webrunner5

I fell asleep! But to someone who doesn't know a lot about it he is pretty good at explaining it. It does help to know how stuff works to make it work for you.

Well I won't say it has cooled big time but there are a lot of used Cine cameras out now for cheap that for the average person is all you need. Sony F3, FS700, Canon C100, C300, Arri Alexa, old Red bodies, etc, etc.. you get my point. Heck they are giving away Panny GH4's, AF100's, Canon 1DC's on and on. Sure who doesn't want a Canon C200, EVA1 but the body is just the tip of the iceberg cost wise. Just like a new Red hell they can give you the body and you still can't afford to buy the rest of it or the Media to record on it. All the above cameras I listed can be bought as kits that pretty much are ready to shoot if you look around. And a lot of the above cameras have made some people millions of dollars. I am not going buy a 10,000 dollar camera to Hope I make money with it and sell it for 5 grand a year later. I have pretty much given up on a I NEED a brand new camera to make stuff with. I might Need a better camera but.. It is me I need to get new, not a camera LoL. But people will buy the new stuff, but I think some of them are wasting their time and money, at least on the higher end stuff.. But some people have a hell of a lot of money in this day and age and if I had it again like I used to well I would have a new EVA1, C200 myself. He who is not without sin LoL.

I have never had one but I think I would rather have both Voigtlander f/0.95 25mm, I know MF, and a Panny 20mm f 1.7 for the same money for video.. But if you have the money, and if you need the AF, which is nice, go for it. It is a heavy ass lens but you know that already.

I always keep coming back to this comparison of 2 Medium Format, and a 50mp Canon DSLR versus a Quattro DP2 and well guess what, no matter where you move that target to the Sigma wins every time. It is an amazing camera. You have to substitute the Sigma DP2 for one of the cameras listed there and just move it around to different targets on the test. I got rid of the Nikon D850 but.. https://***URL removed***/reviews/nikon-d850/8

I would easily believe the 5d iv 4k is almost identical to the 1dx ii 4k, but as good a the 1DC 4k, hmm. I am sure they are not miles apart but I don't really think Anything is as good as a 1DC output wise.

Heck a Panny G7 is better than a GH4 for colors, and a few other goodies let alone a G85 being a Lot better with IBIS helping a ton alone just for that reason and even better colors etc... Now they don't have all the Anamorphic stuff etc, that a GH4 has but most people only use 40% of what a GH4 had to offer anyways. Things have moved forward surprisingly fast over at Panasonic Land!

Your last statement is probably correct. I don't know about cheap down the road. Well yeah it will be amazing tech. But as we see now already even lower end compnay's like Panasonic, Olympus, heck even Blackmagic are pushing up the price for cameras we would like to have in this last cycle. I really don't want to be paying 4000 bucks for a Panny or Sony mirrorless to be honest I don't care what it can do. Unless you are making a good living shooting 2 thousand bucks is about all a person can do, and with all the other stuff you need on top of it that is probably most peoples limit or more. It is pretty amazing what you can do with a iPhone let alone say a used Panny G7 or something like it. So I am not complaining, but this new trend Olympus started by going to 2000 bucks Ain't to my liking as they say.

That B&W picture taken of the women with the horses is, well that is pretty amazing to put it bluntly.

Well they have the same basic Codec so I would think not too hard?? Maybe really easy.

You forgot to add that it would Only cost about $1,000.00 instead of $15,000.00 it would probably cost to build it LoL. Everyone in the world would buy that camera if it was 2 grand! It would look like a Apple iPhone roll out with people camping in tents 4 days ahead of the launch outside of a Panasonic store.

I am not too sure dithering and banding go together? Dithering and noise yes. And noise in blocks not bands. Banding as I know it is based on the compression codec, ergo not enough bits.

Good to know.

Well None of them will allow AF that I know of. Some have a Aperture control in them, about 125 bucks, and the rest are just cheap things, like 25 bucks that just adopt it to the body but don't have Any control over the lens. Canon EoS lens do have adapters that can make them work just like on a Canon body, but Nikon lens, well they just don't work only as a MF and then not even being able to control Aperture unless you go the 125 buck route. Now if you use the Old MF lenses you do have aperture on them.

Ahh well stated. I know it is easy to spend Your money LoL, but I think that will end up being a good upgrade, I think even a Panny G7, which I had, is a great camera for the money for video. The G85 is sort of a outgrowth of the G7 with better colors and IBIS. Nice upgrade. Jon on here, the Moderator, has done some really nice stuff using a G85. Now he is rich and using a GH5 LoL. I am a big fan of Nikon colors but they are just too far behind on their cameras to use on a daily basis for Video use. Here is a reason I mentioned the Panny G7. It is, and can be this good. I would still go the G85 route if you can, but if not a good option. http://www.4kshooters.net/2017/12/18/canon-c200-vs-panasonic-g7-can-you-guess-which-is-which/

Trouble with the bargain stuff you sort of always find some excuse to Not go out and shoot either Photos or video. Ah It can't do that, oh it doesn't have that on and on. A person needs to get a proven older camera, ergo a Panasonic GH4, a Canon 5D mkII, Panny G85, on and on that works and you have no excuse. You know it works so make it work LoL. I know a person can shoot good video with about any cheap gear but why unless you just want to make your life harder, and it is hard enough to make good stuff with a Arri Alexa if you don't learn it, use it, figure out it strengths and weakness.

I know it is more but the G85 is the way to go for the money. Last you for a long time.

I have had one for awhile. I really like it. I can tell you though unless the newest ones have been updated there was a cheap ass "C clip" that holds the 1/4 tripod screw in that broke on mine. I was lucky it broke on my mattress!! And I am not the only one it happen to! I went down to Ace Hardware and got a Better one. It is able to be put into your pocket if you shrink it down. Nice one use solution. Worth the price.

But in a sense every component on a chip has a leg I guess so I guess it would be "Hard Wired", controlled by other hardware and then controlled by software. That part beyond my knowledge in this day and age. 20 years ago maybe not. Once they went into the billions and billions of components I have no clue anymore.. I just give them my money now LoL.

Well I will admit to "screwing up with the gee Sony doesn't have dual pixels. Other than that I stick with what I said. Seeing how Sony doesn't Have a Dual ISO camera like you are stating. A dual gain camera is what you, and that is what I call it., dual ISO, well not really. I mean cameras all use Gain to change, ergo boost the ISO. So I see no real use of a radical breakthrough here. Supposaly Sony is turning a Capacitor on and off to accomplish it. I think they are most likely turning a Transistor off and on. Capacitors are not instantaneous like a Transistor can be. But maybe they need the lag? That could be software based not hardware based. Hence if software, no need for a analog circuit. Analog implies to me hard wiring.

There is a possibility that the "GH5s" might be a total game changer for video from this day forward!

Yeah but what would a A7s mkIII bring to the table without it over a A7r mkIII?? They Have to have something to make it worth the up grade LoL. The A7r mkIII is pretty much a dream camera now, heck the mkII was before it. I know FF video is better on the s than the r but the s35 on the r is kick ass. And that is on the mkII. I don't know enough about the A7r mkIII video and we know nothing about the A7s mkIII.

Yeah unless Canon comes out with some pretty crazy good, first effort, hard core mirrorless FF camera I think they are Never going to claw back in any way as a thought for someone buy it as a serious video camera. Sort of their last chance I think. Video is just too important in this day and age to keep protecting their top end stuff. And even that is eroding as of late. I think about every video camera manufacturer other than Sony and Panasonic better pick up the pace. Both are out to kill the others big time. Stuff is cheap enough now to be able to change brands, and with mirrorless you don't even have to give up your lens. I can see your graphs prove Exactly what I have been saying, Sony has No Dual ISO, and the second graph proves what I said in the beginning that Larger wells, ergo bigger pixels per sq inch, like in the Sony F3, mean better low light ability. And that graph also proves why the Sony A7s wins with less noise, small sensor mp size just like the new Panasonic will probably be and some new electronic Mumbo Jumbo, or the new Organic sensor which is a Whole lot of new Mumbo Jumbo.... You can only have low noise in this day in age 3 ways. 1. Dual Native ISO. 2. Very low mp count on a small sensor, ergo big pixels. 3. Or big ass pixels on a big ass sensor, ergo MF. Sony has made gains with their circuitry since the original sensor. I think everyone has to be honest. I can see that if this Organic thing is true that might be the game changer we all are looking for. But I sure as hell am not liking this path Panasonic and Olympus are taking of raising the shit out of prices, granted they have produced better cameras, but this is a damn slippery slope down the road. What we are going to have to pay 5 thousand bucks for a GH7??

It is not the same sensor for the Sony or the Panasonic. That write up is OLD tech. Both company's would have been sued long time ago. They have modified it, and Panasonic has Never claimed more DR like Sony has. Sony has No sensor that has true dual native ISO's.

"The VariCam LT has two native ISO settings: 800 and 5000. This means the VariCam LT achieves very high sensitivity while maintaining a low noise level at 5000 ISO. The noise level at 5000 ISO is nearly identical to that seen at 800 ISO. In order to achieve this function two dedicated analog circuits are implemented on every pixel of the imager of the VariCam LT for each native ISO before gain processing. This allows the camera to achieve much higher sensitivity without increased noise. Normally noise is introduced in the gain process of rating ISO in digital cameras. This functionality is revolutionary for low light scene shooting. Especially this ISO 5000 enables the camera to capture with very low available light maintaining a realistic mood." Quote from Panasonic. That is in no way what Sony Does. Well maybe it does LoL. Basically the BSI usage as Sony calls it, is in essence dual pixels also. http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2017/06/sony-dual-conversion-gain-pixel-layout.html This persons comment at the bottom sort of explains the path they use to pull it off. "Not exactly, in Aptina's, the RST is directly connected to the FD while here, the RST is connected to the junction behind DCG. It means you have to open DCG to fully reset your FD." Clear as mud LoL.

"The Varicam 35 has a unique feature that sets it apart from most cameras. The ability to have two native ISO settings. How can a camera have two base ISO ratings you ask? Basically there are two analog circuits right after each pixel before the gain amp, one each dedicated to 800 and 5000 ISO. This allows for two “native”, very clean settings. In one mode it has a native ISO of 800 and when you switch to another setting the camera clicks over to its other native ISO of 5000. This keeps the signal to noise ratio the same and allows for you to shoot remarkable clean images in low light conditions. The noise present at 5000 ISO is nearly identical to that at 800. It’s coming directly from the sensor, so it’s not simply a case of boosting the gain and erasing the noise. One of the reasons Panasonic has done this is to allow for high frame rate capture in lower ambient light." "It’s coming directly from the sensor, so it’s not simply a case of boosting the gain and erasing the noise." That statement separates it from what Sony is doing by using their ADC for a dual conversion gain . I can only gather that the sensor in a Varicam 35, and the mini has dual pixels from what I have read sort of like Canon does, but uses them for the Dual ISO instead of DPAF like Canon does. So in reality Panasonic has two senors instead of the normal one. So each one is just for a different Native ISO.