tugela
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Posts posted by tugela
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1 minute ago, ntblowz said:
I think 95% using MP4 is very realistic, on average we bring in 100GB per day of footage in MP4, can't image what RAW will gonna bring, we have delicated file server to put our files.
Most people who use this camera are going to be doing events of one form or another, or small infomercial type content. RAW is pretty much irrelevant for those folk I would think.
Archival storage is cheap. I personally have 52TB on my main computer, and another 32TB on a secondary server. And that is not including hard drives stored by themselves. I have heard of people who shoot professionally with much larger storage than that, although they have proper server banks to support it.
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1 minute ago, mercer said:
But I'm unsure you'll need to. I just had a look at a screenshot of Canon Raw Development 2.0 and it looks like there are controls to process the Raw footage before you transcode it... but this is just a guess because the screenshot just showed WB and Sharpness. Also, I assume, the TBA plug ins will work like Resolve's Raw Tab works with CDNGs... but again too early to know for sure.
My experience with pretty much all of the supplied software with Canon cameras (and most other manufacturers as well, for that matter) does not give me confidence on that though. The software they supply with their cameras for doing that sort of thing is mostly pretty crappy and crude. They might do it better for these high end pro models however. At least one would hope so, considering how much you have to pay for them.
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2 hours ago, deezid said:
You never saw Varicam skintones I guess?
He just doesn't like Panasonic, hence their skin tones are "bad". I would say Trumpian logic, but most people do it to some extent.
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3 hours ago, mercer said:
Compressed Raw is still Raw. 12bit 24fps is still 12bit 24fps even if transcoded to ProRes 4444.
And I was just addressing his previous post about Raw workflow in general. Since CDNG is more known at this point, I used that as an example.
Btw @Andrew Reid have you had a chance to test the 3K Raw from the 5D3? If so, thoughts?
Sorry for OT.
But RAW is not RAW anymore after it has been transcoded!
If you need to transcode it first before you can do anything with it, does that not defeat the purpose somewhat?
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4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:
Nobody complains when we compare the FS5 to an A7R II. People need to know what extra they are getting for their money.
Sure the market is a bit different and form factor different but there's overlap... You can't tell me not a single pro is using an A7R II or GH5, can you?
By that same token, not every pro videography or wedding guy is using the SDI on their C200, whose biggest selling point to many people is the lack of need to rig extras onto it like external recorders and monitors via SDI. Not every pro is using timecode to sync footage between 5 other cameras on a shoot and not every C200 user will even be using the XLRs, some will strip it down to the bare bones and put it on a gimbal, with sound done like it has always been done in the film days - a separate job for another man.
So shut up.
It is not necessary to be rude to people who don't agree with you.
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5 hours ago, Kisaha said:
The price difference (8-7500$) is not that huge from the C200, while a JVC LS300 (that keeps mentioning here and for good reasons) is 2650$ (that is a competitive price! not even close in specs, but hold some aces into its sleeve as well, and for the price..). Panasonic should be closer to 5500$ to be competitive to Canon/Sony, not 7500$, and that shows something about how much a really competitive S35 professional video camera can cost. If Panasonic can't make it cheap (while selling a camcorder with a fixed lens at 4500$), and BlackMagic can't make it cheaper, then maybe it ain't possible (that goes to everyone complaining about C200 pricing).
For those cameras, pricing is not based on cost, it is based on what marketing has determined the target market would be willing to pay. That is why both companies come up with more or less the same number.
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6 hours ago, joema said:
Thank you. BTW a lot of professional news organizations shoot video with DSLRs. They don't want or need something like a C200. Note this three-camera interview in front of the White House: https://joema.smugmug.com/Photography/ABC-News-Using-DSLRs/n-BsScJC/
They likely use those sorts of cameras because of the mobility and flexibility it allows. The ergonomics of something like the Cx00 cameras make them somewhat less convenient to use in that sort of scenario.
And of course with a DSLR/MILC you can fire off any stills you might need at the same time.
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3 hours ago, Papiskokuji said:
Man, I suffer in silence when I read some stuff here (I guess I'm masochist to keep reading it). But this one is too much for me... On what ground do you think it should cost 2,500$ ? Please tell me. Do you know a video camera costing that price and doing this ? And don't tell me blackmagic please (fan of the brand, but their cameras aren't in the same price range and they are way less reliable and easy to use, and no autofocus, no support) Do you know a pro 1/3 sensor camcorder costs more than 2500$ (Sony, Canon) ?. It might not be the camera for you, that I totally understand but with all due respect, I think your comment is from a spoiled naive non pro shooter who doesn't know the requirements of pro work and on being on the field with reliable equipment.
People always complain, at some point it's just ridiculous. They want new technology right away, but when Sony releases a new camera too soon, they think theirs just became obsolete and hate Sony for it. In the mean time they blame Canon for holding off. And now they unleash something very unexpected from them, still complaints. Same goes for bitrates. Canon files take too much space, now they want that kind of bitrates in their gh5, and they're suddenly ok with the file size. And all that to end up posting videos on Youtube (which is not a bad thing but just all those concerns are irrelevant for that type of delivery).
Anyway, this camera seems to be freaking great. Canon used to deliver not on specs but on the field and with the image quality/mojo. Now this one also has the specs ! Granted an intermediate codec is more than necessary for a camera at this price point, but it will come down the line anyway.
Pffiou, sorry I had to get it out of my chest
Now I can burn in hell !
Because it is a sensor and some processors in a body. Inherently there is nothing in there that is not in bodies costing $2.5-3k, so it should not be costing an extra 5K.
Manufacturers pile on the MRSP on products like this because the people who buy them are professionals. Manufacturers know that the people who make the buying decisions are not spending their own money, so they don't care about paying that premium. I am a scientist. When we buy equipment and consumables at scientific supply retailers, very often you can find something similar that is sold in consumer outlets, but at a fraction of the price. You get charged a huge premium because it is "scientific" equipment rather than consumer equipment (even though it is the same damned thing). It is a lot like how defense contractors charge the government $100 for a $10 hammer.
As soon as you buy a "professional" product as a professional, you are going to be gouged for at least three times what a similar item in the consumer market will cost.
Why 8K rather than 15K or whatever? The reason is that Canon's marketing guys have studied the market and have calculated that is the maximum they can charge before even pros think twice about buying one. No other reason. You will probably find that around 8K is the purchasing authority that the sorts of pros who might buy this sort of equipment have. That extra 5K is buying you nothing. For them it is a case of maximizing the gouging without adversely affecting sales too much, and you guys are the ones who are going to be paying for that.
1 hour ago, mercer said:Yeah, that's all I can base it on. This camera is such a surprise, I wouldn't be surprised if the 2018 FW update is 10bit instead of 8bit. It may depend on what Panny and Sony do between now and then.
The codec is baked into hardware, so there will be limitations on what can be done short of replacing the electronics in the camera. If the encoding logic is set up for 8 bit, no firmware is going to be able to change that to 10 bit.
1 hour ago, mercer said:Also, an XC25 with the 10bit Raw could be a great B Cam... at $2500 or $3000, I may be a buyer. Maybe do a 1.5" sensor instead of the 1" and an f/2 to f/4 lens... or f/2.8 to f/4.
An XC25 would be using the same processor, so it will have the same hardware encoding options as this camera. Most likely without the RAW option of course.
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1 hour ago, sandro said:
Well the options are two:
- get the refund and buy a used one, like getting a half refund for the trouble
- get the refund and switch model, but to what? The only one that comes close (in terms of price of course) is the sony a6300 but i will lose the ergonmics, problem with overheating (still happening?) and weird colours. In return I get an exceptional low light performance which I hated about the nx1... I wouod finally be able to shoot above 1600 and beyond without worrying about getting a point and shoot look
And also of course a system still alive!
Very confused...
It is unfortunate, but if the size is right for you, there is no other camera that comes close in terms of the overall ergonomics, build quality and image quality package. The only other cameras that I have handled that feel as comfortable in the hand are the smaller consumer DSLRs, such as the Rebels, but those tend to made of plastic and usually have unfortunate IQ/performance relatively speaking.
It is a real shame that Samsung got out of the market, the NX1 hit most of the buttons for me, and you can just imagine what an NX2 would have been like if they had polished the line up even further.
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2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:
I think there needs to be a demand for 1080p first. On a global scale pretty much no one watches anything above 720p.
1080p is for a selected few and 4K is almost not used.In Sweden perhaps. Other parts of the world have 1080p on cable. Pretty much most store sold content is in BluRay for, and almost all of that is 1080p. There is the odd 720p BluRay floating around, but most of those are older productions.
There is plenty of 4K content on Netflix, it seems like most of their current in house production is shot and presented in 4K.
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8 hours ago, mercer said:
C'mon even you, the resident Canon hater, has to be a little impressed with this camera... even just a wittle eensie weensie bit?
Nope. My interest is in hybrids, and this is not a hybrid. It is also far too expensive for what it does. A camera like this should cost around $2.5-3k. So, I am not impressed. It is just another camera that can shoot 4K, and there are plenty of others that can do that which have been around for years.
I don't hate Canon cameras. I own Canon cameras. That does not mean that I can't be critical of their shortcomings.
The camera itself does not interest me. What interests me is the processor inside it and what it will mean for camera's that might interest me later on. That said, Canon have a history of disappointing in what they deliver. There is always some other camera that is already there and a few steps forward. So we will see. Maybe their new processor will bring them up to par with the competition's 2016 products in 2018, but chances are those competitors will have their own next gen stuff in 2018. That always seems to happen with Canon, at least in this decade. One step forward but two steps behind.
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1 hour ago, cpc said:
It is actually the other way around. For the same compression algorithm, higher bit rates need more processing power than lower bit rates in both encoding and decoding.
For decoding that might be true, but not encoding. Lower bit rates increase the number of decisions the algorithm needs to make, hence greater processing power is required. The least computationally intensive process is one where no decisions need to be made, in other words raw output.
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48 minutes ago, wolf33d said:
Good Canon, now why dont you stop being an asshole and release a FF mirrorless camera with that king of video spec, even without RAW? Damn.
The reason they have not done that before is because the processors available to them were not up to the task. This is a new generation of processor though, so perhaps the corresponding Digic 8 will be able to handle it in 2018. Powershots usually introduce the next generation of Digic stills processors, so perhaps we might see a Powershot with a Digic 8 in late 2017. That will give us a better idea of how the new processor generation will handle 4K in the consumer world.
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9 hours ago, cpc said:
24-bit audio, time code, genlock. Possibly other niceties.
Also, c300II is priced at $12k, so it is $3K more, not 7k.
At 1 gbps their raw is less data than ProRes444. It is around 3:1 compressed. Withholding the XF-AVC codec for 2018 is actually kinda smart cause they buy some time to see what comes next from Pana/Sony, and at the same time don't kill the C300II immediately.
No, I don't think it has anything to do with withholding stuff. I have just noticed from their press release that the camera has a DV6 processor - that is a new one. It probably has a different encoder than the earlier DV5 processors, so hardware encoding for 4K will have different bit rates (as well as higher frame rates). There may not be any higher bit rates as a result.
The high bit rates with DV5 were likely due to computational restraints to keep the processor in it's thermal envelope. A lower bit rate means more computation and implies that the DV6 is more thermally efficient, which is very good news for Canonites in the greater scheme of things. The implication of the new processor that people are perhaps not picking up on is that there will be a corresponding stills processor, the Digic 8, which will be the sibling of the DV6. It means that hardware encoding of 4K video might finally arrive in Canon consumer cameras (as well as the prosumer ones which currently are forced to use mjpeg as a codec).
5 hours ago, Philip Lipetz said:Don't forget that the 2018 internal 4K upgrade will be 8 bit only. The 1080 is only 35mps. All of these specs fall just a little short of what I am asked to deliver. RAW is nice but none of my jobs ask for RAW, they hate it.
The C200 is an enthusiast camera. Great for passsion projects and micro budget narratives, not for my niche, event and quick turn around docs Just so you don't think I am a Canon hater we have had several C100s at time, both models, but time moves on. We sold ours
I hope the Panasonic Cinema cam fits our needs.
That is because the hardware encoder in the processor is really designed with consumer cameras in mind. Parts of it will be based on logic carried over from earlier Digic processors (hence the 35 mbps) while other parts are new. The new processor and the implications of it are the really important piece of news IMO, far more important than the C200 itself. It tells us what sort of video performance consumer cameras from Canon in 2018 are probably going to have.
46 minutes ago, ntblowz said:I still don't get why people invest big money on camera only to do low budget stuff, that doesn't make sense economical wise in terms of return from investment.
This job I m doing right now is over 10k pay rate, the fourth one this year that are 5 digit budget. Just wish c200 have 422 10bit as some client need those, guess I still have to keep that ninja blade just for this arghh ( at least file format is 422 10bit even though technically it is not 10bit lol)
If you are a professional, spending 8k on equipment needed to do your job is normal and reasonable.
If you were a contractor in the construction business you would not skimp out on your truck for example. You would get the one that was tough enough and sturdy enough to get the job done without any problems. I am not sure why people in the imaging business think things are different for them.
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3 hours ago, sanveer said:
This may actually take away a lot of clients from the Black Magic cameras. The price point and RAW make it a formidable camera for low budget indies. Until the All-I codec is released it may have lesser use elsewhere.
I am guessing, this will also actually eat into the C300 's Market.
Apparently you get RAW or 8 bit 100/150 mbps H.264 (30/60p), those being the only two options. It makes some sense since RAW has no hardware encoding while H.264 is limited by the thermal envelop of the Digic processor. But, IIRC the other Cx00 cameras can shoot H.264 at higher bit rates, suggesting that the camera the pre-reviewers have is not finished.
At the price they are charging unless you really need RAW footage, you would be better off with an alternative camera unless something changes before release.
6 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:When the C100 was introduced some 4 years ago it was 52 000 swedish to buy the body only. Today I see them go for as low as 12 000 on the used market.
So.. in 2021 a C200 for roughly $2-2500... or maybe even lower with the way the market is going and how saturated it gets.
Another effect might be a massive drop in the used prices of rivals like the Ursa, FS5, FS7, LS300, etc.Next gen pro video cameras from Panasonic/Sony will likely be hitting the market in the not too distant future, so this new camera will still be expensive for what you get.
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3 hours ago, Liam said:
Some House of Cards crew, and star Robin Wright, made a six minute short film, set in one location, shot in two days. I guess the crew volunteered their time and resources. And they still ended up crowdfunding $50,000 to make it happen. So just a bunch of millionaires not willing to put a cent of their own into a film they call a "passion project". From the stills I've seen, I have no idea where $50,000 would have gone. And it sounded like they got accepted to CANNES before they were even finished. For Wright's directorial debut. Just because it looked pretty and had a big name. (My source was an interview on Colbert, if you want to look it up, sorry for not posting it here)
How is that okay? And how far back in time to you have to go to see Sundance and Cannes as the home of brilliant films that don't fit Hollywood's bill? (Sundance appeared to be a mess this year too. Apparently Nick Offerman and Kristen Stewart are the great talents of our generation)
Let me know if I'm just being a dick, but wow
Even free is not free. There are still costs, just because you don't see them does not mean they are not there.
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1 hour ago, BasiliskFilm said:
I am afraid as Sony was originally an electronics company rather than a photographic company they have always sought to fit the most functionality into the smallest package - remember the Walkman folks? So the sensor and processor are through-putting the maximum data in the smallest space, as well as offering extra cleverness like sensor stabilisation.
The Canon and Nikon equivalents are just not working quite as hard, and have more space for cooling.No, Nikon and Canon don't have processors that can perform, so their functionality is compromised in one way or another to stay with a working thermal envelope. Sony have more thermal issues because they are pushing the boundary more than Canikon.
Manufacturers with the most capable processors (which is where the heat comes from) are Panasonic and Samsung (now out of the market). If you want(ed) sheer performance, those are the companies which would deliver, not Canikon.
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10 hours ago, ntblowz said:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/first-sony-a9-overheating-issue-report/
Man Sony and Overheating have become synchronous
Apparently it is just a warning, but the camera will continue to operate if you set it up to do that.
So, basically Sony provides a warning while other cameras maybe not. That does not mean that one or the other is behaving any differently though. Sony is saying "hey, I'm getting hot", while other cameras are keeping mum about it (until they shut down anyway).
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8 hours ago, tomekk said:
Yeah, but then a good recovery company should directly tap into memory or use their own temporary controller to access data.
That would require physically accessing the silicon. Very few places would be capable of that, even the FBI would be challenged to do that.
If you want to see the challenge, have a look at this video to see what is actually inside those cards:
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13 minutes ago, Ken Ross said:
I'm using the 64 GB Lexar UHS-II card with a stated speed of 150MB/s. In my GH5, the SanDisk Extreme, UHS-I, SDXC Class 10 card, with a stated speed of 90MB/s, is ready for the next 4K clip much quicker than my Lexar. So much for stated speeds. So it's not a question (at least in my case) of 'reliability', but shooting speed.
That Lexar has a write speed of 75 MB/s, and since (IIRC) the GH5 uses a UHS-I interface, only half of that is available. Which means the write speed will be ~37 MB/s. The Sandisk card probably writes at around 80 MB/s. If you want faster write speeds, use the 2000x cards. Those have UHS-II write speeds of ~260 MB/s for Lexar, and ~280 MB/s for Sandisk (or half if you use them in a UHS-I device). Both of them will be faster than the Sandisk card you are currently using.
As a quick test on this laptop, I wrote to a 128GB 1000x UHS-II card I had handy to see what data throughput it would have. Reading off the hard drive and writing through a UHS-I interface to the card yielded sustained write speeds of ~30 MB/s, more or less what you would expect in that scenario. Any speed issues you see are a result of your equipment, not the card.
12 minutes ago, Teemu said:Gh5 can't read or format the corrupted card. I was playing back our last shot everything was working great. I returned to shoot mode, turned off the camera and then took the card too soon out. Maybe when there is still this Lumix screen in monitor. Just a second too early.
I was not recording or playing back when ejected the card. I think it's because camera was still shutting down and making some last "writings/markings" to card.
Also I have noticed when you flipp open the memory card door. GH5 sometimes writes/flashes the card slots like one second some times. Don't know is it possible to burn card on that moment. It's really wierd because sometimes it does it sometimes not.
That is probably just the camera disconnecting from the card. The flashing light does not necessarily mean that data is being transferred, just that some card related operation has been carried out.
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1 hour ago, majoraxis said:
I bought 2 pack of the 128 Lexar UHS-II cards a year ago and one die, the other one works without an issue. I would not buy them again. I also have 4-5 San Disks cards and have used the much more and none of failed yet and a few are a few years old...
I have lots of Lexar cards. The only one that has every failed was a 633x microSD 128GB card, which worked for half an hour (literally) then became read only. That particular one was a half normal price "deal" from Amazon though, and I suspect that it was probably a fake. Or maybe a refurbished/failed batch that should have been destroyed but instead was repackaged by some shady middleman and sold as new through the grey market.
Amazon are pretty good in terms of returns though, you tell them what the problem was, and they give you your money back if you don't want a replacement (which is what I opted to do). They send you prepaid return labels as well, so it doesn't cost you anything other than inconvenience.
You are probably going to have more issues with the high performance/high capacity cards since those push the performance boundaries and the thermal limits (if you stick one of these things in a small USB card reader you would be shocked at how hot they get when pushing a lot of data). I think many of the issues people have are due to cards spending too much time at or outside a safe thermal envelope and they simply fail due to overheating.
Just reading reviews on Amazon I would guess that about 5% of these high performance cards fail like that, and that seems to be common across the board.
6 hours ago, Ken Ross said:I am currently using the Lexar Pro 1000x, UHS-II Class 10 cards. Although I have no problems with them and have had no issues recording 4K, they are slow to write. So if you need to do some fast run N gun, upon ending your last clip, you may not be able to record your next clip for several seconds. That's the biggest difference I've found relative to my SanDisk. But I'll say this, it's enough of a difference that next time I'd get the SanDisk.
The write speeds on those particular cards varies depending on the card capacity. The 16GB version for example writes at 40MB/s, while the larger cards write at 75-80MB/s. Also, if you are using a UHS-I bus device you will only get half of that speed, so you would be better off using a high performance UHS-I card in that case.
The 2000x cards run at much higher write speeds (~260 MB/s).
All of those cards (with the exception maybe of the 1000x 16GB card) will be throttled by your device write speed, not the card write speed.
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13 hours ago, tomekk said:
If this happened your data prior to this event would still be there. It's just a sequence of 0s and 1s written to the card. Interrupting writing process, aside from losing latest data being saved can corrupt information on how to interpret those 0s and 1s but it doesn't wipes out all the data that had previously been saved. Proper recovery software/company can dump 0s and 1s from the card and reinterpret them for you.
Not if it damages the controller. The data might still be there in memory but it can't be accessed.
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On 5/21/2017 at 7:46 AM, Fritz Pierre said:
Yes...but as IronFilm suggested...it's probably something with B&H ....Adorama lists the camera on backorder...Amazon has it..=probably unlikely to cancel a camera that is selling so well.
Amazon sells my ancient Canon SD camcorder too ....... but that does not make it any less discontinued. Amazon selling stuff, even a lot of it , is hardly a yardstick for product status.
Typically discontinued products happen when production ends, something that takes place when a new model is about to be released.
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11 hours ago, Teemu said:
Hi!
I write short experience from last weekend. We had really long day studio shoots. We had this really huge practical effect build by our special effect guy, 50+ hours of work. Really awsome looking. I shot with my GH5 + my brand new few times tested Lexar 128GB 1000x memory card.
We had shot all we needed and I took out the card. In the beginning of this week I took the card and put it to my computer. It said needs to be formatted. Tried 7 different data rescue softwares, nothing. I went local service where they do data rescue. They inspected it for two hours, nothing. Now I am in the moment we lost everything, and I tried to format the card. Can't do it in any camera body. Not on my computer in any fileformat system (deep or quick format). It is just completely destroyed. I am afraid to cut the card half with scissors or machete, because I think those will brake apart first.
So my experience is now following: do not buy any Lexar cards ever, period.
Are you sure that it is genuine Lexar card? There are a lot of counterfeits out there.
5 hours ago, Davey said:I prefer to buy batteries and memory cards from camera stores - Amazon is awash with inferior copies of small 'everyday' peripheral items.
As a general rule of the thumb if it is way cheaper than anywhere else, there may be a good reason for that.
3 hours ago, Teemu said:Yeah. Well only thing that pops up to my mind is that I turned off my GH5 and took out the card too early = was still "writing" or marking something on the card when shutting down. Or I took it out when the camera was on (not recording) and it was doing something with the card...
But for sure I can tell we played back shots all day long via camera play mode. Everything was playing back just fine. I remember saying to my friend just before popping out the card "oh, I should remember to take this with me. Don't want to lose this material..." Maybe that was the last bit for the card!
So I think it must be a human error. Me popping out the card just one second too early or something.
The card is electronic, so if you pull it out while it is active you could easily have fried something inside. The same thing could happen with cards from any manufacturer, including Sandisk.
Canon C200 vs Panasonic GH5, a preview
In: Cameras
Posted
If you are backing up on RAID and are concerned about storage, use 8TB reds. They are relatively cheap and easy to find. You can get stand-alone NAS servers at reasonable prices (or just make your own), with swappable storage. So, beyond the cost of the NAS case, you just pay for the drives. It definitely will not cost you $17K for 16TB effective backup.