rishaar

Andrew, I think you're overlooking engineering issues that are pulling the market apart, between DLSR for photos, and cameras for video.

 

A DSLR is designed to use a large sensor to get the richest color from wide angle lenses on up.  The physical constraints of diffraction and focal length cannot be marketed away.  In other words, an APS-C sized and above sensor will provide the  high resolution still photographs, better than any smaller sensor, from MFTs on down (in 4:3) aspect.

 

What that means, of course, is that you must skip sensor lines to maintain the same focal length.  So DSLRs are primarily high resolution photo cameras.  If they don't skip lines they have to use crop mode which increase focal length.  Then you can get moire-less video, but again, at the cost of focal length and you put the lens under great resolving strain.

 

Yes, the MFT cameras do great video, but mostly because they use small sensors that don't skip lines and are optimized for video.  As photo cameras they are not as good as large sensor cameras, mostly because of physics (of light and sensor design).  No professional photographer would pick an MFT camera over a full-frame.  

 

I'm with you in spirit on the article.  But I think you have to temper expectations with some engineering realities.

 

I spend every day working on my 50D RAW (which you turned me onto) and an EOS-M.  The real question is whether manufacturers believe there is a market in high color depth, dynamic range in consumer equipment.  I believe there is.  I hope there is!

That exactly ;)

The only thing the BMCC shares with a mirror-less camera like the gh3 or nex-6 is the form factor.

 

We can't just compare its video performance saying "look at what you can get for 1000$ " while totally ignoring the still performances.  So looking at the pictures of your article, i see apples and oranges.

 

But i guess that's exactly what Black magic design marketing guys had in mind ;)

What a great choice of music, you just made my day ;)

Somebody has to say it, so i'll go first.

 

2012: BMCC (Black Magic Cinema camera)

2013: MLCC (Magic Lantern Cracked camera)

Those Odyssey 7/7Q are a marvel of technology, reading the specs list i still can't believe thay were able to fit that much is such a small package.

That price point in pair with the possibility  to rent the recording codecs, in my humble opinion, this is as revolutionnary as the BMCC for this industry.

 

Also, it is really nice to see Sony opening up to 3rd party manufacturers like that for a change. They seem ok to cannibalize a bit their own much more expensive new recorder, i guess they cater it for the f5/f55 crowd anyway.

 

@Husah is right, the fs700 will drop in price in the coming months or come with the new firmware. 

I just got my fs100 last month brand new for 2800USD in Japan, it was a month limited Sony sale...they do that a lot recently.

Whatever comes out on the specs side, this exagonal prototype is really neat !

 

If the new mount on the DSLR is something  kind of "universal", that could be very interesting. 

 

Anyway, Sony is clearly showing they continue to push forward their pro-sumer/pro video line-up, that's the good news!

-----------------SOLD---------------------------- Thank you !----------------------------------------------

 

Hi guys !

 

I don't need to explain how great this particular model is, arguably the best from Kowa.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't fit my work , mostly TV projects, so it has been sitting in my bag for 6 months now...

Before i decide to put this set on ebay, i'd rather make someone of the community happy ;)

 

-Kowa Prominar Anamorphic 16-H (2x) serial number 53695 (Purchased in Tokyo)

As you can see on the pics, the lens is in great condition. No external scratch on the body, the glass is clear and the focus ring is smooth. With original front & rear caps.

 

-Redstan lens clamp (red) This is the model for the 16-H, a perfect fit (rear thread becomes 62mm)

-Redstan front filter , perfect fit as well (front thread becomes 72mm)

 

For those who like, i'll give as present (not a big deal...) :

-one diopter Kenko N0.05 (f2000)

-one 72mm cap

-one 49mm to 62mm step-up ring

 

Asking price: 600 USD (Shipping by EMS & insurance included)

Please contact me

-----------------SOLD---------------------------- Thank you !----------------------------------------------

 

[attachment=360:kowa-8.jpg][attachment=359:kowa-7.jpg][attachment=358:kowa-6.jpg][attachment=357:kowa-5.jpg][attachment=356:kowa-4.jpg][attachment=355:kowa-3.jpg][attachment=353:kowa-1.jpg][attachment=354:kowa-2.jpg].

Since  the costume and prop departments working on The Hobbit are the top of the cream and already did their very best, i guess it is safe to assume that 48fps is just too challenging for Fantasy movies...

 

Remembering some the excellent BTS series online, i couldn't count how many times you hear the make-up/set artists (discretely) complain about 48fps and the need to do everything more in red (somehow because the camera)

 

I agree with Andrew, i think an hyper-real life thriller would be awesome!

"super-realistic" and truely immersive movie could be a new trend, kind of The end of Watch (i haven't seen it , just mentioning the genre)

[url="http://cinescopophilia.com/cameras-used-in-the-end-of-watch-movie/"]http://cinescopophilia.com/cameras-used-in-the-end-of-watch-movie/[/url]

What? The comparison is made on the basis that the BMCC has even shallower DOF than Super16mm film, which is what "Black Swan" was shot on, being DOF (sensor size) one of the complaints of many people. Goes on to make the point that you don't need shallow DOF to make a good movie.
Yet comparing the 7D to a movie shot on Super35 has nothing to do with the aforementioned comparison, because there's no digital equivalent to film in the 7D, unless you're doing stills. Comparing RAW to film isn't the same as comparing 8bit h264 to film.

Sorry if you misunderstood me.  I was just talking about the comparison made on the sensors sizes, as was Andrew i believe, not the codec nor how RAW and 8bit h.264 compare to film. Or course the BMCC is more filmic, but that wasn't the topic ;)

 

I believe the problem adressed by many people regarding the sensor size isn't so much about DOF than about access to a variety of good & affordable lenses.

I guess it isn't so much of an issue if you already own a Micro 4/3 camera & glass.

But many (ex)DSLR shooters, which are the main market for a 3.000$ price range camera, already invested quite a lot in good primes, vintages or zoom lenses for full frame or APS-C, knowing that even if they decide to step up to a S35 camera like the fs100, fs700, c100... or even switch to another brand DSLR they will still be ok and keep the same property of each lense.

 

Of course you can still use most of this glass with the BMCC, but it is an issue nevertheless for some people and in some scenario.

Not to pick a fight here, but i'm sure Aronofsky doesn't shoot on old Nikons or Canon zooms... :D

Million dollar blah blah blah. So you're suggesting the reason Aronofsky movies are good is because they are expensive. If you look at the way he conceived of and shot Black Sawn I think you'd change your mind! I'm not against your argument for shallow DOF and good cinematography giving a low budget shoot a higher production quality and DSLRs are great for this. Your conclusion about me being some kind of apologist for the BMCC is way out of order though. It is superior technology.

Black Swan wasn't shot on the BMCC, i don't understand why you keep bringing that up. 

It's like defending the 7D Aps-c sensor idea by pointing to any good looking Hollywood movie shot on S35 -_- Not to mention it is Film... 

can this thread go more childish...

my camera that i dont own is better than your camera that u dont own ....

people need a lot of talent and craft to use full potential of both cameras ...

+1 for that :)

 

Andrew, i understand you are a very passionate person, but i believe your inconditional love for the BMCC and recent hatred towards Canon is slightly biasing your comments.

That beeing said, i believe the c300 is a great camera , but not really a "cinema"  camera. With the broadcast friendly internal codecs and recording media, form factor and all, it is clearly aimed at ENG/documentary...The price is expensive, but it is for people who can make a living out of it, so not such a big deal.

 

Regarding the BMCC sensor size, it is an issue for many people whether you agree or not.

You keep refering to some great movies shot on 16mm but sorry i see  no connection with the topic at all. 

 

The BMCC is truely a revolutionary camera at a crazy price tag. But it is known that BM people were limited to that type of smaller sensor for budget & technical reasons, not artistic ones.

This camera design is extremely minimalist (which is very nice) just a sensor, disc recorder & touch screen in a box. But even then,  this is a big & heavy box, compare to say a GH2 with a similar sized sensor.

That makes one wonder how big and expensive it could have become with a S35 and the hardware to process RAW data...like a F5 for example.

 

My point is : this camera is a revolution and we should welcome it with open arms.

But those unmatching comparisons & over-heated debates are a bit pointless.

I have high hopes from ML guys, they already did so much !

Just donated $50 too !

Very nice piece!
Acid trip and David Lynch in 45s :)

Wow, thanks Andrew !!
I'm curently grading multicam footage from a couple of canon XA10 (AVCHD) and i must say you made my day (or week!)
Many thanks!

Very exited about this little wonder ;)

Apparently, ND & CPL filters on the way:
http://cheesycam.com/nd-or-cpl-filters-for-sony-rx100/
No more excuses to miss a good shot !!

[quote author=gene_can_sing link=topic=649.msg4807#msg4807 date=1335563066]
It almost seems a little too easy. Like the guy in charge of Firmware security knew that the 5D3 was so crippled, that in order for the camera to sell well to the video crowd, he needed to make it and easy ML hack. Or else, sales to video people would no be up to par.

I seem to remember it took Vitality months to hack into the GH2 because the encryption was so strong. The 5D3 firmware just came out 2 days ago, and it seems like the ML team was in within a day.

Well, I guess none of us are complaining.  :)
[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing. 8)
They managed to block the 7D pretty well and would have more reasons to lock the mkIII now with the C cameras out.
Remember how a Canon guy was telling about the clean HDMI out on the1dx, saying it is not gonna happen because of the "video division".

That would be the perfect answer from the "Still division", a good way to raise the  finger without any direct confrontation, potentially increasing sales in this niche.
Everyone win and keep the face  8)

But who cares eh? Go Alex !!

[quote]this to me applies to Sony and the error here is judging an entire society as a whole. Look at Toyota and you find huge investments on Hybrid cars that are going to get disruptive soon.[/quote]

My point exactly  ;)

As you mentioned later, many big companies had (or still have) the same conservative approach and it is just a matter of time before Canon will be forced to change tactics.

The problem (for us) is that they still make boatloads of money in consumer and pro markets, so it might take a while :'(

[quote author=Giovanni Bertani link=topic=621.msg4544#msg4544 date=1335135022]
Something from CNET written quiet exactly on the culture behind Canon 5D Mk3

Sony's slow but sure descent is also about Japan's obsession with doing things the Japanese way, even if it's the wrong way, says CNET's Brooke Crothers.

[url=http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-57414373-64/sonys-fall-and-japans-hang-ups/?tag=mncol;editorPicks]http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-57414373-64/sonys-fall-and-japans-hang-ups/?tag=mncol;editorPicks[/url]

[u]Stuck on incremental, not disruptive innovation[/u]
[/quote]

This article has some good historical points regarding the "bubble" era's mentality of the 80's.

But assuming  "the seeds of Japan's technological-industrial undoing" he believe he witnessed at the time are the only cause for Japan tech-companies misfortune is pretentious and outdated.
Like there couldn't be any other factor involved during the last 20 years ?!

Anyway, this is the type of "cliché" i see countless time on cheap documentaries and poor analysis about the so called "Japanese society".
People like to hang to those packaged theories about Japan as a static traditional society, it reassure them.

Thank you for updating the post, many important details were unclear.

I really was a fervent supporter of Canon, even with the 5dmkiii, i hate people judging spec list....but this is going too far this time.

No matter how hard i look, the 1D-C just seems to be an unlocked 1DX, i mean they couldn't even get the 16/9 display on this thing?!?! This is supposed to be aimed at Cinema Professionals ?

In the current market, how on earth any industry pro would pickup such a 15K$ DSLR, with all the compromises and missing pro features ,  over a fully specialized Video Camera with specific strong points like the FS700, Scarlett, or C300 ? (form factor maybe...that's an expensive luxury then)

As someone mentioned before, for this price you could get a FS700 and a 5Dmkiii, and some lenses...

[quote]my point was that it's not revolutionary. everytime a new camera appears it has some new feature but lacks a bunch of others.  [/quote]

exactly ! under 30K, i believe every professional camera is a compromise. They give you some piece of tech but fail to deliver the whole package.
i don't know whether they technically can't at this price tag or if it's just market driven, but every single manufacturer (even the self-appointed "revolutionary" RED ) does the same.

Also, we have to consider the accessories: $5K for 4k recorders, $15K for cinema glass, wireless Follow Focus...
i guess it is not targeted at $3-4K body shooters.

It's an extreme way to improve video quality of course, but you gotta love the whole DIY spirit  :)
Can't wait to see some footage!

I was mostly marked by this thread:
http://***URL not allowed***/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39999

it is an interesting test posted by a user , but it quickly turns into ALL-I vs IPB ... 7 pages so far (!?) so if you have the patience  ;)
i believe the thread just after this one is about how ALL-I look varies between FCP and PP CS5.5

I'm guessing NLEs are a little bit behind this, but upgrades and CS6 will probably fix this (it happened before)

Andrew, can you please elaborate about the export profile in PP cs5.5?
[quote]I exported to H.264 High Profile, level 5.1 from the original ALL-I 1080/25p which is level 5.1 originally.[/quote]
Do you mean you created a custom profile mimicking the ALL-I properties? Beside level 5.1, what target bitrate did you use, and how many Pass?

I believe this is a really important breakthrough, more and more people are saying (on forums of course) the ALL-I is crap compared to the IPB, which i find very intriguing.
NLE compatibility and/or export settings sounds more plausible.

Andrew, thank you !
you've just rocked my world !!!! ;D  I was hoping you'll do an anamorphic short with the MKiii because this is the look i prefer above all.
you are doing a wonderful job not just testing cameras, but also inspiring people.

Very good article !

I believe too many people are about dramatic & revolutionary specs, that was the case with the Scarlet VS the C300...but now everybody is saying the c300 is a killer camera. :P

Tech-specs aside, one other important aspect is the robustness of the built. 
Sony Nex series or the GH2 are very good but tend to suffers hours of shooting or bad weather condition, which can be a trouble if you wanna use it as your work horse. Well at least for me it is important  ::)