JHines

The Canon Cinema line is the worst thing to happen to the Canon brand imo. They've stopped all progress in regards to image quality on the video side of things with their dslr's based on the underwhelming specs of their more expensive "C" cameras that they don't want to best.

What Canon should do is offer legit pro cameras with high frame rates and raw recording ability with all the bells and whistles for top dollar. Maybe a camera that actually commands its price. 

DSLR's should be B and C cameras to these high end "Cinema" cameras that can offer similar image quality at the standard 24p and 30p frame rates, that way people can actually afford to buy multiple cameras. 

The XC10 is the most bizarre, over-priced camera that's really unbelievable Canon would even produce such a product. With releases like this I've lost pretty much all hope but I wish they would deliver stunning 4K video quality in the next 5D4 update. I'm not holding my breath... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQkjRMmh_-I

Here's a half-decent sample in Canon DSLRs' worst nightmare, wide detailed shots. Image looks quite clean.

Looks like a clean image but it looks like the same in-camera processing that smudges fine detail. Definitely looks like mud. Hopefully Magic Lantern can work their magic and get raw out of this for the 4 people who buy this camera. 

Lol! No.  The camera market is really maturing.  There is no room for five or more players.  Panasonic gave their camera division an ultimatum to right their ship by 2016 or they were going to axe the entire department.  Things like the massive BMPCC sale this summer and now possibly this effort from Samsung are not going to help their cause.  A massive shake out is going to happen in the coming years.  But one thing that will endure is 4k.  The genie is out of the bottle.

 

 
A video has been posted...
 

 
It's only youtube but the camera looks like it has potential.

 

 
Are you watching it on a 4K screen?  All sharp highly detailed 4k videos on youtube streamed to 1080p monitors look like they have aliasing.  I mean the camera could suffer from aliasing but I would need a better test than that to make that determination.

Just watched it again on my 15" retina mbp and the aliasing was no where near as bad as on my other monitor. Looks good!

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Looks promising.

create your own music ,or commission someone to create for you .

 

taking someone elses music without permission is just pain copyright theft and technically illegal, and it only now the Music Industry is very very slowly catching up and clamping down on Youtube (which survives on totally illegal content ) and Vimeo that is also guilty of this.

All these companies know they are profiting from illegal content uploaded onto their sites, they have just done nothing for years to stop it. as it makes them money and not the artist or record company,

They should have done this 10 years ago , then the music industry would not be in such a dire mess it is now!

 

I have personal experience of this as I was nominated for a Grammy and have Produced and Remixed over 400 records worldwide and had over 90 top 40 hits , 65 + Gold, Silver and Platium Records in my 25 year career in the Music Industry as a Record Producer under the name Love To infinity.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_to_Infinity

 

http://www.discogs.com/artist/11911-Love-To-Infinity?type=Credits&subtype=Remix

Another service will pop up and everyone will migrate there. Copyright law is flawed in the internet age and it's going to be a while before it straightens itself out. Vimeo must of been pressured by the big wigs to tighten up. Sad day for Vimeo. 

The only thing we can expect from the Canon Cinema line is a price way above what the specs are worth.  C200 - 8 grand, C400 - 15 grand. Awesome. Cannot wait to not buy any of these. 

Wow. Hardly any difference. 

I'm done arguing about this. All I wanted to say was that I thought this piece was underwhelming image quality-wise. I hope more footage comes out and makes me completely disregard all of this because I want to buy the BMC4K camera. The specs it offers are absurd for the price point it is at. Looking forward to its raw implementation because I'm sure it's going to be better than the prores it currently only shoots. 

Yet you started this thing by comparing a 720p video from the BMPC and a 1080p video from the 5D. At least rethink your arguments over a new comparison either having them both at 720p or both at 1080p and see how it holds up.

Let's have a look at my first comment - 

"I'll watch the 4K file when it comes out but just comparing the streamed versions of both, 5D3 raw looks more appealing to me, color quality especially. "

Vimeo converts any file format you upload to their own file format for streaming. You know what this means? It's called a level playing field. If you shoot something at 6K with a Red Dragon and upload it to Vimeo and you upload another video shot by a 5D3 at 1920 x 1080p, I don't care what Vimeo does, the Red 6K file converted by Vimeo better look more detailed than the 5D3 one, especially if the subject matter is nearly identical.

Let's look at my next comment, written minutes later - 

"I'm comparing both streamed and downloaded ORIGINAL FILE versions and Genesis blows it away. PERCEIVED RESOLUTION Andrew. Thanks for the update that it was shot in different light. Obviously the 4K will have more resolution on paper and with the original file(4K) but the 5D3 at 1920 x 720 looks more appealing to me than the BMC piece at 1920 x 1080(which is being streamed as of right now). Just my opinion. "

Key words to read and comprehend are ORIGINAL FILE. The BMC4K piece original file is 1920 x 1080p and 5D3 piece original file is 1920 x 720p, so I really am not understanding why you think the BMC4K original file downloaded from Vimeo is 720p when it's the 5d3 piece that's 720p. Please clear this up for me. 

Compare it with this video he shot at 1080 with Canon 1DC and a Atmos Pro Res recorder :

Looks incredibly detailed. This was shot on a much cloudier day and with way more swell in the ocean, making for much mistier conditions yet it still looks night and day sharper than the BMC4K piece. 

come on guys.  the image below is shot with what looks like a lens that is twice the focal length.  obviously the framework on that derelict pier is going to ping more on the image below - it fills twice the amount of imaging area!.  and the image on the bottom appears to me to have seen less subtle sharpening in post.  

 

Finally, depending on the lens and the light source the edges of the framework are going to bleed differently due to the contrast differences between sky and framework.  

 

Those grabs are less than worthless in the debate

Yes the lighting is different. Yes the composition is different. Yes the focal length and compression is different so I applaud you for letting us know all of this. Despite your points, EVERY shot in the BMC4K shot looks inherently softer than anything in the Genesis piece which both were primarily shot with the same Canon 70-200 2.8 IS II lens. That wasn't the only shot I could have used as an example but it was telling to me because I regularly shoot ocean landscapes myself.  Both of these pieces were shot on clear days with light winds. Shooting at longer focal lengths near the ocean typically brings out a milkiness in the image due to sea mist in the air, especially when compressing an image at 200+mm. The BMC shot should have had the advantage being that it was shot 4K and not at 200mm but the 5D3 image just pops even though it was shot at a much longer focal length. Also, in the winter time the air is typically much clearer and less humid than during the summer when there's more humidity, which would again give an advantage to the BMC 4k image.  

I'm not alone in thinking this piece was a bit underwhelming with its technical quality but maybe it was the quality of the ND filter affecting the image more than anything. Maybe there was more pollution in the air or something.  Looking forward to Jame's 1DC-BMC4K comparison. Thinking the 1DC will be a clear winner.

Stop polluting the forum with crap.

 

My only request.

Very mature comment. Glad you encourage people to share their opinions on this public forum. 

I'm comparing both streamed and downloaded ORIGINAL FILE versions and Genesis blows it away. PERCEIVED RESOLUTION Andrew. Thanks for the update that it was shot in different light. Obviously the 4K will have more resolution on paper and with the original file(4K) but the 5D3 at 1920 x 720 looks more appealing to me than the BMC piece at 1920 x 1080(which is being streamed as of right now). Just my opinion. 

Really didn't think this looked all that great, especially compared to his work here -

"Since then Canon have moved video pros onto their own dedicated line (Cinema EOS) and left advanced amateurs to a sea of crocodiles."

Bahahaha! So true. The 5D3 raw video image quality with Magic Lantern will not be bested by Canon for another 2-3 years, count on this. Hopefully their Cinema line goes out of business so they can actually provide value to normal people that don't spend 16 grand on a 1080p 8-bit shooting camera. 

 

I'm also on the fence for a new camera, and have just sold my GH2, because it just wasn't my cup of tea. The GH4, or what has been shown so far, has this incredibly plastic video feel. Reminds me of old Red One footage, but with extra THIS IS VIDEO smacked on it.

 

Was the "Light of the Yucatan" piece shot at 30p? It definitely looked video-ish and too smooth. Looked like TV programming. 

Showing up as 1364 X 766 files in Premiere CS6 and in my finder on my MBP Retina. 

It's disturbing that no Japanese company really wants to push technology that's readily available to the masses. How hard is it to put in a gig or two of fast ram for the camera to write to and them dump to a slower memory card? How hard is it to put audio meters on the display? How hard is it to record 4K at 24p? I'm tired of Sony, Canon, Panasonic and every Japanese brand that continues to pump out bullshit 8-bit 1080p mush. Step the f--k up and do something you bunch of conservative, profit-squeezing, planned obsolescent lame companies. 

More 8-bit 1080p mushy resolution producing cameras with shitty highlight control. Hell, even the FS700 has shit highlights. It's going to be a few years before anyone tops the 5D3 ML raw video quality for under $5,000, which is sad.

https://www.facebook.com/VillageViDock

Here's a cleaner solution. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl6ma4xjNPU

Canon will not release a DSLR that shoots better video than what the current ML 5DIII raw shoots for the next 3 years. We may get some higher resolutions but it will never be raw. "Compressed 8-bit, soft res video 4 life" - Canon

http://www.viddler.com/v/7fadd6ab

 

This example is so compressed I can't tell much about moire. Looks pretty much like standard Canon stuff. Let's hop the moire is gone, though I'm not too hopeful...

Looks just as soft as all previous DSLR's. Not really excited about this camera. The touch screen rack focusing ability looks cool.