RodrigoPolo

20 hours ago, paulinventome said:

AFAIK it's a mode on the sensor itself so the data coming off the sensor is binned in that mode. This is why the rolling shutter is so much better in that specific mode. It is also 12 bit even to SD Card.

However the FHD can show aliasing on smooth lines

IMHO you are better shooting UHD (even in 8 bit) and downsampling to HD in post. Much, much better result assuming you can achieve the frame rate you want.

The sensor (if it is the one we all think it is) does have a 4K DCI binned mode in 14 bit - this would be really nice to have. Otherwise all the cDNG formats are 12 bit max, so you will only see 12 stops max (real stops)  from the image. I have tested stills DNG with cine DNG and can quite clearly see the missing stops at the top end. I would say it's closer to 1 to 1.5 stops difference.

But....

If you look at the S1H for example (same sensor perhaps?) in 6K mode C5D is claiming 12.7 stops of range. Well the difference is that the S1H is *probably* doing highlight reconstruction as part of white balancing and baking out a movie. This would yield a few more stops on a wedge chart (it's ideal for wedge charts!). It would be interesting to see a RAW test with the S1H. But the fp will get you the same range, with reconstruction (Lightroom does it anyway and resolve it's a checkbox) perhaps more.

Colourwise it's good. I can match Red footage but the Red has more range, at least 2 or 3 stops more on a practical basis. I've shot side by side through ranges. The ISO matches fairly well as well but i would tend to expose the fp slightly higher when possible to protect the shadows.

As for those Videos - RAW is not simple to handle properly - simple as that.

The second video shows the guy really has *no idea* what he's talking about or understands what RAW is and sensors in general, it's almost comically bad.

The bad blacks - it's difficult to say without seeing the RAW he shot - i suspect it is massively underexposed and he's pulled the shadows up. The thing about RAW is that with no compression you will see each pixel the sensor saw. As there is no noise there i guess the ISO was very low therefore probably just failed to expose correctly. Because it's linear - as i keep saying - the first 3 stops are represented in 7 code values. Usually compression just screws this totally and they're expanded out and noise from compression hides this but this is what the sensor (any sensor!) sees

cheers
Paul

Thank you.

17 hours ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Thanks, good points

for example I found this clip and I feel it was a bit overexposed in most of the shots

 

And is this clip you can see you can pull the almost dark shadows to a normal exposure very well

 

I have looked all over YouTube for sample footage, and most of the results show videos that are overexposed, with highlights clipped, I guess they didn't shoot RAW or didn't have a way to verify the exposition. The best video available on YouTube is this, which has the RAW sample footage available for download: 

8 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

There's definitely something screwy going on with the 6K to 4K downsampling. Tests from Slashcam:

Sigma FP 4K 12bit cDNG

Sigma FP 4K 12bit cDNG S35 crop

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Vollformat-RAW-fuer-2000-Euro--Die-Sensor-Bildqualitaet-der-Sigma-fp-in-4K-und-FullHD--Die-Sigma-fp-in-4K.html&xid=17259,1500002,15700023,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265,15700271,15700283&usg=ALkJrhgNyGuKiwJDUXrVufDKHPjAkANVLw

Pocket 4K cDNG

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Blackmagic-Pocket-Cinema-Camera-4K---Bildqualitaet-und-Sensor-Verhalten.html&xid=17259,1500002,15700023,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265,15700271,15700283&usg=ALkJrhgQ2yJejw3J7C9lfj506gpaNWPoMA

Pocket 6K  6K-4K downscale

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&u=https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Blackmagic-Pocket-Cinema-6K---Mehr-Pixel--weniger-Cinema---6K-4K-Workflow-und-Sensor-Modi.html&xid=17259,1500002,15700023,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265,15700271,15700283&usg=ALkJrhhlG0Nt1MO2Dxn_59VvxlOBTjCTDQ#6K_4K

Pixel binning I guess, that was my concern, so, just like the Sony a7III, the Nikon z6, the EOS R, the DJI Mavic 2 Pro, etc. if you want sharper results, avoid downscaling, use crop mode :-/ 

I downloaded the CinemaDNG RAW sample files from youtu .be Ry35hkDsfcU and they look fenomenal, 3840x2160px (4K-UHD), I reviewed the specs, questions and answers from B&H and they say it uses the full with of the sensor, which is 6,000px wide, so there has to be some sort of downscaling, what isn't clear is the algorithm (and I have asked without getting an answer on the YouTube video and on B&H) used for downscaling, for 4K (DCI/UHD) and for FHD 1080p, I'll guess that there are some options, crop, pixel binning, and as the EOS R does for cropped 1080p from 4K-UHD, crop and downsampling to 50%, but I hate to guess.

I really want to know those specs to be sure if the purchase is worth doing. Another factor that got me thinking is the possibility to import those CinemaDNG files into Adobe Premiere. On DaVinci Resolve wasn't an issue, but I couldn't figure out how to use the footage on Premiere, I used After Effects importing the files as RAW image sequence, the bad thing is that the Camera RAW dialog only appears while importing or "opening the original" you are only able to "grade" using the first frame, a workaround to "grade" the footage using other frame than the first one is opening the desired frame in Photoshop, "grading" the footage and exporting the settings to a file, then, using that settings file in After Effects RAW dialog, the good thing is that has all the advantages of the Adobe Camera RAW, which has a vast library of lens profiles, something missing (or maybe I don't know where it is) on DaVinci Resolve, the bad thing, is that exporting is painfully slow compared to DaVinci Resolve, even on a Mac Pro with a 8 core  16 thread Xeon CPU.

If some one can give me a light on how it achieves the FHD CinemaDNG RAW files, line skipping, pixel binning or downscaling, I would appreciated, because I'm hesitating on buying this camera.