Damphousse

14 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

There are modified Go Pro 6 available with 19mm all glass, low distortion lens. Better sharpness with almost no glare. 

The PeauPro87 is interesting.  Thanks for bringing it up.

One concern I have is they don't have much good footage demonstrating the results of the mod.  I'll definitely keep my eye out for more footage though.  I'm intrigued.

23 hours ago, kye said:

Despite having lots of nice cameras, I find that I've used my GoPro Hero 3 consistently over the last 5 years, but I'm frustrated with the quality and looking to replace it.

How about a GoPro HERO6 Black?  The image quality will be much better.  If I were you I would look at some comparison videos.  I have NEVER liked GoPros because their image quality sucked.  But I think the tech has finally matured to the point in decent light you can get some good footage.  For the first time I am seriously looking at a GoPro camera.  Which reminds me I need to update my Gopro stock thread.

5 hours ago, DevonChris said:

South West of the Uk where there is not just nice scenery (with low commercial value) but a strong tourism industry, diverse sports and leisure activities, a strong industrial heritage, historic sites, a wide range of artisan producers and crafts, which would require model releases.

You don't necessarily need a model release for videos with people.  Some sites don't require them.  The clips can be used for editorial work.  I find a lot of sites sell royalty free clips for a set price.  That's why I like photo.  You can sell photos rights managed and the price goes way up for advertising vs editorial.  Fixed price royalty free kind of sucks.

5 hours ago, DevonChris said:

It sounds like the camera/gear doesn’t matter. Where have I heard that before :-)

Gear certainly matters!  But you can take an 8 year old Canon Rebel and create 4k time lapses with it.  And 8 bit is okay.  So if you have an 8 bit 4k camera go out and shoot.

I just encourage people to go out and shoot creatively with what they have and see how it goes.  There is no need to spend thousands of dollars on gear if you are going to just give up in a few months.  Shoot with what you have and see whether stock shooting is for you.

If you like it then you can upgrade.  As has been mentioned with the BMPCC 4k coming out the stock video game is going to level up in a few months.

4 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Of course there have been a few complaints along the way, but not many considering the length of this thread.

Yeah, the majority has been positive.  I just got rubbed the wrong way by some of the complaints about the full size HDMI, the USB-C that outputs raw,  and the front button placement.  No one is forcing anyone to use any of those options.  You can ignore all of them and have a perfectly fine $1,000 4k raw recording camera.  If Blackmagic throws in an extra button for free and someone doesn't like it they can just ignore it.  Screaming vloggers shouldn't use this camera is ridiculous.

6 hours ago, DevonChris said:

Camera to shoot stock video?

What camera do you own now?  You could do time lapse photography and make 4k movies from that.

Stock video sites certainly do accept 8 bit 1080p footage.  I suppose if you are going to shoot a bunch of footage it might be best to future proof your work.  Honestly though I would have to check to see if they even accept 10 bit footage.  Due to space constraints some may not.  These clips are going a few seconds long.  As others have stated broadcasters and Netflix have stringent requirements for A cams but B and C cams that are used much less have more latitude and a 10 second clip?  LOTR used a crappy Gopro for a few seconds.  So some 1080p clips aren't a problem.

I don't know where you live but just because the place looks nice doesn't mean clips will sell.  If you are shooting on spec get ready for a less than minimum wage payout.  Unlike photographs I haven't found an easily accessible site that sells stock video footage for a reasonable price.  I've sold pictures for $800+ as a hobbyist.  Usually prices are a lot lower for editorial stuff but $500 sales happen from time to time for advertising.  But that assumes a model and property release depending on which is applicable.

The absurdity of the complaints tells me this camera is going to be a hit.  People really expect a $1,000 camera to have SDI ports?!  There are complaints because for $1,000 a USB C port that outputs raw is tossed in just for fun?!

My how times have changed.  Looking back at what people were begging for three years ago I am rolling with laughter with the critiques in this thread.  If you don't want the camera don't buy it.  But please stop pretending this thing isn't damn near perfect.

Honestly if I were the people at Blackmagic I would tell a bunch of people to f off.  This camera is totally unprecedented.  They've given you the codecs and the ports.  It is up to you to figure out some hacks to make it work just the way you would like.

9 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Look, I've found a right angle USB C adapter.

So I'm not going to waste that bit of research and I'm all for getting another couple of pages out of discussing it now 

 

I did something similar on the original BMPCC with a straight connector for power.  Put the camera in a cage and clamped the connector in place.  Never touched the camera port after that.

3 hours ago, Kieran said:

According to AV Club, he used a Sony mirrorless.

https://www.avclub.com/william-friedkins-ridiculous-documentary-the-devil-and-1825345270

In any case, the image is quite horrible and digital. Kind of makes the documentary look cheap and trashy. 

Agreed.  For whatever reason there are a lot of documentaries out there that look like crap.

I suppose some of them were shot years ago before the large sensor camera thing really came into its own.

I do cringe a lot when I watch documentary stuff these days.  It's embarrassing.  You can pick up a sub $1,000 camera and get excellent result.  There is just no excuse anymore for this type of stuff.

22 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I hope I wasn't that sound snob, but from all the Tascam's mentioned here, the 60 mk I is the worst of them all. Build quality, digital steps for input, battery consumption and issues if loosing power. The only Tascam from that series I used only once and never again, and the 70 costs 35 euros more, not 2000euros. Even the DR40 was more useful on a 20 years career. 

I have no idea.  I don't take that kind of thing personally.  I was just shocked because I did quite a bit of research including listening to A/B comparisons before I purchased.  It wasn't a snap decision.

As far as the mark I is concerned build quality is irrelevant.  I was being denigrated based on sound.  And I am not a pro.  I have never managed to break any of my audio or visual equipment.  Neither have I ever made a claim that my consumer stuff is designed to stand up to the same abuse as all metal pro gear.

Battery is irrelevant.  I have never used the MK I with an internal battery.  I run my BMPCC and my MK I off the same consumer grade Anker battery.   I put the battery in a pocket and run long cables to the camera and recorder.  No need for even a cage.  I do have a cage though just to protect the BMPCC ports.

Digital steps?  Not an issue.  I'm not a pro.  I'm a one man band.  I don't sit there and constantly ride the gain during a take.  I set it and have a back up track.  I also mostly record human voice with a bit of ambient noise from time to time.  As all the reviews state the digital step isn't a problem with human voice unless they are singing and your ride it hard.

And price?  Well you are working with no information.  You have no idea how much I paid for the DR 60D MK I.  It was HALF the current going price of the DR-70D my friend.  No idea where you got that 35 Euros number.  I haven't bought anything in Euros in years.

And anyway it doesn't matter what you think about Tascam.  I trust my own ears and the majority of the people replying in this thread.

I mean I understand the idea of pro gear.  But I also understand the idea of diminishing returns.  I understand that all metal, geared, clickless aperture, similar sized cinema lenses are going to cost way more than consumer lenses even if they aren't noticeably sharper.  I don't think cinema lenses are over priced but I also don't think consumer lenses like Canon's sub $100 nifty fifty are unusable trash.

There are different tools for different jobs but let's not get hyperbolic.

16 minutes ago, kye said:

If this is the case then how can anyone on the internet talk with any authority when according to the above they got the first two versions so wrong?

Not surprising.  I've pointed out ludicrous things numerous times on this forum.  I refer you to just about any NX1 fanboi thread.  Nice camera but I predicted its demise well in advance... and even now when it is dead people still keep talking about a second coming.

Size of the hybrid market is also constantly way over estimated.  I've discussed this numerous times, but some people just want to believe the majority of people are just itching to ditch their iphone and get a hybrid mirrorless camera, a third party lens adapter, and spend hours trolling ebay for vintage glass.

I could go on and on.  People figure out what they like and then extrapolate a nutty theory from that.

21 hours ago, sam rides a mtb said:

I think you are close to hitting the nail on the head.  I don't foresee Canon ever putting something like this together in a product.  It's is somewhat kind of the ideal system revolving around a 4/3 chip - interchangeable pl-style mounts that can have speedboosters built in or just passive adapters.  I could see this being a route Panasonic or Black Magic could go, but now are blocked from doing so because of this stupid patent.  So many good ideas throughout history have probably been lost to big companies buying patents to minimize competition and never get a chance to come to fruition.

Is that how patents work?  So you can patent something and never use it and sue anyone who ever does?!  That doesn't sound correct.  There are a lot of companies that infringe on other companies' patents and a lot of the time they just come to some type of licensing agreement.

Quote

Blocking Patent

A patent held by a third party that blocks commercial exploitation of a first patent, i.e., an essential patent vis-à-vis the invention in the first patent. The usual solution is for both patent-holders to agree to a cross license, often royalty-free. Frequently, when a company is faced with the risk that a competitor will secure a pioneer patent (because it has, for instance, seen the published application) it will seek to obtain blocking patents on essential improvements.

http://www.ipglossary.com/glossary/blocking-patent/

1 hour ago, NX1user said:

Another Tascam DR60d Mk II user here.

I'm a Tascam DR60D MK I user.  Seems the DR60D is the most popular series here.

It's funny in another thread awhile ago a sound snob told me flat out I wasn't serious about audio because I used a DR60D!  I guess he wanted me to pair a $2,000 recorder with my $500 camera!

I've listened to reviews for a bunch of sound records from cheap to painfully expensive and you really have to spend a chunk of change to get a noticeable difference above the DR60D.  That money is better spent on microphones.

On 4/22/2018 at 7:32 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Samsung will be back.

That's kind of a nebulous statement.  Who knows what will happen 20 years from now.  Maybe they will be back.  Anything is possible.  But as for right now?  I doubt they are going to be back any time soon.  Consumer electronics is a rough business.  I said it for years that the camera market couldn't support so many players... at least not profitably.  And I certainly called out the issues with Samsung while a small but vocal group of people were fanboing the NX1.  As I predicted Samsung exited the interchangable lens party in short order.

Now the BMPCC 4k is months away from launch.  If they couldn't last with the NX1 years ago they certainly aren't going to last very long in a post BMPCC 4k world.  $1,300 with full Resolve, raw, false color, recording via USB C, 5 inch touch screen, etc?

On 4/23/2018 at 7:04 AM, ntblowz said:

On my recent trip to Japan, two of my mates (one is doctor one is key animator) upgraded their phone to take better photos, money is not really a problem to them, but they rather spend on new phones than getting a new camera.

Camera is surely going to be more niche in the future, pretty sure Samsung saw it waay before.

SLRs have always been a niche thing.  It's not like in the 80s a quarter of households had a Canon or Nikon SLR and a couple of lenses.

I don't know why people think just because these cameras are digital the majority of people are even interested in them.  People with smartphones have no desire to go out and get some bulky (yes even mirrorless is bulky) device for $1,499 and pay through the nose for some lenses just to take pictures.  Given a choice between that and and a couple of iphones, an ipad, and a netflix subscribtion for a year we know where the money is going to go.  How many single items do most people commit $1,500+ dollars to?!  House, car, maybe TV (if they are a guy).  Well I guess Apple fanbois buy overpriced laptops and desktops for that much but most people don't spend $1,500 at a go on one item.

29 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And it appears Blackmagic and Sony are willing to just about give their stuff away to grab and keep market share. And it also shows how little money is needed to make one of these cameras and still make money doing it. Unless Samsung has some total groundbreaking camera like the 4K BMPCC in a APSC size I think it would be suicide.

Agreed.

59 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I don't know that lens for such gross statement... But, for the goodness sake of it, can you point me any example where you may substantially testify that one?

To each focal length, glass behaves distinctly as usually happens. Different strokes for different folks is more the norm, isn't it? Or no colors in a plain B&W world, is that your shot? You know, I think we should all be eagering to hear from each other. Better facts than mere opinions though ;-)

Well it is objectively an extremely slow lens.  f/5.6 on the "long" end.  I can't think of any legendary f/3.5-5.6 lenses.  If you are looking for low light or shallow depth of field this isn't the lens for you.  And considering the in camera processing that Panasonic assumes with many of their lenses performance is sure to suffer on a Blackmagic camera that doesn't do that processing.

I have the cheaper longer version of that lens.  I only used it a couple of times before I bought a speedbooster and used my Canon 17-55mm f/2.8 IS.  I don't know about the version he linked to but reviews I've seen recommend using smaller apertures for consistent sharpness with heaps of praise at f/8 for my version.   So f/8 on m43.  Say bye to low light and shallow DOF.  I've hung onto my so I could theoretically use it as a walk around lens.  I guess I will do some landscape stuff with it with the BMPCC 4k while I figure out my lens strategy.

8 minutes ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

I used to do training courses for managers from the retail sector. It turns out that the Law is mostly on the consumers side. Take, for instance, a washing machine that has a 2yr warranty & it breaks down a few days after the warranty ends (or even 6mths), the company should still repair it & the shop where you bought it should help you do this. There is also the matter of how long an electrical product should last & in most cases the warranty is complete BS - a washing machine should be able to last a lot longer than 2yrs (most do - i've had mine for 10yrs) & so the warranty should be a lot longer.

Oh Yeah, that 1yr warranty Apple give their customers is absolute shite & scandalous.....

Whoa!  I'm no Apple fanboi.  In fact I am quite the opposite.  But consumer protections vary from country to country and state to state in the United States.  I'm not so sure there are laws everywhere that say a company has to repair something free of cost outside of the warranty period.  That may work in the UK but I have my doubts about the US.

Also one year warranties for consumer electronics is pretty standard in the US.  Apple unfortunately is not an outlier.  I have to say if I were to blow thousands of dollars on an Apple computer I would pony up a few more dollars and get Applecare and extend the warranty.  If those guys had just done that they would be fine.  No sense complaining on the internet.  Applecare covers accidental damage too.

If you really have a mission critical "pro" piece of hardware you pay for the extended warranty and the accidental damage coverage.  It's a freakin' tax write off!

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Good to know thanks. I had the 12-35mm with the OG Pocket and it seemed okay. Most likely I’ll use c-mounts or maybe I’ll get a Voigt. 

I saw a few videos and the Panny 14mm f/2.5 looked pretty good on the original Pocket as well.

Good to know.  I have a kit panny lens but never used it much.  I promptly got the BMPCC specific EF speedbooster and just used my Canon lenses.  I don't like the whole adapter thing and it was kind of dumb to let in all that light with the speedbooster and then have to put on a crazy heavy ND filter but I liked working with a more s35 field of view.

I may follow your lead and get a c-mount or Voigt as a compact walk around solution.

I still have that crappy kit lens so I'll play with that till I make my decision.  I haven't preordered yet so I guess I will get my camera in Summer 2019!

1 hour ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

No CFA, no micro lenses. Weird. 

Really?  Hasselblad's pixels are 5.3 micron.  This things pixels are 75 micron.  Base ISO is 2,100!  Microlenses are not without their issues.

I like B&W pictures.  I can't say I care for B&W movies though.  I wonder what the performance is for the color version.  Could be interesting for architectural videos.  I just wonder if this adds anything to a s35 setup with a tilt shift lens.

Cost is going to be a big factor since this thing is only 12 megapixels.  I mean by the time you lug around an 8x10 view camera might as well just shoot film.  What you will get with film would blow a 12 megapixel camera out of the water.

On 4/16/2018 at 10:57 AM, mercer said:

If I really like the P2, I may get a Panny 20mm and 12-35mm to have a two lens set up. Otherwise my goal is to keep it simple. This camera does so much right out of the gate, that I want to keep it as small and close to handheld as possible... monopod at most... but maybe a chest pod of some sort.

Just a heads up m43 lenses can have some issues.  They cut corners when they design them and then the camera bodies do an on the fly correction to the image before it is written to the SD card.  Since the BMPCC 4k doesn't do these in camera corrections your results will not match what comes out of a GH5 or whatever.  Obviously quality varies from lens to lens.  Some are rated pretty well even without the image correcting interpolation... others... well not as well.  Each lens will require research.

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

I find the title of this topic rather amusing in that regard. 'It's a bomb' means it's a flop or a failure, while 'it's the bomb" means awesome, phenomenal. So I guess you can take your pick.  

Just glad a nonnative English speaker pointed that out.  I didn't want to touch it.  At least he is trying to speak my language.  The OP is Swedish so the slang mangling is to be expected.  Nice effort though.

6 hours ago, mercer said:

On a side note... 

A few years ago I was driving through an urban area and there was a billboard with a McDonalds ad. The ad showed a huge Big Mac  and Ronald McDonald eyeballing it with crazy eyes.

The caption read... “I’d hit that.” Hahahahaha.

Obviously, nobody in the McDonald’s ad approval department realized that “I’d hit that” was a sexual slang phrase.

Wow.  If they are that clueless it must be a joy to work there as a brown person... or if you are under 50 years old!

On a side note... the former CEO was black.  I assume no one ran their urban outreach program past him...  or anyone under 50.

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

The pricing does seem unusual to me. This is like midrange consumer ILC territory, like the G85. When the original Pocket was released, it was selling for what, $995.00? And the GH3 retailed for $1,300.00 at the time I believe. So the Pocket was 30% less than the Panasonic. Now, the Pocket II is going up against the GH5s, so 50% less. And yet many think this is going to kill off not only the Lumix, but many of the lower end cinema cameras as well, at least for budget filmmaking. Before anyone goes off on me, I'm not knocking it, just thinking out loud.

I bought my pocket new for less than $500 so this type of pricing is not unprecedented.  It is an unbelievable deal... so people keep not believing which is fine.  More deals for me.

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not to knock it, but as soon as a future GH5 or X-H1 or A7S gets 4K raw internal, what reason would there be to buy the Pocket?

Price.

Panasonic GH camera price goes up, up, up with each iteration.  Currently the GH5 is $2,000 at reputable retailers with no Davinci Resolve.  GH5s with no internal raw is $2,500.  Add internal Raw?  Say hello $3,000.  Sure the GH series has certain features some people will really want but for me $1,300 with full Resolve is a much better deal.  My depreciation on the camera after years of use will be a few hundred dollars at most.  Panny?  Thousands.

All those cameras will have their markets but $1,300 is hard to beat.

4 hours ago, Axel said:

Pocket and Lumix share something, but it's hard to say what it is exactly. I'd say the Pocket 4k in a way is like a minimalist GH5 or GH5S. The naive fallacy was to think the BM came cheaper. Without IS it definitely needs some kind of rig (imho the less the better). It needs stabilization more desperately than the HD Pocket, and it may be harder to operate on a gimbal (no CAF, the AF is just a function that sets focus once, but doesn't keep it during the shot). It also has no flip out screen, so an external monitor might be necessary (one has to see how good the display is). It doesn't stop there. After two or three month you make a list. And if you add all expenses you might find that you could as well have bought a GH5.

You can use the IS on Canon lenses with a speedbooster.  That is what I do with my BMPCC.  I also use tripods.  I am in the market for a monopod.  A gimble is also in my future.

IBIS does not trounce raw for me, and I suspect many people share that sentiment.  It is amazing how internal raw was the holy grail for half a decade and now people are treating it like trash.  IBIS is great.  But it is not the top feature for everyone.

4 hours ago, cantsin said:

The Pocket 4K doesn't have AF, a flip/tilt display, an EVF, weather sealing, fanless operation, WIFI (including remote monitoring), will have only rudimentary still photography functions, and may require IR cut filters on the lens.

A lot of people who are now considering the Pocket 4K as an alternative to the GH5/s may find out that their shooting style is severely limited by these missing features.

I have a BMPCC and besides crappy AF literally none of that affected my shooting.  Wifi?!  Really?!  Alfred Hitchcock is rolling over in his grave.  A film student saying they can't make a film because... ya know... no wifi!

Full Davinci Resolve and internal raw DCI 4k for $1,300... and this is the complaint list?!

4 hours ago, cantsin said:

And, as @Snowfun wrote above, the two cameras aren't in the same market. You can't even buy a Blackmagic Camera at a normal photo camera retailer.

I've never seen a Panasonic GH camera at any photo retailer in the cities I've lived in.  I've posted about this numerous times.  Most people aren't even aware of the Panasonic GH series.  You go into a retailer it is all Canon and Nikon with a bit of Sony tossed in there.  Some random Panny stuff shows up but the high end Sony and Panny stuff is nowhere to be seen.  Everywhere reputable that sells Panny GH also sells Blackmagic.

3 minutes ago, markr041 said:

And if you already bought Resolve Studio? Why pay for it again? Bundling is an anti-consumer strategy (recall cable companies?) - paying for what you want is what we want.

The camera does not work without the Resolve Studio.  The free version cannot handle all the resolutions.  I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated.

If they sold it without Resolve Studio there would be a bunch of people screaming they got ripped off because the free version of Resolve doesn't work with the BMPCC 4k's high resolution footage.

Seriously guys.  Quit complaining.  Sell your Resolve dongle on ebay for $200 and move on.  This is nothing like a cable company charging you $80 in perpetuity.

Companies have to do what will cause the least amount of post purchase anger.  If they sold it with the free version of Resolve they would be excoriated.

Plus this low price and bundle may be a way of boosting the amount of full versions of Resolve out there.  They may be making a profit on the BMPCC 4k but they may also be using it as a vehicle to get wider acceptance of Resolve as a complete editing and color suite.  I believe the original pocket was their best selling camera ever.  Piggybacking some software sales on to that seems like a smart marketing strategy.

11 hours ago, Aussie Ash said:

Grant Petty talks about Prores raw at 6.4 

Yeah, I simply don't understand the need for this Prores raw thing.  I don't see what it adds compared to compressed Cinema DNG.

On 4/13/2018 at 8:25 AM, KnightsFan said:

@cantsin Lack of white balance controls is really suspicious. Do we know if it's a limitation of ProRes Raw, or whether they just didn't implement that in FCPX? Considering the filesize is similar to other compressed Raw formats, it seems unlikely that the file contains the vastly smaller amounts of data that would preclude having a white balance adjustment. I mean, without white balance adjustment how can it even be called Raw?

Yeah... Just pointless.

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Idk, I think the price is the price. I have a feeling, there may be a revamped “Pro” version of Resolve in the works, which will expand upon the Studio version and this is why they are giving it out for free with the camera.

No.

You need the included full feature version of Resolve to use the camera fully.  The free version of Resolve does not work with all the resolutions this camera has.

3 hours ago, amanieux said:

the weakest point of this camera will be resolution : with only 8 mpix on a bayer mask it means that yuv information will be interpolated in 4k. a 24mpix sensor that scales downs to 4k like sony a6500 will have 3x more details and it will be very easy to notice. 

So will the atrocious rolling shutter.  No free lunch.

Just now, Trek of Joy said:

-1 for my reading comprehension. Oops.

Lol.  No prob.  Happens to me all the time.  I am such a US centric person I tend to be stuck in that mode and overlook the fact a lot of people don't benefit from our wonderful retail environment.  The US has a lot of problems but the retail is SOLID.

1 minute ago, Trek of Joy said:

I've preordered a number of things through B&H, they've never processed payment until they're getting ready to ship - unless you're using something like PayPal. From their site:

"Customers with USA billing addresses will not be charged until the order is processed for shipping. However, a credit card authorization hold occurs at the time the order is placed. Credit card customers with non-USA billing addresses will be charged in full at the time of purchase."

The guy is outside the US.

16 minutes ago, Juxx989 said:

I went with MR. EYEs Suggestion on the day everything changed for us.... it cost $122 to pre-order at HOT ROD.(with Shipping inc.) I just went back to see if they updated the Photo (it was a picture of a BMPCC v1 but with the 4k version name) And I swear they just added the small print that was not there monday: "Deposit is non-refundable" 

There is no way I plan on backing out but... somehow that doesn't seem legal. I paid with paypal though. 

http://hotrodcameras.com/BMP4k

Super shady.