HurtinMinorKey

The question is about camera characteristics, no need to mention shooter or editor, or lighting, or what you smoke, or use to drink after your dinner when it's raining outside and starting to get dark ...

Then modest DOF and ~24fps and ~180 degree shutter, and >=720p resolution are pretty much necessary conditions (but not sufficient) for the standard classic "film look". So that means pretty much any camera nowadays.

But the responses you see are the result of the OP being a loaded question. i.e. camera's play a small role in creating the "film look" and without other elements, it's just not going to happen, no matter what camera you have.

One of the reason why we associate the "film look" with film, is because film is expensive. So there is a selection bias in the quality of what we see.  Most of what we see as film has high production value, and therefore lighting, framing, camera movement, and editing are all of a standard that is well above the amateur film-making we see done by most DSLR filmmakers today.

Some of the best looking films and best looking photographs are completely void of conventional "lighting".  They have no contrived placement of artificial light.  Instead it's the shooter's eye and ability to capture what is naturally occurring in an artistic way or their ability to put their subject where the best light is naturally occurring.  An inverse of the conventional artifice.

I still consider making the best use of natural or available light under the realm of "lighting". So we are not in disagreement.

Of course putting numbers on everything is silly (but fun), although I still think lighting is the most important factor. A great camera and good post can make up for it (at the expense of a lot of time). But having the lighting and framing perfect is what makes a great scene.

30% the shooter,

60% the editor,

10% the camera.

50% Lighting

20% Shooter (who may also be responsible for controlling light)

20% Camera-Lenses.

10% grading

Long ago we heard something about a RAW video burst mode, or some other innovative video feature.  If they put 4GB of ram on it, they could give it 8 seconds of rull res burst, that would be sweet.

Global Shutter is nice but I'm not willing to trade it for DR and lowlight performance. Shooting a lot of action on the GH3 at 50p means rolling shutter not noticed for the most part other than camera flashes or lightning. The GH4 should improve on that even more with its 50% improvement on sensor. If you need 4K raw, this is the camera. For everything else I think the Panasonic is a much better thought out camera.

We really won't know until the masses get their hands on them.

My biggest complaint about the Blackmagic cameras is that their firmwares really need improvement. It would seem to be the easiest thing for them to fix, yet they somehow don't...real head-scratcher.

In their defense, the pathway to seemingly trivial firmware features is laden with a minefield of patents. The less BM has to do to data from the time it leaves the sensor to ending up in storage memory, the less BM has to worry about potential patent holdup.

Things just got a whole lot interesting.

 

Now the question is...shoud I sell my 5D3 with ML raw?

Probably not, but you should thank BM, because 5D3 Raw probably wouldn't exist without them. :D

I really want to see how the global sensor holds up to a ton of motion.

Exact, dual gain 11-bit dac on the current BMCC sensor... so nothing new...

But then why is BMCC 12bit raw? Do they just concatenate the extra data? The only thing I could want from BMCC is a slightly bigger sensor, and the accompanying low-light performance. 

@eoshd, remember, you said yourself there is no garuntee that these are the sensors going into BMCC updates.  Plus, they could always up the SSD controller, and do crazy things like 16bit raw, or 12bit raw at 4K (pushing up against the write speed of the faster SSDs).

Now, i'm still on the fence for buying a BMCC, but is this site for real?

http://www.teltec24.de/product_info.php/info/p28615_HD/DV/Blackmagic_Cinema_Camera_MFT.html

Am i missing something here? That's about 5-600 euros cheaper than other European sites.
What's the best deal available for the BMCC?

That works out to about $1999.00 (US) so it doesn't seem that far off the mark.

No, two 11 bit ones.

 

Now the question is - how are they used?

Maybe this is their way of implementing dual gain?

22bit A/DC? Seems crazy.

here's the GH4 4k footage.

dont forget to adjust your playback settings to 4k on the Youtube playback window. 

Nice, my first chance to use my new 3200X1800 screen. Looks pretty darn good. They weren't going for cinematic, but the detail is pretty darn amazing.

The source signal is 10bit 4:2:2 from the sensor.

Isn't the sourcce signal 14bit, and then it is compressed to 10bit 4:2:2? I think this is one of those things where we will not know how good the 10bit is until we actually see it.

Maxotics, correct me if I am wrong, but i see the true 10 bit process as:

take 16 MP raw image data, impute the RGB values for the output resolution (4K or 1080), throw away some chroma info (chroma sample at 4:2:2) then compress it to 10 bit.  In this example, you are basically left with a 10 bits of pure pixel readouts for whatever your output resolution was. So for 1080, you would have 10 bit readouts of 1,036,800 Green, 518,400 Blue 518,400 Red. But this would be more like 500Mbps than 200Mbps, so the rest of the compression is done by the codec.

BMCC ProRes is about 220Mps, so there is a chance that the GH4 image is comprable, but it won't be capable of doing it in-camera.

A crop out of the center of a fisheye will still have heavy distortion. Check youtube or vimeo for examples.

Agreed, and even non fisheyes will have distortion. I notice slight distortion (enough so that I won't use unless it's a wide shot) with my Rokinon 16mm on a BMCC.

Sachtler ACE.

To skimp on your tripod is insane. You'll have it for 5X longer than you will your camera.  Friction heads just won't cut it.

I noticed today that scaling doesn't appear to work with VImeo when using the latest Internet Explorer. Works fine for Firefox and Safari.

Anyone else have this issue?

Also, is it me, or has viemo lost contrast in the past year? I seem to notice a dramtic loss of contrast compated to the screen cap when i press play.

I know they have changed their player up recently and i don't recall any of these issues occurring previously. Anyone else having Vimeo quality issues?

I'm surprised you put the 5D3 h264 above the GH3.

Odie, 

Tell us which one it is or I will call party-foul. 

GH3, at 60fps? Looks like limited DR though, so probably not the Dragon. But it might be the grade. Set looks kinda expensive to be using a GH3 though...

Resolve light doesn't have everyting you'd want to practice:

Here are some more plus minuses:

Pro 5D3: Ergonomics (by far)

Con 5D3: No audio (yet), definately no pro audio inputs though.  Weird motion cadence when their is a lot of movement in the shots (maybe this has been fixed). It's almost as if the shutter angle is not being set honestly.

Pro BMCC: Storage, being able to use a nice big SSD is awesome.

Con BMCC: Some moire. Although if you downsample from 2.5K it's not that bad. But in the right setting, it CAN ruin a shot.

Tried bumping the active topics, but the spam keeps flooding in. How does this still happen? Can't he put a cap on the number of topics that new members can start? And/Or maybe automatically kill posts made by a member who has been reported as spam by multiple sources.

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