Daniel Robben

What about BRAW. Does it have the same half line shift issue in 6.2k?

Also in general: BRAW/Video Assist no alternative? What are the pros and cons vs prores raw atomos? Just different workflows?

12 hours ago, Django said:

As I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger on a XH2S I'd just like to revisit the infamous chroma smoothing issues.

How big of a deal do you guys think this is? Like in practice when does it really bother you? It seems to me its only really noticeable when shooting foliage from a distance. But unless you're a nature landscape shooter I don't think you'll run into glaring issues.

In another thread someone just mentioned Fuji has the worst tonality and color separation. That and the over sharpening.

My reply was this is due to X-Trans. No AA filter and the chroma smoothing issues mentioned here.

But the upside is more detail and a much more filmic-like grain at high ISO due to less chroma noise.

I mean we tend to focus on the cons of X-Trans but there are pros as well, Fuji aren't crazy and stick with it for a reason.

That being said my main gripe is with the red channel. Reds are often pinkish, you can see it right there in the thumbnail below if you compare the red square to the ProRes RAW. The red is missing richness and has some pinkish hue:

Is there any solution for that? Like any color correction or LUT that fixes the red channel?

For the moment, I have found peace with x-h2s color smoothing. If you shoot Prores 422 or HQ in 6.2K standard film simulation, you will get color detail that is at the border to what the sensor is able to deliver. There is smoothing, but less smoothing would soon tend to unpleasant color noise. I saw that also in comparison with my G85 4K, which seemed richer than fujifilm 4K, but having a closer look also revealed "false richness" by delivering color where there is none.

Regarding 4K and if you don't want prores blow your memory card, shoot h265 longGop ~200Mbps, also in standard film simulations, and you get great footage where you will not notice any lack of color detail, unless you really look for it.

And you are right, you will mostly only notice lack of color detail (if any) in nature shots with little color contrast.

f-log2 is less good for such shots. Along with higher dynamic range, the chroma channels are compressed as well, which might be one of the reason that f-log2 has less color detail.

if you want specific modes to compare in advance to your purchase, let me know, I am happy to help.

Apart from color detail discussion, what is definetly great is the 4K 120p (always record at 720Mbps LongGoP, which convert to a 140Mbps Clip, if you want best quality). According to dpreview Video Stills Comparison Tool, its even better than A7SIII in terms of details captured. I saw only GH6 might beating it a little here.

The magenta cast in the reds I also noticed and don't like so much, but I understood fujifilm did that on purpose to please skin colors (see interview link below). You can easily correct in post if you want (hue vs hue curve in resolve for example). Also some of their film simulations don't have it as strong (I think also eterna tends more to red compared to provia)

For skin color captures I believe there is nothing to complain. Here the smoothing tends to even give advantages. My G85 skins are clearly worse, especially at higher ISOs, where X-H2s keeps colors under control pretty well.

Unfortunately I don't have its real competitors in my hand so I am limited in comparing them.

The link to the interview:

https://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-managers-talk-film-simulations-origins-evolutions-goals-misunderstandings-bold-classic-negative-and-much-more/

21 hours ago, Daniel Robben said:

increased color details at ISO 3200

Update: there is something, but I am not sure anymore that it effectively gives more details, just more noise going to appear that fits more consistent with what to expect at such medium-high ISO

12 hours ago, Attila Bakos said:

When you test this make sure you cut the first second or so.

You're right, I am pretty sure I did

4 hours ago, D Verco said:

Have you considered that it doesn't matter if the final image quality is as good as it is?

I do. But I ended up here because something was odd (muddy) compared to my previous camera (G85), and also thanks to other people who digged deeper, it's clear that there are flaws.

I was using the S5 Pro from Fuji (incredible dynamic range by the way) for years and still love it. Same with G85. I know their sweet spots and just rely on them at some point.

With the x-h2s, of course the bars are raised, considering the specs.

Regarding dynamic range in f-log2, it's great, yes. But there are situations (maybe more than I would like) where there will be lack of richness visible and you will not be able to recover it, whereas with its competitors, you might have. 

Of course, I also noticed that some of the "richness" in the wintertrees of other cameras is actually color noise, so also bad, but at least it can be postprocessed if needed.

Concerning chroma details, I tested a bit, and noticed a jump of increased color details at ISO 3200 in standard profiles. Further, h265 All-I is a bad choice vs longGOP for such detailed not moving scenes. Prores has advantage as well here, even if its Intra frame encoding. f-log2 also worse than standard profiles.

So the best I could get (and almost completely get rid of smoothing) is with Prores HQ at ISO 3200 in standard profile. 

See comparison of best and worst (below is one of its chroma channels):

2 hours ago, Attila Bakos said:

Yes the log profiles are worse. Btw when you're testing chroma components in Fuji files, make sure to skip the first few frames, those are worse than the rest.

Thanks, yes, I reckonized but thought that's normal for non-all-intra frame encoding like long GOP. From my head I believe in prores first frames were same quality as following.

On X-H2s there is a significant chroma channel detail difference between f-log or f-log2 and normal profiles. Latter are far better. See below Cb Channel of Eterna and f-log2.

On 10/26/2022 at 11:16 PM, Attila Bakos said:

Here is a short demonstration of the Cr channels: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1veiqGodXKxerdNF_ksqLlAnFWbGQUtEe/view?usp=sharing

8bit is rubbish, never ever use it. 10bit is somewhat better than on the X-T3/4, but the chroma smoothing is still there, ProRes doesn't seem to help either. Interestingly the X-H2s seems to have more smoothing than the X-H2.
As much as I love Fuji for stills, I think I'll stick to other brands for video as I'm very sensitive for this kind of stuff, but for 99.9% of Fuji video shooters this is still a non-issue I guess.

I checked this chroma smoothing issue on my X-H2s and I noticed that the chroma channel details are far better preserved when NOT using f-log or f-log2.

Luma channel seems to perform the opposite, however not as significant.