Fox

5 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

You were basically only one click away from getting the answer yourself.

Thanks for the hint 😉 

beautiful result!

On 7/2/2021 at 12:00 AM, kye said:

No surprises here, but I'd say it's the Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera.

A modular cinema camera under $1000 brand new, uncompressed Cinema DNG RAW at 60p, and a beautiful image.  

 

What lenses did you shoot that “L’échappée sauvage” with?

35 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not tried one. I am sure it is very good but I don't need 8K or have the will to spend $6000 on features I don't use.

I’m in the market for one of these, I would totally prefer canon R5’s ergonomics and lenses, but I need an out of the box reliable camera…

If I’m not mistaken you tried Sony A7sIII, what’s your take on Sony’s IBIS and AF?

9 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The dilemma is, there are not many full frame 4K cameras with both great AF and great color.

The Sigma Fp is great for the price though and really a company I can support.

Engineering led

Not bullshit led

The Sony A9 used is worth a look, funnily enough I find it has the most mojo of the Sony cameras and the 4K image is incredibly detailed, and great AF. I prefer it to A7 III even though the latter is cheaper and has S-LOG.

Panasonic also worth a look, but AF is still a bit of a handicap.

Looking at G9 improvements though with firmware 2.4 that'll soon be a thing of the past?

Price aside, what about Sony A1?

7 hours ago, herein2020 said:

That depends on if you are as big of a conspiracy theorist as I am 🙂 .  I still think the overheating timer is either complete BS or Canon deliberately designed the camera in a way that would not prevent it from overheating with extended use. My S5 can shoot 4K60FPS 10bit 4:2:0 H.265 footage for 30min on a 90 degree day while recording to both card slots with no problem and unlimited 8 bit footage.

With a body the size of the R3 and so far they are only advertising 4K (not 6 or 8K) I would definitely think no fan is needed.

Is it full oversampled from 8K?

8 hours ago, herein2020 said:

. So Canon..if you are listening, add an XLR module, dual slot video recording, and a 4:2:0 codec to your R3 and I would possibly replace my whole current kit with Canon gear.

… And a cooling fan 😅

13 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Internally both A1 and R5 will eventually overheat with the A1 having longer recording times than the R5.
 

According to numerous tests you'll be able to find on youtube comparing both, especially the torough ones from Gerlad Undone, A1 practically does not overheat at all.

13 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Externally I have no idea about the A1 and never used my R5 with an external recording but as it is currently not yet possible to record externally 8k RAW from the R5 I would still be cautious in assuming that it will not overheat.

It's already officialy announced as fully supported for the R5 by Atomos on the new Ninja V+ which will be released at the end of the month. And according to the same tests already done by numerous reviewers, R5 with no card inside already recording 4KHQ (the other internal overheating source) externally to the Ninja V shows no overheating from the R5 either. All conclude that when solely recording externally with HDMI, overheating is old story.

13 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

As ProRes Raw being a standard codec is debatable as basically no camera supports it natively and Resolve does not support it at all.  Files being smaller it could be but are any effective datarate for 8k of the ninja being published yet?

I don't use Resolve, I edit on Avid Media Composer and ProRes Raw is natively fully supported. Regarding datarates, Apple already published references and it's a very efficient, edit-friendly and non destructive codec.
 

13 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

It is fair to assume that with the Ninja V+ you will get more recording times but I would wait until is available and tests are done, there will be some quirks as always.

I assume Atomos has already enough expertise to deliver proper functionning gear in this regards. The only question now to me is should I go with Sony A1 hoping they'll eventually also make it able to externally record 8K Raw and 4K120 to the V+ or should I play it "safe" in case they don't, and go with the IBIS wobbling R5...

8 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Why you want to use ProRes Raw instead of Canon Raw Light? Did you test both 8k RAW in your machine?

I believe ProRes Raw produces smaller file sizes, editing standard codec, and the recorder gives me longer recording times on cheaper SSD storage with no overheating

13 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

R5 rolling shutter is good, 8K 25 fps is 15ms about the same as the C500 II so a non issue imo, non HQ mode is 9 ms, R6 and 1Dx III are quite bad. Sony IBIS for video is worst than Canon.

With the price of a Ninja V+ + SSD you can buy 2 x 2 TB CFexpress so not sure you are saving money

But what are you shooting and for how long? And in case of overheating is 4K SQ not good enough?

It is so crazy people rave about 4k 120 R5 quality (which is indeed good second only to the A7S III) and say 4k SQ is bad but it is exactly the same.

I understand Sony A1 has an even better handling of rolling shutter with its stacked sensor.

Sony IBIS seems not as good as Canon’s indeed, but doesn’t occasionally introduce wobble to the footage as Canon R5 does either. To me that wobble issue is really a concern, and I think I’d prefer having a less capable IBIS better than nothing than a more powerful IBIS that would overdo its job. 

Sure the price of Ninja + SSDs equals to CFexpress, but CFexpress don’t record ProRes (raw) 

I’m shooting a wide variety of things, from commercials to run and gun short documentaries sometimes, as well as still photography ( that’s why I need a mirorless rather than a dedicated camera).

Again, that lack of 8K raw support is holding me off the A1. I do intend to shoot some 8K and would rather have the gear future proof

6 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

 

With my cameras, they all provide dual slot video recording so I also get redundancy.

Don’t you have the possibility to record both to the ninja and to one card internally?

15 minutes ago, herein2020 said:Why is this your answer to everything? If you are running and gunning as a OMB and you want the lightest simplest most efficient kit possible a recorder is a horrible idea and it is completely ridiculous to have to buy one to overcome deliberate shortcomings in a camera. And how many times have you tried to rig a recorder and a camera on a one handed gimbal? 

I have been shooting run and gun with a recorder/or a monitor including on a one handed gimbal with no issues. Because you don’t like it doesn’t mean others can’t do it.

thank you very much for your answer Andrew.

Well I’m in the market for a new rig and I always shoot with a monitor/recorder as to have a bigger screen to monitor my footage. I also believe ProRes (raw) offers a lot more edit friendly experience, smaller file sizes and  cheaper storage on SSDs rather than expensive CFexpress media. I don’t want to go with a real proper « cinema » camera because I want to be able to shoot stills and I like IBIS and Autofocus. I sure would love in body e-NDs but don’t mind using external ND’s given there is no choice with mirrorless. I’m now struggling with choosing my « poison » exactly as you say between Canon R5 and Sony A1, as I want to renew all my gear including wide array of lenses. I’m in for around 15,000€ and the lenses combination in RF or E Mount makes it that the camera body price difference between them eventually doesn’t show any difference in total amount. 

i tended to lean towards Sony A1 but the lack of 8K raw and 4K120 video support with the Ninja V+ is quite frustrating

On the other side I’m just totally afraid about the general unreliability that you point out regarding Canon’s R5 and especially worst rolling shutter and the IBIS wobble issue as I often like to shoot 16mm in video. 
 

i would love to have your opinion in this regards 

46 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Are you the resident Atomos salesman or something?

Lol no I’m just having a hard time deciding which camera to buy and I’m literally frightened by your take on Canon as I’ve been following you for some years now. I just didn’t understand why you would not consider using the R5 with a ninja given the possibilities they announced (8K Prores raw) and that it would theoritically eliminate the overheating issue which seems to be your main concern. Pretty much everything else you regret about the R6 in this article seems to be consistent in the R5. So I was just hoping you could give me an objective feeling of yours about this R5 + Ninja combo so I (and maybe others) can decide whether it is a good way to go or not

On 6/15/2021 at 8:47 PM, Andrew Reid said:

New blog post:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/why-did-canon-remove-eos-r-features-on-the-more-expensive-eos-r6

Don’t you ever use a ninja recorder? Would you consider the R5 with a Ninja V+ a good combo? 

2 hours ago, Brett Munoz said:

What other mode besides manual matters when shooting video on a full frame?  It's a non-issue but I understand the frustration.  The cripple hammer definitely there, why go from 30 on the R to 20 Mpix on the R6?!  Shit makes no sense. 

Got the R5.  For hybrid shooting at events it's perfect.  For shooting stills and as a C video cam on set its good.  The one thing really pissing me off right now is the wobble on the IBIS.  I feel it is too severe when shooting wide.  As a hybrid shooter, this was a major selling point since I wnat to get hand held clips on the 15-35 at events.  Everything else I can live with as I am using it mainly for stills with occasional video clips.  

 

 

Can’t you deactivate IBIS to get rid of the wobble?

11 minutes ago, markr041 said:

This has some pans, horizontal and vertical. 4K DCI, almost all shots at 16mm, with one crop shot at 35mm (so 1.5X).

I again do not see any evidence that there is something peculiarly wrong with the IBIS/OIS of this R5/lens wide-angle combination. At 16mm, the lens is, however, highly distorted - when one pans the distortion creates odd effects, but they are not wobbles and it is a lens optical fault.

Thank you for this. I don’t want to abuse your kindness and efforts but I would have loved some more « movement » in the shots to really be able to tell. 
Did that shot between 1:02 and 1:05 seem to wobble though? 
which was the lens used?

16 hours ago, markr041 said:

Wobble Test: 16-35mm Lens on the R% Handheld

 

Ok great thanks but can you try that with handheld movement? Such as just a slow pan or following a subject?

13 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Thanks. But, exactly - fail!  That does not meet my standards for steady handheld video walking while shooting (forget the wheelie stuff). It is impressive, though. And you are right, he does not have the technique as the up-and-down is visible when he walks.

Of course, stabilizing a tiny sensor, as in the cellphone, is much, much easier than stabilizing a full-frame sensor!

Anyway, I trust you know what you are doing and need good stabilization. Let's hope that Canon fixes the glitch for the specific lenses you want to use. It is obviously not a total failure if the R5 provides the best stabilization for all lenses 24mm and above.

The Sony A1, of course, provides mediocre IBIS for all lenses, but does not discriminate!

Yeah that what i was saying, the guy doesn’t even make an effort. But imagine what you can get with proper technique. I’m blown away by my iPhones stabilisation. I don’t think it is easier on smaller sensor, on the contrary, the bigger camera gets the bigger circuitry to have the best stabilisation I guess - even though ARRI and RED still don’t bother 😂. Let’s hope canon fixes it indeed. As a matter of fact, you convinced me on all other points regarding R5 vs Sony A1 so I guess R5 it will be 😉 Too bad it’s bot perfect yet, but I assume it’ll eventually get replaced by an R5 Mark II 😁

2 minutes ago, RawZion said:

I hope this is a joke right?  You buy Canon's expensive camera, and then need to spend at least a thousand extra to rig it up with another device that is really difficult to work with.

I have a Ninja V for my Nikon Z6 and I'm pretty sure I'm going to sell it soon, as it's just so hard to deal with the HDMI cables, the crop factor, the delay, and the lack of 120 fps just for a slightly better image.  The Atomos recorder is just really difficult to work with (super hard to get the gimbal to balance with the HDMI cable too).

Regarding switching between camera modes though, the Nikon Z series knocked it out of the park.  There's a little switch you flick to instantly go between video or still and the settings are completely different, and the camera remembers.  So your shutter speed, picture profile, ISO etc. are completely independent.   That's one thing Nikon really did right.  Pushing their best modes to external is something they really did wrong.

I was just asking because the r ninja allows you to get more edit friendly files. Regarding the switch I know that you can program custom settings on Sony Alphas too and have them ready at a switch of the rotating top wheel. no such option with canons? 

36 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

 

I honestly never even bothered editing the footage that I shot with the R6. I shot a dance group and the footage was so impossible to work with that I never put together anything complete with the footage so I did not get a chance to see if the 4K was even worth the headache. I don't see how R5 owners are working with the footage.

Hopefully you can get a refund; I got lucky and the local retailer took it back without me even having to pay a restocking fee; thanks to their generous return policy I actually ordered my S5 from them specifically because they let me return the R6 penalty free.

Why don’t you guys just use a Ninja recorder? 

There you go, first video found on Youtube. I guess the guy is not even making an effort to ninja walk or whatever . 

5 minutes ago, markr041 said:

I don't believe it - walking while shooting with or without IBIS that is smooth, so show us. I have plenty of experience walking while shooting with gimbals, and without. Ninja walk and all that. I agree that technique makes a big difference for walking while shooting, even with a gimbal. And even with a gimbal without technique, it is not smooth. So only with IBIS - not possible. But I am willing to be convinced.

And all of the video that I posted is handheld, and steady. Just not moving with the camera, all static, like tripod but without one (which also takes technique.) Proper IBIS, beyond proper.

Again: all that video you posted is shot on a 24mm focal length and the wobble problem appears below this focal range. 
 

Would I have the time to shoot and post a handheld steady shot with an iPhone for you it would be pointless, as you couldn’t see the difference and would probably think it was shot on a gimbal, and still wouldn’t believe me. Try YouTube, you’ll surely find some examples and be surprised. 

And that R5 wobble just looks like a total failure from Canon if it does indeed introduce such a problem that disappears when IBIS is turned off. 

2 hours ago, markr041 said:

You cannot walk with any camera using IBIS  and get acceptable stability. Your standards are low if you think so. 

If the wobble exists below 20mm for static shots, then there is a problem. But the problem is for specific lenses.

But in any case you will never be able to walk or run or creep with a camera using IBIS and get results that rival a gimbal or would be acceptable to professionals.

If you use a gimbal, none of this matters.

My standards are not low. I’ve been working as a professional in the film industry for more than twenty years and have been delivering steady shots with cameras that never got IBIS, including the cameras we are still using on set nowadays. Now I’m talking about those smaller cameras like the Sony Alpha down to the iPhone in my pocket : they do come with IBIS. Guess what? You can hold them up and walk, and get a steady shot. You probably don’t think so, not because your standards are low but you lack practice or don’t have the skill. A gimbal with help for more complex shot, but you can perfectly hold your phone in front of you and walk straight and have a totally steady shot. 
 

Now, you don’t always use a gimbal. Sometimes you just need a handheld shot, and you need it as steady as possible. That’s when proper IBIS come in handy. 

24 minutes ago, markr041 said:

No, I used IBIS and no wobble. I am not trying to sell you on this. You can see from my video the handheld stabilization is amazingly good. You made the claim on wobble, I am just guessing what the cause is if it exists.

But, let's be clear - IBIS and OIS are for removing shake. They do not smooth while walking with the camera by professional standards for any camera - it works great for handheld static shots, as I have shown. If you move with the camera, you must use a gimbal - that certainly includes your iPhone. Whether IBIS helps or hinders gimbal stabilization is actually not clear for any camera.

I have posted lots of videos, and none with wobble. So, is it a particular lens they used or what? I have also seen lots of R5 videos with no wobble, from videographers that know what they are doing. I agree, if there is wobble in static shots with some lens, it is a concern. So, let's get clear what is going on and what stabilization is actually needed.

 

 

 

As i mentionned earlier, you obviously won’t have any wobble with your lens as wobble is a problem affecting focal length below 24mm such as 20mm or 16mm as found on the EF 16-35 or 15-35 RF… 

so again you will not have any wobble with your 24-70 or 24-105.

More than static shots, IBIS should allow you to walk with your camera and greatly reduce camera shake. That’s what effectively happens with competitors offering IBIS, such as Sony, and yes, even my iPhone.  
 

It is an issue on the R5 and probably due to a bug or misconception, unacceptable in my view, when the feature is sold and advertised as “the best in class” up to 8 stops