Oscar M.

UPDATE:

 

I will post a video later tonight about this. Basically YES, you CAN get HDMI output from the 50D (output is 1080i) as well as CLEAN HDMI (Not to be confused with uncompressed HDMI) out from the 50D - All while recording RAW!

 

This will improve later also.

 

http://vimeo.com/67271335

 

Keep in mind that if your monitor does not have a "Camera" or crop function, then the output will be 4:3 as the 50D does not output in 16:9 . . .

 

Spanned over several files. I format in camera. The counter on the screen just adds up the MB's, on the card it is split in 4GB chunks.

 

OK. Did you have a chance to see if the video files are seamless? In other words, is there a time gap between the files?

 

Never mind. No way to know until the DNGs can be extracted.

New resolution test with GregoryOfManhattan's Alpha build using hacked mode.

(Check ML 50D topic, alpha testers wanted, send him a message)

Sandisk 32GB 90MB/s CF

3:2 @ 1592x1062 ~ 135 frames
5:3 @ 1952x955 ~ 270 frames
16:9 @ 1592x 895 ~ 480 frames
1.85:1 @ 1592x860 ~ 850 frames
2:1 @ 1592x796 - No skipping!

It can record over 4GB and span! I shot 1592x796 continously, stopped recording manually at 10GB. The buffer is completely fine. But right now the files don't convert properly so it's not usable yet!

Wanted to try anamorphic resolutions like 1440x1062 and 1320x990 but ran out of batteries...

Overall definitely an improvement over the previous build, that gave me these results:

1592×1062 – frame skipping after about 50 frames
1592×840 – frame skipping after about 480 frames
1592×720 – no frame skipping

 

 

Question:

 

Did you mean a single 10GB file, or 10GB spanned on several files? As far as I know Fat32 tops at 4GB per file.

 

If single, is your card formatted as Fat32 or exFat ? . . . . or did you format in camera?

UPDATE:

 

I will post a video later tonight about this. Basically YES, you CAN get HDMI output from the 50D (output is 1080i) as well as CLEAN HDMI (Not to be confused with uncompressed HDMI) out from the 50D - All while recording RAW!

 

This will improve later also.

Oscar thanks a lot!

May I ask just to cast away all doubts: HDMI out is working simultaneously as RAW is being recorded to CF card?

You made my day anyway, have a good day too! )

 

PS Oops, I guess the image on the monitor shows that the camera is recording RAW )

 

That is correct. That was a quick iphone pic I took. I will post the video tonight.

does it give you a clean output though?

 

No uncompressed HDMI. As of now, no clean output either as you'll get the frames counter in the output . . . That may change later.

Hi, Oscar why for example in Photoshop they indicates only 8 bits

I know is 8,16,32 bits per channel so which software can tell us a

project is a 14 bits raw

 

For some reason ACR defaults to those settings. I'm not quite sure which program. . . perhaps opening the DNGs in Adobe Lightroom will be more accurate. I'll try some different ones and see . . .

MOONGOAT, on 27 May 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

lol @ all these people thinking RAW is the be all-end all. Of course it's nice but 1) it's not going to make you any better and 2) it's not going to help you do your job. Actually it's going to make your job harder.

Who said it was? I don't think I've heard that from anyone but you!

. . . and it's not a perfect camera . . . This is not a camera to take to a time-constrained corporate shoot. It's a "LOVE PROJECT" camera.

It's a nice (better than average) stills camera, and a very nice 14-bit RAW video camera - oh, did I mention it costs $400??

But cutting off 2 or 4 bits has nothing to do with floating point calculations. For the processor it takes only to perform a byte-rotating command which is extremely low-resource consuming, as far as I remember from Asm programming. Squeezing 14 bits into 10 or 12 is much simpler than debayering or encoding for sure. So I tend to have big faith in this feature. Ml team really rock....

 

Now, let's beat some dead dogs here ))))

 

Andrew reported that on 5DM3 he can both: have the RAW stream recorded on CF card and have the HDMI feed transmitted to a monitor.

 

Is there any chance 50D could do smth like this?

 

Thanks! )

 

Monitoring - Just tested it with my Lillieput monitor. It works.

 

 

Bullshit. There would have been a million topics about it on this forum if that was even remotely true :)

 

 

I wouldn't suggest Minolta MD/MC or Canon FD glass on Canon EOS mount. It is 'possible', but only with adapters that have an optical element in side. This makes the image quality worse.

 

Safe options for Canon EOS are Nikon F and M42, lots of choice in both systems. Plenty other exotics work as well, Leica R and who knows what more.

 

Look at this table: http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~westin/misc/mounts-by-register.html

Canon EOS has a 44mm register distance. Every system that has a longer distance works. So everything that's below EOS in the list is adaptable in theory.

 

If the adapter is good quality it's OK - It's all about the glass. In any case, I only use it for low light situations.

can i put canon fd glass on that camera?thanks!

 

I'm using a Minolta MD 28mm f1.8 glass with an MD to EOS adapter- the crop factor makes it about 40mm . . . 

Josue Chaparro, on 26 May 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

I'm a complete newbie, but what difference in image quality does 12bit vs 10bit make? I'm assuming that 10bit recording would take up less data…meaning the write speed of a CF card would be less demanding? Would you still get a 50d if you already had an MKIII?

As far as I know, there is a bit of a difference in quality from 14-bit to 10-bit (not a lot) but the savings in space is big. In 12-bit, the difference is minimal and you also get a good chunk saved in space. If the files are smaller, then the camera can write to card faster therefore allowing it to shoot in higher resolutions.

I would not pick the 50D over the MK3. The MK3 has many advantages and newer technology. But for those who are thinking about a lower end Rebel model and want to shoot RAW or if you want a cheap second RAW camera, I would encourage them to seriously consider the 50D.

. . . "There hasn’t been a single negative word from Canon (officially) about Magic Lantern. I think this is the best thing to happen to Canon DSLR video since it began with the 5D Mark II." . . . 

 

I truly believe that Canon should take a closer look at what Microsoft did with the Xbox Kinect because there are many resemblances. Basically people realized that the Xbox Kinect was a major breakthrough in technology, so why use it only for games? The researchers and the scientific community saw the potential so it wasn't long after that the Kinect was hacked. Developers started using it for robotics, virtual reality, virtual modeling, 3D mapping and on and on . . . Sales of the Kinect went trhough the roof! As far as I'm concerned, the Kinect is what made the Xbox the top game console period.

But Microsoft was smart. They seized the opportunity. How did Microsoft react? They embraced the hacking community. Now they even have a development kit for the kinect.

My point is that if Canon is any smart, they too should embrace the hacking community - and I too believe they have.

Right now ML is working on another breakthrough development to shoot RAW in 12-bit and 10-bit. When that happens and with perhaps a development to write to SSD, the 50D will theoretically be able to perhaps shoot 2.5K RAW!!! . . . maybe even 3.5K RAW!!!

 

Get them now while they're cheap!

Great Low light capability compared to H.264 . . .

 

http://vimeo.com/66622780

understood, but i only work on sets, so not understanding the context of the question i was asking you should of not of been so quick to say i dont understand raw, just be careful what you say to professionals on this forum, some people arent as nice as me :)

 

Agreed.

 

Wow 50D is looking very impressive, better than 600D.

 

Ssshhh don't tell ebay!!

 

The cheapest RAW Camera ever made!

exactly, maybe OSCAR M. will see your statement and understand now why i was hoping we could still do a prores capture via hdmi, while recording raw, so that we could negate the transcoding process on set for the raw files, and have the editor to be able to start loading material in the morning after the shoot. thank you.

OK for on set I understand. But for other "not time constrained" projects, why not grade first? which would be pretty easy with DNGs in AE or photoshop. All you have to do is grade one frame and AE will apply it to the rest of the sequence, then export your graded footage to ProRes for editing.

The point is, for grading, ProRes just does not have the shadow/highlight recovery flexibility of RAW dng. I think though that Cinema DNG is the way to go for ML.

LOL . . . The EOS 50D - an ancient camera back to life . . .

 

Great work my friend.

oh, that is terrible then, thanks for your answer!

maybe that will change in the near future, or the ML team will find away to at least put prores onto the SD card simultaneously :)

so what i you already installed the new firmware, can you still load the ML "upgrade"?

 

That would be pointless.

 

Encoding to ProRes automatically nulls the benefits of RAW. If you don't understand why, then RAW is probably not for you. In any case, ProRes will probably not happen - it's Apple licensed.

 

The most logical way for ML to go - if they were to go that route - would be to encode to Cinema DNG which is open and is widely supported by many of the most popular NLEs.

Funny, 50D tests going on. That camera didn't even have a film mode :) It does have live view though, and apparently a relatively big buffer and fast output (UDMA 6, 133Mbps).

 

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5481.0

 

Would be awesome if the ancient 50D turns out to film in raw at higher resolutions than the 600D etc.

 

When you think about it the 50D was basically a scaled down version of the 5D2 and it shares much of the same hardware as the 5D2. I would not be surprized if we can get awsome RAW video from it . . . I have one. Fingers crossed!  B)

I am not concerned about the camera burning out as much as I am about the cards. A lot more write cycles and a lot more intense then typical expectation. But I guess you can view them as disposable if your work deserves RAW treatment. However there is no way at all to have redundancy, and you can easily blow a $5000 shooting day if your cards are toast at the end of it. Total failure you might detect with periodic offloads but the worst would be glitches and skips right in your best takes that you don't see till long after wrap.

Simultaneous uncompressed HDMI out to a Ninja would be a nice safety...a proxy on the internal SD card would be at least something. I always record to the internal SD cards on the C100 even though they are only safeties for the Ninja footage. Regardless, we are going to learn everything about the state of Compact Flash in the coming weeks.

It's a matter of CF hardware reliability. A card that can handle the speeds from a reliable manufacturer should be sufficient. Isn't that how we shoot h.264 anyway? My gut feeling is that ML will figure out a way to get RAW out the HDMI, or a CF to SATA adapter is going to be made by someone out there.

Oscar your analogy doesn't work. That RAW live view massive image is now written onto newly developed cards So for that much information to get written onto the card it must create heat. Maybe not as much as line skipping binning or whatever the 5D does But maybe more. 

But so far so good. 

 

Canon's firmware is saving that massive image to the camera's internal buffers which is then output to Live View - as Alex explained it. All ML is doing is saving the buffer to CF. These internal buffers are engineered by Canon to be very fast buffers which is why they can handle 4K RAW BURST Stills mode.

 

The bottleneck is in the speed of the cards - CF Cards are just not fast enough for 4K RAW 30fps bursts (even the 1000x cards). They are though fast enough for a crop mode of that such as 1920x720. This bottleneck will not last much longer as manufacturers are sure to increase the performance of these cards.

 

As I see it, the temperature sensor in the camera does not lie - the tests have shown that the temperature has not increased very much. OTH, CF Cards temperatures will indeed increase as they will work harder to write the files, but even that won't be an issue as the cards get faster as well.

Excellent summary and update. I do share Vince's skepticism with regard to heat damage over a long period of time. Heat & Dust are the arch enemies of Digital Video and we know that 4K processing in a small container is going to result in parts decay eventually. Then again, this update is really for the installed base. I wouldn't run out and buy this camera just for 4K ( knowing that in the horse race, first out the gate, only sets the pace). No doubt, Nikon ( last out the gate) and the others are looking closely.
I'm still hopeful for that 4KRaw 10Bit in a smaller box but NOT a DSLR. Hell may freeze over before I get that wish fullfilled.

 

People still don't get how the Camera actually processes images. I'm going to oversimplify this . . . Magic Lantern is doing nothing more than saving "LIVE VIEW". If heat were an issue, then it would be an issue without Magic Lantern since these cameras were engineered with Live View in mind and. . . . Live View puts out RAW anyway.

 

Consider this analogy:  

 

Imagine a river that runs down a mountain. At or near the top of the river you can get pure, clear water. Near the bottom of the mountain, the water looks murky and polluted from various animals, dirt, trees and other processes. A few guys that lived near the bottom of the river decided to obtain clean water from this river but did not have the means to set up a water processing plant. So, they decided instead to travel up river to where the water is free of pollutants. They setup shop on the side of the river so as not to pollute the river themselves and with simple empty buckets, they scoop up crisp, clear water for cooking and drinking.

 

RIVER = Canon DSLR Camera

WATER = Live View

GUYS DOWN RIVER = Magic Lantern Firmware

COOKING & DRINKING = CF Card and Post processing workflows (garbage in, garbage out!)

 

 

GET IT?

Andrew, just wondering have these been your temperature settings for all your other RAW sample videos? Just wondering if this would be the offset for all RAW frames coming out of the sensor . . .