lens adapter to mount a Canon EF lens onto a mFT body. With no electronic contacts, fully manual everything, from $12 or so upwards. Again, you get what you pay for, so the priciest ones are usually better made than the cheapest generic ones.

Which one to get, that's up to you, whatever fits your needs and wishes.

I may just go for either the 21.5" or 27"  iMac.  I am not sure if I should get the 27" so I can upgrade the ram and HD myself through watching videos or just max out a 21.5".

 

Any input on the most cost efficient way to get a decent mac system configured would be highly appreciated!

I haven't heard of an iMac where you cannot change RAM yourself. A one may exist, and I may have not noticed it, but the general rule of thumb is that you can change at least RAM yourself within minutes, and in some cases HDD, too. The MacBook Air is of course an exception, and in some cases, like with the latest mini, changing the HDD is a bit tricky. Doable, but tricky.

My suggestion would be just to buy a stock iMac which you can afford with some change, then buy a matching pair of 3rd party RAM. Not that hard to find. Just make sure you always use a matching pair of RAM modules, if both banks are in use. 

That will save you enough money to buy an external HDD. Or, go and buy a fast, and the biggest one you can afford. You know, for your FCPX projects, photos and stuff. That way the size of the internal HDD of the iMac is not that critical. 

That's about it. 

My knowledge on such topics are limited and was curious if anyone had suggestions, even for prebuilt machines or distributors.

If I was the owner of this forum, I would make sure not to touch that particular topic. Not that there's anything wrong in asking or discussing the topic, but don't be surprised if the practical suggestions won't come from the forum owners or even moderators. Instructing where and how to abuse a software license might be on the hazy side of legally and morally smart things to do. Sure it's harmless to the normal punters, but for forum supervisors it's another matter. Potentially, at least.

I'd say a hackintosh may be an ego booster or a political statement of a sort for some computer nerds, but for any practical use and for work it wouldn't be worth the hassle. Just get the real thing, new or used, and then max out the memory yourself. 

Seriously one of the most annoying things in the universe is that PAL cameras are 24/25p.

Why?

What makes you think the NeverTwiceSameColour-land of 30/60 @60Hz would be the Promised Land?

My purpose is electronics reviews and outdoor interviews.

I don't need film look. I need smooth.

Is there a big difference between 24/25 on YouTube vs 30?

I need expert opinions. I am between buying a PAL camera here and having one imported with all the duty fees that come along with it.

If you're shooting electronics which are hooked to the 50Hz power grid, every display in view will flicker, so will most lights. As will traffic lights, electronic billboards, neon lights etc. outdoors.  LEDs may be slightly easier.

As for smoothness, if you're using 30p or 60p in a 25/50p @50Hz ecosystem, movement may appear slightly jerky or hiccuppy. To over-exaggerate quite a bit, walking people may seem to be shimmying along. :)

How much will that matter in your case is another matter, but I for one don't see compelling enough a reason to order a NTSC version from overseas. Unless it's a region-switchable world model and your goal is to evade the EU tax punishment known as the silly 29-minute record limit.

I'll leave the better and more detailed explanations to others, but suffice to say I don't think you'll gain any extra smoothness by going 30p in Europe, rather the opposite. What YouTube does to your video, be they 30p or 25p, that's another story.

http://www.economist.com/news/technology-quarterly/21603182-photography-mirrorless-digital-camera-aimed-people-who-want-take-more

 

I am a dinosaur.  In addition to owning cameras with mirrors in them I also subscribe to print magazines!  I was working my way through my backlog of Economist issues and stumbled on an article about mirrorless cameras.  I just posted an excerpt from the article.  There is a link you can follow.  I can't really say I learned anything from the article.  It did seem to paint a bleaker picture for Panasonic and Olympus.  Absolutely no mention of video nor the GH4 nor BMPCC. 

What that article shows is that the Economist doesn't know much about cameras, and their view is a typical US-centric at that, borrowed from some other site or publication, and edited slightly. Looks like typical copy-paste journalism in action, or just another meaningless filler story. 

Next story, please.

If they are leaving stuff like that out of their mirrorless articles it makes you wonder what they are leaving out of their articles on fixed income securities in Botswana.  

That sentence has a strange logic. It's a bit like saying that if, for example, you don't buy the official 911 story, you must also be a 1969 moon landing and a holocaust denier, UFO nutter, and a rabid home grown terrorist nut job. And so on. Or that if you don't write about the Fisker Karma, Chrysler Volt or whatever geeky car designed by some South African tycoon, you can't know anything about motorcycles, either.

I believe the Economist do know a thing or two about a number of issues, but mirrorless cameras just aren't one of them. Which is hardly surprising.

The price will probably rise on the distributors sites...it's back to the $995 on the blackmagic site.  I'm glad I pulled the trigger on one.

I ordered my BMPCC from CVP before they put the prices back up, and they said they had about 150 on back order at the low price. CVP is probably the top video retailer here in the UK, so perhaps they put the price back up to slow down the orders in fear they couldn't fulfil them all.

Blackmagic Pocket Camera $495 Promotion based on dealer stock levels

Looks like there was some truth to this - the Pocket has been returned to normal price at CVP UK.

Apparently that's just CVP in the old Blighty, for now. Some other major distributors in Europe, like A.F. Marcotec and some others haven't jacked up their discounted prices yet. Only the estimated delivery times seem to get longer, 15 to 20 days or so. But if there continues to be clearly more demand than supply, everybody will end up rising their prices, eventually. 

There is a long way to go on the 4K journey & there's no point claiming that those 2 new cameras are the best thing out there.

Anyways, we'll find out what BM are planning very soon...

Not disagreeing, not arguing, no comment on the two new cameras, just making loosely related observations: WSJ Going 4K

To get back on topic, though, I tend to believe that the BMPCC and good quality 1080 HD are far from becoming totally obsolete. Nor do I think BM will discontinue it yet. Unless they're totally out of stock, and there's an all new model ready to be launched somewhere between Fotokina and CES.

I can almost guarantee a new pocket cam will come in at $1299 or $1499. It's their price point void right now. Keeping the original pocket would be smart too.

Not that I would mind that, but got to ask why? The BM lineup is a bit cluttered already, so yet another model might not be the ideal choice for a small camera maker like Blackmagic. 

As for the pricing, I for one would be surprised if it wasn't the same as the entry price for the first generation model.  To ask nearly 50% more would mean it would have to be an all new camera, with some new features, perhaps all new design, too, not just an upgrade.

But we'll see, soon enough. Maybe.

At $495 let 'em come out with a new one. I'd want to let a new one simmer and season for a year to get the bugs out before I jump on that bandwagon. Also if they announce in September god knows when you'll see it. BM aren't exactly known for delivering on announced dates. I'm just hoping I get the back-ordered one I ordered from B&H.

Yeah, me too. I'm in no hurry to buy the new one, whenever it comes. Based on BM's recent track record, that may indeed be the smart choice. Although when seeing all the ooga-ooga-new features of the new model, there may be a brief nuisance of a GAS attack, but I think I'll manage.

I was one of those who ordered one right before the recent price drop. One would think I'd be miffed silly, and perhaps I was for a while, but that lasted about 15 seconds. I traded in one of my stills cameras and got a decent deal, so all I end up *losing' was some of the perceived value of the trade-in goods. No big deal. At least I should have mine very soon, as it was in stock already. I don't have to wait 3 to 4 weeks for one, which seems to be the typical estimated deliver time among those who advertise the BMPCC for under 500€.

If the delivery times will get delayed even more, or if the price of the current model will indeed rise back up to the previous level before a new model will replace it, I'll have nothing to be miffed about. A price drop was/is pretty inevitable at some point, anyway, and I bought one as a tool, not as an investment.

I don't think this is fair in the slightest. He gave very fair reasons as to what he didn't like about the A7s. Imagine if we have to start every post with a disclaimer like:

 

"Please note: This is just my opinion, I prefer not to generalize, everything is relative"

 

Obviously its just his opinion. But it's the opinion of a video professional that may or may not balance the enthusiasm shown by other video professionals. I see no lack of logic or "narrow sighted gadget nerd" tone in the post Eric did. I don't think thats called for. It was just some valid points for those who may be in his boat.

 

I'm a huge fan of the new A7s. will most likely buy it, and although not all of the "problems" mentioned are as important to me, Eric's review still made a load of sense to me.

I'm not too interested in the perceived 'fairness' of  that one deliberately snarkastic line when it's being taken out of its original context. That particular discussion has since ended good while ago, anyway. What was literally in that linked blog was not the point. It was not about him. It was more about how and why that blog post was brought into the debate in the first place. I said what I said, people can and will interpret it as they wish, and life goes on. 

FWIW, the point I was trying to make was basically the same you wrote about in your previous post above, and therefore I fully agree with it. That is, overly sensitive readers projecting their own insecurities on Andrew's blog post, big kids having tantrums because the new toy gets all the attention now and they don't have it. Just another typical day in the gadgetkindergarden. 

I presented more or less the same talking points you did. I just did it in a bit less PC and much less concise manner. Anyway, take it as you wish, but after that, let's just move on, shall we.

Oh man, now I wish I could find (and legally share) a Gary Oliver cartoon published in TPV back in the early or mid 90's, featuring two fellows admiring a big TV set.

The other guy staring at the screen with glee and asking something like: "IDTV? HDTV?" and the owner of the TV set sitting in his armchair replying: "Nope, just good old GDTV."  :)

If people are buying a product based on a single person's perspective and then pissed after the original reviewer changed their mind thus infuriating the buyer of the said product, the buyer should see mental help ASAP. 

 

 

I enjoying asking questions, getting responses, and taking a long time to decide.  But if I went out and bought an a7s based on Andrew's video and commentary alongside whatever Philip Bloom says, and realize my 5d3 was a better choice for me due to aesthetics in the video I would not be pissed at them and use it as a learning experience.

 

Some of you give too much credit to individuals, it is scary.  Then again this is how masses follow religion :)

Yeah, this is getting funny and sad at the same time.

Oh boy. Now I really feel sorry for Andrew. Damn if you say this, damn if you say that, and damn if you don't say this about that.  :wacko:

Seriously people, you're supposed to be grown-ups, so grow a pair. Bloggers like Andrew Reid, Erik Naso, Philip Bloom and others cannot possibly be held responsible for your gear choices or your gear happiness. They are not telling you what to do, they are merely sharing their informed opinions. Do you really want and expect this to be a all-encompassing nanny state with disclaimers and restrictions everywhere? 

Nevermind.

This sounds like a bunch of Canon and Panasonic fankids are pouting because Andrew got excited about a new toy and is no longer paying as much attention to their favourite toy as he used to. Oh well, such is life in the playground. 

Some of you give too much credit to individuals, it is scary.  Then again this is how masses follow religion  :)

The masses follow almost any meme in the mainstream. 

One strange thing about this camera is its not easy to find footage. Over at dvxuser there is a thread that's is for a7s footage its 117 pages and counting. 

Is it really one strange thing about the camera, or is it one strange thing about the audience of these sites? After all, that sentence pretty much sums up most of the A7s discussions up until very recently, and also the GH4 discussions before that.

Until recently, no one actually had the cameras, still only very few own an A7s, but 'everyone' has a strong opinion about it. Hence the 100+ pages of opinions, rather than footage in a topic for footage. Not much different over here, for obvious reasons. Until more people have one.

Maybe it's strange, or maybe it's business as usual.  ;)

It could also be that whilst most dealers are now offering at least 3 weeks delivery time, as they have no stock at all, and maybe BM has (again) trouble in delivering enough stock for everyone, (hence the "withdrawal"), the dealer in question is trying to lure in orders to themselves with the fact that they do have some stock, and to make sure they'll get rid of it in time.

In other words, sounds like a poorly written marketing copy by that one dealer, nothing to do with BM directly.

But we'll find out soon enough, if what they're actually on to something unusual.

BTW, looks like some dealers that have no new stock are not advertising the new reduced prices, nor are they willing to sell their existing units for the new half price. Or maybe there are two different 'classes' of dealership. Whatever the case, the pricing confusion and poor availability at the advertised price may end up backfiring on BM, at least in theory. But we'll see.

Ha! Thats pretty funny!

I'm not "narrow-sighted in the least. Maybe you should check out the rest of my blog eriknaso.com. I write more about other stuff than just cameras.

Heheh, I knew this was going to come back to bite me in the derriere, and fair enough, I deserved it.  :)

I wasn't really calling you "narrow-sighted," but I did say that particular blog post may make you sound like a proverbial narrow-sighted gadget nerd. There's a difference, you know. But perhaps that remark sounded grumpier than it needed to be.

As for checking out the rest of your blog, that's a deal. I will do just that at some point. 

 

I wrote about what I felt are issues with the A7s for me and I'm finding that others do feel the same. Not everyone of course. The single biggest issue is the price. It's a hybrid camera so for me I want it to work as one. If it only becomes a video tool then I prefer other cameras to use. I actually want to keep it for it's strengths but to really get the most from the A7s I would have to spend a whole lot more on Sony lenses to take full advantage of auto focus for stills and maybe even video. I think I made that pretty clear in my article. 

What I was referring to with the not making logical sense remark was the part under the Lenses header in particular, but explaining that in full would be a bit too long a story for this thread. Suffice to say I didn't agree with some parts of the piece, but that's okay, it's just life. As said, it was nothing personal, just differences in viewpoints.

I totally agree about needing to invest in native lenses for a new system, be that a Sony, Canon or whichever one. That's always the ideal case, isn't it. Whichever system you go for, you are likely to invest quite a bit in its lenses, too. Otherwise it makes not much sense, except in some special cases.

But apparently I was skimming the blog post too quickly, because that part didn't actually seem too clear in that article. Maybe I shoud re-read it with more time. FWIW, what stuck in my mind from that part of your blog post was your complaining about how bad the A7s was with Canon lenses, and how you'd have to spend a fortune on native Sony lenses, which you were not willing to do.

That would beg the question why would one invest in an expensive Sony camera in the first place, then, if that was an issue? If one had a significant collection of existing EF lenses and one had no intention of ever trading them for something else, or even investing in the native lenses, wouldn't it make more sense to stick with the Canon system, and not wasting money on a new one?

After all, it's not really the A7s's fault if the native Canon lenses aren't ideal for it, because they haven't been designed for it. As you no doubt know, the fact that you can use them as, say, in MF mode in the first place is a great thing.

A Canon camera would be equally bad with Sony lenses, provided that  was even technically feasible, with flange distances being similar and all. Whichever way it goes, using non-native lenses is always a compromise. But as you know, that compromise is sometimes worth having, and the camera can deliver beautiful footage, even with Canon lenses. 

No need to answer the rhetoric questions above, though, I'm just trying to clarify my previous talking points. However hasty my first read may have been. It was not about you personally, it wasn't about defending the Sony camera, it was more about choosing the right camera for each of us. And I do get your point now. 

 

A little about that "Erik guy." I'm a broadcast DP in San Diego. I work in local broadcast shooting commercials and news image promos. I use a lot of different cameras to get the job done. At work it's the C300 and C100. I just added the GH4 too. I have lots of lenses for it since I also used to shoot with the AF-100. 

 

My thinking in writing the article was a wake up call for myself. It's good to know the bad things too right? Good to know how much you need to invest to get the camera usable for you right? Thats pretty much it. Thanks for reading the article.

Yes and yes. 

You're welcome, and I'll read more, whether I agree with your views or not. :) Judging by this reply, I'll probably disagree less than some people here might think.

Peace & rock'n'roll.  ;)

I have seen amazing footage from all cameras

Well, that's where it all boils down to, isn't it. They're all more or less good enough, and it's up to you to pick the one (the system) that fits your needs, your workflow desires and/or in your budget. Even with things like RAW, it's rather subjective, and what you wish to accomplish.

I know this is not too helpful to an "average schmo like you" (or me), but that's how the cookie crumbles. We all need to do the hard work ourselves, and others can't really help that much. Rather than repeating what fuzzynormal already said in the three first paragraphs of his comment above, I got to admit I tend to agree with him on that, and I recommend people to read that once again. 

So just go and get one, any one, and start shooting. Your needs, your wallet, your decision.

As far as Erik sounding like "another narrow-sighted gadget nerd" ...aren't we the great judge?...it must be nice to be so perfect as you seem to think you are

I have no idea about being so perfect, because that's something or someone that only exists in your own imagination. It's your straw man.

Same goes for "judging" people. That's not what I'm interested in doing. Each to their own.

I only commented on what this guy named Erik actually said in his blog post. There was nothing personal. Feel free to agree or disagree on the actual matters, but personal attacks are unnecessary. It just makes it look like you either don't understand or don't care about the actual matters discussed.

So get over it, you dont know what people here are like or what they do...or anything else.

People have different opinions, get over it, it doesn't mean they are gadjet nerds, button pressors, and therefore need to be instructed or corrected by you.

Well boo hoo, Sherlock. Your opinion has been noted. 

Someone needs to come out with a battery grip add-on for the A7s but instead of it just being for an extra battery it would also be a 4k recorder....essentially giving you 4k that you can hold in one hand like the gh4.

Wouldn't that make it a brick á la the Panasonic YAGH (or whetaver)? 

Not a bad idea in general, though. A Ninja Star with 4K recording capabilities would be much nicer than a big brick. Be it with or without a screen.

I'll be renting the a7S first though. Don't know why more people don't try before they buy. 

Easier said than done in many parts of the world and in smaller towns.