Damphousse

Gopro popped 6% today on buyout rumors.  We could be seeing the beginning of the end of this company as a stand alone entity.

On 4/10/2018 at 11:56 PM, webrunner5 said:

Form factor as much as anything, lots of buttons handy. And the ND filters in the Pro. People are not going to stop buying Sony FS5, FS7's, Canon C300 mk II's  just because the 4k BMPCC has come out. You still need a lot of real estate to rig a camera properly and the new BM sure isn't going to shine in that department. Big productions will still buy big camera bodies. They are more stable also because of the weight. Stronger mounts on them, on and on. Plus I don't think Clients are going to pay someone 1000 bucks an hour to shoot with a sort of Toy looking camera yet.

But to stay competitive in the bigger camera market BM is going to have to raise their ISO on them like they have done with the new 4K BMPCC.

I am definitely getting a BMPCC 4k but I could still see myself buying some kind of C camera like the C300 mk II or C200.  I don't do video for pay but if I can do a little at work and get the tax deduction for purchasing the equipment $7,500 isn't that much.  I won't have to do that much internal work to come close to breaking even.  Plus by the time I get the BMPCC 4k and use it for a few months to see how it works out the C series cameras I am eyeing will probably have gone down by a thousand or two dollars.

18 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

Why PC users? Resolve is on Mac. I tried it, don't like it at all so not an option for me. On Mac you have the option to use Premiere, Resolve or FCPX whatever suits you best, for years.

 

I too have been grading and editing raw files directly on a PC for years.  What does this Prores raw bring that is new?

On 4/7/2018 at 11:25 PM, webrunner5 said:

Yeah that is half the reason a Red camera is so damn expensive is their proprietary crap. When I think about it they are a bigger Horses Ass than Sony LoL.

 

Yeah I don't like closed licensed stuff.  When Quicktime was dropped on Windows I really didn't appreciate the scramble to reimplement Prores support.

1 hour ago, Don Kotlos said:

My guess would be to save them for A7sIII which looks like it will have the same near-global-shutter performance. 

I agree, there is definitely a value in separating the video from the photo since not only you get a better tool for each job, but I find it also puts you in the proper mental state. I believe there are a lot of people that were forced to use a hybrid such as GH5s or A7s* strictly for video since there weren't that many choices.  But now, or sometime later this year to be exact, with the pocket4K if you don't really need a hybrid then it is a great choice.

I gave up on hybrid.  I have a Canon DSLR and a BMPCC.  There was no other way I was going to get Prores and raw 1080p for $500.  No new expensive hybrid camera has compelled me to upgrade.  Obviously the new BMPCC 4k is now going to be my next camera.  I do like that it has photo capabilities but the Canon stays and I will definitely upgrade to some kind of Canon full frame.

Once I stopped looking for everything in one camera I relaxed and a lot of possibilities opened up.

16 hours ago, Jn- said:

The thing about Prores and so called RAW output on non high end cameras is that its taken “later” in the data food chain, from the sensor starting point.  Indeed as Wolfcrow’s article on Gh5 points out, theres hardly any benefit in recording externally on Gh5, although workflow, based on an easier codec may be a good reason, but not pure resolution.

Hopefully this new cam can produce a good quality Prores/Raw image, compared to h264.

I think its wise to wait, even though i’m tempted to preorder, i’ll wait for the first quality reviews of the prores, if its good ill be in.

 

Obviously you never used the original BMPCC.  The raw and prores were solid.  You had to spend thousands of dollars to get a new camera that even came close.  The BMPCC is the real deal.  I thought the GH5 was going to be basically what the BMPCC 4k claims to be.  But as you noted for whatever reason it fell far short of the BMPCC.

BMPCC files are a pleasure to grade and the noise when it does appear is very film like.  There is no macroblocking, harsh highlight roll offs, banding, etc.

I like DaVinci because it is not subscription and it is available in multiple OSes.

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I agree with him, in the photography still world the technical performance has plateaued out, with only incremental improvements now. 

When will we reach this in the video world?

I reckon the BMPCC4K could be the beginning of the end.

I think you summed it up well.  This is a watershed moment.  Assuming this camera is what we think it is there will really only be refinements going forward.  If you can't get it done with this thing it's not the camera that is the problem.  Sure the camera is missing Canon's DPAF, IBIS, internal NDs, etc.  But two or three years ago nobody was even asking for that stuff (except maybe some people asked for NDs).

1 hour ago, anonim said:

Is it common outcome that after presentation of "final" product and open pre-order selling still rest so much unanswered questions? It is not rhetorically question - simply I've never paid to much attention on usual promotional behavior...

But here I noticed that several visitors confirm the same - to quote one of them: "Blackmagic people were unwilling to say anything on camera." I don't understand why.

Am I wrong when it seems to me that at the moment we really dispose mostly with glaring promises which, of course, all of us greatly respect and wish or longing for - but we actually know very little how efficiently they will be implemented? Because we saw so little of examples of promised look and implementation?

I think you know the answer.  Most companies don't do a presentation and then open preorders six months in advance so I am not sure what you expect us to compare it to.

It is 2018.  Blackmagic is a different kind of company.  Frankly Blackmagic of 2018 is different from Blackmagic of 2015.  People are even getting tripped up comparing it to Blackmagic of five years ago.  The product and the company have evolved.

What usually happens with these cameras is you get a bunch of rumors of varying quality from different websites and a company that refuses to answer any questions.  Blackmagic cut out the BS middle man and has given you a lot of the FACTS.  Do you mean to imply you prefer the sketchy rumor route?

What Blackmagic is doing is unusual but I don't get the angst.  Just treat their announcement like you do the rumor sites and wait six months.

5 minutes ago, jonpais said:

#1. Resolve LIte is free and is plenty for me.

No noise reduction and can't use as high a resolution as full resolve... to just name two issues.  There is a full list on the Blackmagic site.  I am happy Lite works for you but I had my eye on full Resolve for some time now.

6 minutes ago, jonpais said:

#2. I'm not seeing any trolls here. Care to name them?

No.  Not really.  I meant I would be interested in hearing people's genuine reasons for using other cameras not just internet fight nonsense.  The BMPCC 4k seems like such a no brainer I wonder what I am missing.  This is the camera everyone has been asking for six years.  If lack of full time autofocus and lack of IBIS are the main complaints then I'm all in.

Of course we have to see footage and in depth hands on reviews.  But if their claims are true I really don't see any competition for this camera.  A C200 can do things this camera can't.  A GH5 can do things this camera can't.  But those things cost way more.

2 minutes ago, Garug said:

I think this is a perfect camera to replace my old and well served GH4 and it will also get a perfectly tailored gimbal. The only thing where GH4 maybe is better is the weather shielding, that has been handy for few times.

Do NOT do that with a Blackmagic Pocket.  The build quality on this new camera looks a lot better but I think you will have many tears if you use it in a situation like that.

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well Jon is right, this camera is not right for the vast majority of people. It has too complex of a Codec for the average person for one reason. And I really doubt AF will be great, not that the GH5 is special either, and no IBIS is a bummer for a lot of people now. I must admit it would have been nice to have it. I am a tripod guy so in reality you have to turn it off on one, so no biggy to me it's not there.

But this Run n Gun trying to get Stabilization and AF right all the time I think is a bridge too far. Not a big fan of the Flying look and wonky looking AF that can happen when you push it too far. Now I don't want to see motion like crazy either. But different strokes for different folks. I mean I will probably buy a stabilizer for mine if I get one. There are times it works no doubt.

I remember a few short years ago all the "pros" made fun of us hobbyists for even talking about autofocus.  Now we have a 4k pocket with a decent screen a ton of modern connections, and a bigger sensor and we are now being told lack of AF and IBIS is some fatal flaw!

For $1300 with DaVinci Resolve I have no complaints.  A tripod or monopod for such a light camera is not a massive inconvenience.  And I use IS on my Canon lenses via a speedbooster.  It is no substitute for IBIS + IS lenses but it does help a lot with micro jitters.

Nontrolls should start a Blackmagic Pocket 4k alternative thread.  I would love to see people's analysis on using other cameras.  If you exclude the price of DaVinci resolve the GH5 is DOUBLE the price.

4 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

It is funny the way this camera is changing the way you address the GH5S model now, isn't it our good friend Don? ; ) I think we both know how Jon is plainly aware of the power of this BMD introduction and their new introductory price on this game now... :-)

The camera game is rough.  I feel bad for Panny.  I honestly thought about a G7 or something like that just to get a taste of 4k without breaking the bank on a GH5, but then... Blackmagic.

This thing is my next filming camera.  I will probably get a full frame Canon sometime in the next year for stills but Blackmagic has my video money.  I honestly thought about a C series camera but I'll pass for now.  I can get the Blackmagic and try that out.  Even if I don't like it for some bizarre reason it is only $1,000 (gonna keep Resolve).  The depreciation on this camera is going to be minuscule.  Sorry C200.  I'll let you plummet in price before I look at you.

Canon guy here.  Still own a T3i.  Bought a BMPCC for video during fire sale because... no brainer.

Blackmagic has done it again.  I have to see some camera tests to evaluate DR and highlight roll off but I have a feeling this is going to be a winner.  I just can't justify buying a different brand of camera.  Full Davinci resolve thrown in for giggles?!  Amazing.

9 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Mac Pro update delayed until 2019

https://***URL removed***/news/5093932298/report-apple-won-t-release-the-next-mac-pro-until-2019

The uniform level of disappointment with the "pro" line and Apple in general in the comments pretty much tells the tale.  I like to read the comments just to do a reality check.  I like to see where my assessment is compared to the general population.  I don't have vitriol like some of the people posting in the comments but I figured out what was going to happen with the "pro" line a long time ago.

It is funny to watch people try and defend this even when Apple themselves says they screwed up...

Quote

The current Mac Pro—colloquially referred to as the trash can Mac Pro because of its form factor—was released all the way back in 2013, and even Apple admitted that the design was a mistake. In April of 2017, Apple executive Craig Federighi told BuzzFeed News that the company had "designed ourselves into a bit of a corner" with the circular form-factor, and Phil Schiller promised users that Apple was "completely rethinking the Mac Pro" for the next generation.

Mistake or not if it works for some people great.  But the quirky designs and delayed updates and refreshes should really not come as a surprise to anyone in 2018.

5 hours ago, Jim Giberti said:

Wow, my accountant is going to be shocked that we've spent all these years as part of a delusional side show.

Man am I glad I read your post.

No one said anything about a "delusional side show" and I have no idea what you are a "part of".  I get it if you picked today to be angry on the internet to get your rocks off but please do it in some other thread and don't quote me.  It is just childish.

17 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Someone could have asked a while ago why would any one ever buy a phone from a computer company?!

Not sure what company you are talking about.  This thread is about Apple.  And as we all know Apple was not a computer company even before the iphone was introduced they made most of their revenue from the predecessor of the iphone.  It was called the ipod.  You proved my point.

Apple's business is marketing expensive consumer electronics... Well two pieces of consumer electronics in their history to be exact.  First the ipod and then the iphone.   Everything else has been a side show.

So anyone being surprised at the neglect for the professional world is delusional.

Why would anyone buy a professional computer from a phone company?

70% of Apple's revenue comes from iphone.  Every other category is single digits.  Is anyone surprised they keep jerking pro desktop users around?!

I remember all the photographers that standardized on Apple Aperture only to have Apple discontinue it years later.

I get it if someone really really wants to use FCPX.  But honestly you know who you are dealing with.  Some kind of BS is going to happen and it will happen a lot sooner than you think.

23 hours ago, kaylee said:

uh oh

After my one and only post in this dumpster fire of a thread I swore I would not post again, but...  Damn, girl!

That is some funny stuff!  At least some good came of this disaster.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Stop teasing us and show us the money.

This.

One of the main rules in business is to under promise and over deliver.

If some kid doesn't have time because of soccor practice they shouldn't go on the web stating I can do 4k raw with this or that hacked DSLR/mirrorless camera.  All the reactions in this thread are normal and predictable.

If this guy really is a student then it is a good learning experience.  If I did this at my job I would be fired.  There are so many BS rumors, vaporware, and scams out there no one should be surprised by the reactions.

And the legal excuse is nonsense.  That isn't how the legal system nor the world for that matter works.  Go on a thing called youtube.  People mod and alter all kinds of things to function in ways the manufacturer never intended.  And for a discontinued camera?  C'mon.

38 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

How can they dare sell you completely crippled shits for so much money? And people buy that.

I love the rants that answer themselves.  Saves me the effort of thinking.

I enjoyed "Bright" more.

Intellectual sci-fi is a bit of an oxymoron.  Really intellectual people tend not to watch sci-fi.  And sci-fi fans are not that intellectual.

I just didn't get the point of a lot of the movie.  It was so slow moving and played waaayyy fast and loose with the actual science.

SPOILERS!!!!

Also there were no heroes in the movie.  Just a bunch of sad people running around.  The soldier was the only sympathetic person.  There were other sympathetic characters but of the big main characters he was the only one.  He got f-cked over and then he committed suicide.  I thought the woman was a piece of shit so I couldn't really get emotionally invested in whatever was going on with her.  And the end was even weirder than the entire movie.  Were we supposed to be happy she was going to spend the rest of her life f-cking ET?  I mean I was happy the world wasn't going to get destroyed... presumably.  Unless the alien was just doing the Trojan horse thing.  It was weird.  I didn't care about the main relationship that the whole movie revolved around.  I felt bad for the soldier but that was about it.

On 3/9/2018 at 4:17 PM, sam said:

Just hung this up in the living room.   A 4k Hdr tv that looks like a picture/art frame on the wall. It displays an image  as long as motion is detected and adjusts its brighness to the ambient light.

I think that is a bit ecologically irresponsible.  The proliferation of always on or stand by electronic devices in the home is getting ridiculous.  Each one might not be a huge draw but across millions of homes?

We've had perfectly good nonelectronic ways of looking at art for thousands of years.  Reminds me of this...

Just some statistics from wikipedia...

Quote

In Britain in 2004 standby modes on electronic devices accounted for 8% of all British residential power consumption.[5] A similar study in France in 2000 found that standby power accounted for 7% of total residential consumption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standby_power

On 3/1/2018 at 11:39 PM, mkabi said:

How about this... You go talk to one of the rental houses near you. Ask them advice about which camera you should invest in.. and see if you can strike a deal with them too.

I had the C500, and I sold that too. But that guy was telling me to sell it and invest in an $8K follow focus cause that would be rented out more often than my Raven.

In any case, I walked out of this with amazing connections. Most of my jobs are through this Rental house, and from time to time I rent my equipment on a discount.

Thanks.  This is going to be down the road.  Not right now.  But it was nice reading this thread.  I was clueless about this stuff.

2 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

 Another example: I could argue that if you want to buy a camera for your child, then for the same money an LX100 is going to be much better, easier to use and carry around and because of that, produce better results. 

LX100 is a $650 camera!

If my child was getting into photography I would not buy them a small sensor camera.  I also wouldn't get them something that locks them into one lens.   The basis of every photography class I ever took was 35mm and nifty fifty.  End of story.  You explored all aspects of shutter speed, aperture, depth of field, etc.  Start simple and hammer the basics.  After that you can move on to more specialized pieces of hardware for various situations.

I don't know where people got their photography training but there are still high schools and community colleges in America that teach film.  I can't imagine what someone getting into real photography for the first time would need that this camera doesn't have.  Sure 35mm would be nice but that isn't happening below $400.

Photography and videography are very different fields.  Ansel Adams created timeless art with an 8x10 view camera and film.  I would put Ansel Adams work up against any modern photographer using any modern camera of their choice and Ansel Adams would come out on top or certainly be in the running.  Bells and whistles are nice but you simply don't need them to get great shots.  I get DPAF for video because we can't all have a fully rigged out focus pulling system with a dedicated focus puller following us around.  But for photographs?  Can't think of too many innovations beyond basic autofocus that are anywhere near that profound.  Even 8x10 view cameras don't need a crew to operate so there is no feature that eliminates them.

3 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

Exactly. For North America and most Europe there are much better cameras and deals. For the same money you can even get the FF A7 and strap on a manual lens with an adapter and the quality will be miles better.

Sony A7 is an $800 camera!  This thing is being announced at $385.

3 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

Or this https://www.techradar.com/reviews/canon-eos-4000d

However, while this low price point is designed to tempt new users, our worry is that the limited feature set and poor screen will see them quickly revert back to their smartphone.

I wonder what "feature set" this guy thinks would make a difference.  For photography there just aren't that many bells and whistles that matter.  You already have APS-C, interchangeable lens, optical viewfinder, ergonomics, and hot shoe.  If that isn't enough for you a slightly better screen or 1 or 2 more fps isn't going to make a difference.  By the time someone has decided to lug around a DSLR they are on a mission.

47 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Also, 

"I wait for the inevitable price drop."

So, is this in your buying list? I am eagerly awaiting for your review!

Did you read Mattais' post or mine or did you just "ignore" it?  ALL of these cameras drop in price after a few months.  Body only this thing's announced launch price is $385.  A few months down the road on black Friday the price of this camera will be closer to $300 than $400.  That's the jumping off point for doing your analysis.  It doesn't mean I'm going to buy this camera or the billion other cameras I have spoken about over the years.  It means I use real world numbers when I walk down the street and see what is available not some phony aspirational number from a manufacturer or someone making disingenuous arguments on the internet.

As far as reviewing and buying this camera, please read my post before replying...

1 hour ago, Damphousse said:

I could sit here all day analyzing $150K sports cars and $5 shirts from Walmart.  But you know what?  It would be a complete waste of time because I am not the target market for that stuff and I don't know a thing about it nor do I know a thing about the lives of people who buy that stuff.

We are not the target market for this camera.  And after observing the business acumen or lack there of on this forum I don't think there are many businessmen on here.  Canon could very well make plenty of money with this camera... or it could be a money losing flop.  In America we have a company called GAP.  They have at least two other brands.  Old Navy is the low end brand and Banana Republic is the higher end brand.  I have seen Banana Republic shirts on sale with an additional coupon selling for a few dollars more than Old Navy shirts.  It is somewhat unusual but it does happen from time to time.  The Old Navy shirts are garbage.  I steer clear of them.  Banana Republic shirts are high quality.  If you pay attention to the business press the Old Navy brand consistently makes more money than the Banana Republic brand.  There is example after example like that in business.

Quote

Within two years, Konik added he believes Old Navy alone will account for more than 75 percent of Gap's earnings per share. "Old Navy is a powerful and stable business with off-mall real estate, value pricing, and mid-teens margins."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/01/gap-q4-2017-earnings.html

You guys are clueless about business.  And the sad thing is all you have to do is turn on the TV or read something on the internet other than camera snob posts.

The price difference between Old Navy and Banana Republic is far narrower than between a 4000D and a 1dX ii.  But the quality difference to even the casual observer is far bigger.  And yet Old Navy does a tidy business selling their shirts.  It would not surprise me if the same is true for Canon.  You guys post rants but I really don't know what they are based on.

You may think Canon is ripping people off and that this camera has no use case at this price.  That's fine.  That's your opinion.  Hey you might be right.  But to declare Canon are idiots and have made a mistake is a bit much.  I've seen numerous things that I wrote off as money losing crap that turned out to be moneymakers.

2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

@Damphousse you completely ignored the whole article and took just a paragraph out of it in a way that suits you. It is silly trying to fool people like this, we can read.

 

No.  I read the whole article.  I believe others covered other aspects of the article.  In fact it was I who posted the parts that were ignored.  Sorry for breaking the echo chamber.