Andrew Reid

I agree it's not entirely fair to compare new to used but it's a reality of the market, if you had the chance of a better spec for less money, and it was in mint condition, you'd consider it and so would I. Anyway let's compare new. New Nikon Z8 is currently $3396.95 at B&H, and 3600 euros in Europe inc. EU 20% VAT. The S1R II is $3299 at B&H and $3599 in Europe (including tax) So the new S1R II is not really meaningfully cheaper than a new Z8. But it's a worse camera in several important ways. Although you do get open gate and anamorphic modes. True, if you see it in isolation to the competition (new or used) and just come at it like you are as a Panasonic user, as an upgrade to an S5 or the original S1R then it's a decent upgrade. The original S1R however it must be pointed out is now almost SEVEN years old, so that's a long time to wait for an updated sensor and codec.

That's one of the most elegant solutions I've seen for a while but it still can't quite shrug off the Frankenstein feel. The extra lens still needs to be carried around in a separate pocket and not rubbing against keys or wallets. And if I have an extra pocket I'd rather a Sony RX1R be in it.

It's true that the 100 megapixel sensor is a bit overkill, the 50 would have been a good sweet spot for an 8K/4K medium format camera with even better low light performance than the GFX 100. I am hoping they get a new fast stacked 50 megapixel sensor out... But I question whether medium format users demand the speed.

You talk about this narrative as if it's some Fox news propaganda, I am not pushing anything, the logic speaks for itself. Low sales figures speak for themselves. The business logic is that Panasonic simply can't continue like this, they must change and do something about their marketing and product strategy. The Panasonic Microwave Camera is not enough to take sales away from the others. If they are still on under 3-4% market share after another couple of years, that's one activist shareholder meeting away from curtains. They have already fucked up with some of their most loyal users, I am not the only one to switch to Nikon, or Sony, or Canon or Fuji due to the S1R II being in a mid-range body design, with previous features taken away, with a sensor slower than what the competition had 5 years ago at the same resolution, and an autofocus engine which is as far behind the cutting edge as their lens ecosystem is.

The deal is done, thank you Foto Meyer Berlin. Sold some stuff, as I realised I didn't need it anyway as the Z8 does it all, pretty much. Z8 has been out about a year already, which is crazy. Still I think 3099 given it's still current is quite generous. Like many of you guys I was waiting to see what Panasonic would come up with after so long. But the S1R Mark II is not for me and S1H Mark II remains missing. I won't pay $3.5K / 500 euros more than the used Z8 for a cost-cut S5 body, no top LCD, worse AF, worse rolling shutter, and a worse mount. Also the S1R II internal RAW codec bitrates are too massive, ProRes RAW only, no 700Mbit custom RAW format like Canon/Nikon are offering with Canon RAW Lite and N-RAW. Although hey, at least Panasonic has internal RAW unlike Sony! Z-mount is equal or better than L-mount for many reasons, primarily: Megadap Sony E mount adapter opens up the entire Sony range of which there is a lot plus allows Sigma full frame lenses in by the back door. Lovely 35mm F2 is small and perfect for Z8. Also the Techart Leica M autofocus adapter is IMHO a must have, and this ain't available in L-mount. Plus Sigma APS-C lenses are in Native Z mount anyway so when I need to go for a very small zoon, 18-50mm F2.8 fits the bill perfectly and the Z8 has enough resolution in Super 35 mode to do it justice. I could not wait another 12 months to 7 years for a Panasonic flagship. S1H Mark II might be really nice... who knows. They're not communicating. Panasonic did not even so much as email me about the S1R Mark II. But the main reason I am out of the Panasonic ecosystem is that the competition is both cheaper and better.

So 16ms for 12bit, 30ms for 14bit. I'd be interested to see the difference in the shadows, probably not that much? 16ms is pretty good given it's a 100 megapixel sensor.

There's no CFe card with the capacity to give you 8K/60p RAW continuous for loooong continuous takes. In 8K/30p H.265 it's a 125 minute limit.

No the L-mount alliance agreement goes like this. L squared... Sigma undercuts Leica with sexy aluminum unibody full frame cameras for under $2k. Panasonic charges Leica money for zoom lenses and supplies old sensors to Leica for their 2025 cameras. Leica get to die. Sounds like an alliance to make NATO look dodgy!

A great way to let everyone know that dinner's ready and shoot is off. Canon should have thought of this too. Clearly S1H Mark II needs to be in the GH1 form factor. It's the only way to save Panasonic. Back to basics. With a gold edition too.

Nightmare fuel

Thoughts on rolling shutter and press trips. I think there's a bigger problem with Panasonic and it's the competition. Nikon Z8 used prices... $3000. So the Panasonic's not the best value hybrid camera, and not the best spec's either. And it doesn't have the most versatile, well established mount either. Sony a7r V - higher resolution, used prices also around $3k. Canon EOS R5 used prices also a problem... $2k-2.5k GFX 100 is another competitor, with chonky 4K and much larger sensor for also around 2.5k-3k used. Why buy a new camera over those? When it isn't better or cheaper? Panasonic need to either be cheaper or better. You can't be more expensive and worse.

Fair play for the correction. I think with any bayer sensor there is a way to invoke moire, if the texture is fine enough and at the right distance. On his closer shots the issue was solved by the 8K sensor, but the S1H with the AA filter should have the advantage in all the other cases and further away from the subject. Is it worth worrying about? Not too much, but worth being aware of. I am still too upset about the S5 body design to care about the S1R II too much, let's see what panasonic bring with the S1H II 7 years from now.

I think I have answered it myself... The compression in H.265 is the result of bad tests. They are using the MP4 mode which has extremely low bitrates. In MOV we have 8K H.265 10bit 422 at 400Mbit, similar to the Sony a1's 500Mbit 8K mode post firmware update. This I have experience of and it was a match for N-RAW as far as the lack of compression, great shadow detail and a fine noise texture goes. There's also a Prores 422 HQ 700Mbit/s mode in 4K/24p, so a reasonable step up from 400Mbit. Remember however that H.265 long GOP at 400Mbit is equiv. to H.264 at 800Mbit so if you see a ton of macro blocking in that I'll be surprised! The ProRes codec has the advantage of being ALL-I though. According to Newsshooter where you can see the full breakdown of bitrates, 4K in H265 MOV is 190Mbit, so equivalent to 380 H.264. https://www.newsshooter.com/2023/05/10/nikon-z8-announced/ Aside from the wide range of bitrates... I like the fact it has no crop in 4K/120p plus the option of DX and 2.3x crop. The 2.3x crop is nice for Super 16mm lenses. Plus the high-res Zoom option for pretty much any crop factor between 1 and 2.3 One last thought, it seems Nikon did agree with the Canon 70d that the right place for the stills/movie mode is under your right hand.

There is a 700Mbit/s mode in NRAW at 4K 24p which could be good half-way house between too much compression and the huge file sizes of the 8K NRAW and Prores modes. This is among the smallest file size for RAW shooting on any camera, alongside C-RAW Lite 6K on the EOS R3. I have seen this test which shows the compression in the red channel with H.265. What's a bit frustrating is the lack of info about what bitrate was selected and so on... I assume it was graded from LOG. According to Slashcam the H.265 bitrates in MP4 are tiny. https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Nikon-Z8-in-der-Praxis--Die-bessere-Z9-fuer-Video--8K-RAW-50p-Bolide-mit-Feinschliffbedarf--alles-.html# Will certainly see some compression in MP4. But what about the H.265 MOV mode?

Haha. Nice. Must be confident in the autofocus performance then! Although perhaps I am reading too much into it and it tells us more about the state of BBC News than anything camera related!!

I'm against the new stills/movie/S&Q dial being on the left. You can't operate it quickly under your main gripping hand with the rest of the controls. Nobody quite seems to have been able to grasp yet that Canon got it right in the DSLR days with the 70D stills/movie mode switch near the AF-On button! Aside from S9 I agree, S9 is designed to be something different and fun. I'd prefer to pick that up for certain things over the S1R II. Better than OG S5 but that was pretty terrible, one of the least inspiring designs and EVFs ever, even for 5 years ago. S5 II was an improvement but not by enough. It's a bit like the difference between a7 II and III. Because Panasonic entered the full frame market so late they have not been able to go through 5 generations of iterative kaizen like Sony. The GH2 and in a different way GH5 remains for me one of the best Panasonic cameras looks and ergonomics wise but they have tossed those older designs out completely now rather than evolving from them. S1H with the mechanical shutter and top panel is wonderful isn't it? Just a bit clunky and dated now. I would take the S1R II's image and video capabilities over the A7R V but 100% agree with everything else!

I just think they had a chance to do something really nice, and after 7 years did something very middle of the road. Given this is a 3600 euro camera, they could have at least kept the fancy S1H top LCD which was the finest on the market at the same time as just shrinking the body down and trimming some fat. It would have been nice to rub some of the sharp edges off, it has no graceful curves at all. The S9 also looks very basic and unimaginative, yet with a few tweaks and a viewfinder could have looked lovely. It doesn't need to be X100 level, just better than boring and mediocre. S5 II is not the type of body that screams to pick it up for fun. And I really dislike the rear jog dial, it's so spongey. If they had kept the basic S1H body concept to the tee, just added some nice curved edges and shrunk it in size without removing key features or shrinking the screens... that would have been the Pana flagship for the ages. Instead we got pure dullness! The question is, if they are coming out with an S1H II later this year will they also do an S5 II replica, or push out something more exciting?

Funnily enough that massive microwave screen bezel doesn't look out of place. Only at second glance did I see it 🙂

Very cool, thanks. It's a thing of beauty. Control scheme is groundbreaking. No more main menu diving.

I find it over-engineered and fiddly with the catch, and too thick. Have you tried the a7r V? Screen mechanism is in a different league. I think you'll find S5 II and S1R II a big step down from that.

Do tell us more!

It's nearly time for a spring clean where 4 or 5 cameras turn into 1! I have decided to divest in L-mount. The Sigma Fp-L is staying but I'm moving on from Panasonic and the L-mount lenses with no plans to get more. When the Sigma BF comes out I'll certainly consider swapping the Fp-L for it but want to see if it retains Cinema DNG raw video. Nikon Z8 used prices are now under $3000/3000 euro. So it's a cheaper option than the Panasonic S1R II, with a much more flagship design of body and very nice chonky EVF. Of course the autofocus is in a different league and the sensor is a lot faster. I thought about returning to a Sony a1 and selling my a7 IV along with some Fuji stuff. But the a1 prices are still as high as 12 months ago and well above what I'll find a Z8 for. Nikon Zf mount has the nifty Leica M autofocus adapter (latest version) from Techart, and the MegaDap Sony E mount adapter which serves all my autofocus needs without requiring a $15,000 investment in Nikon Zf lenses. Thank the lord. Whereas with the S1R II and L-mount, options are very limited for adapters. Sigma 35mm F2 ART for Sony E-mount on a Nikon Z8 is a tempting duo. Build quality tip top and not too big. Ergonomically fantastic. 8K RAW video and super fast. One of the best range of H.265 codec options and some very good crop modes. 4K/120p full frame mode. So I think it's time to get into Z mount in a big way and commit to it. Would you go for the Z8, or something else for $3000?

They will leave 8K 60p and faster sensor performance for an S1H Mark II presumably. It will probably be able to match the Nikon Z8. The question is, do we need another Z8?

So the 6K 60p is a crop with vertical binning according to Slashcam, but still very good detail: https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Panasonic-LUMIX-S1R-II-Sensor-Bildqualitaet---Debayering--Rolling-Shutter-und-Dynamik--Rolling-Shutter---Panaso.html#4KDebayeringPanasonic

Nice long (2 hour!) review from Richard Wong. I've been thinking about the standardisation of body designs at Panasonic. Taking inspiration from Sony they seem to want to design a one-body fits all standardised ergonomics. But the lack of the top panel LCD and the angular body of the S5 Mark II does nothing for me. And I'm wondering when Panasonic will start adding a bit of flair and soul to their designs. If they came up with the S5 Mark II body design as a way of creating a Sony a7 IV mould to then go and do a whole set of other cameras with only minor ergonomic changes, they have done a really bad job. The S5 Mark II body is not flagship material. Sony a7 IV is. The Sony a1 has an almost identical design and ergonomics to the a7 IV, but still feels like a flagship. It's been the same since the Sony a9 being based on the a7 III. The Nikon Z8 is probably the nicest of the bunch I think? Not too small, not too big, top panel LCD, very nice viewfinder hump, feels premium. So in general just the design... what do people think of the direction Panasonic have taken since the S5 Mark II to standardise their bodies? The G9 II of course shares the same basic layout and looks too. Maybe they will break the mould a bit with the S1H Mark II if we ever see it? They could certainly use some imagination at this point.