Tone13

I'm sorry if I sound blunt, but that's just plain bollocks.

Like it or not, but capitalism (in its original form) is the very thing that makes it possible for us to have a choice. It makes it possible for us to choose another brand and have nothing to do with one particular milking system. So go choose another dairy. Choose a purple cow.

It's not the fault of (traditional) capitalism if the masses still keep behaving like lemmings and buying the same old stuff from Canikon year after year, even though there are other alternatives around. Even though they're free to choose otherwise.

If we were living in a global communism and Nikon was the official camera maker approved by the Politbyro and owned by the state, the Nikon products would be the only choice you have, and you wouldn't even know about anything better, let alone have a chance to get it.

So if you are one of the people who keep on buying those products, blame yourself, not some alleged milking system. If you want something to change, vote with your wallet and choose another product from a manufacturer with a different milking policy.

Oh and about the Nikon D4s, it's is a niche product rather than a mass market product. There are no doubt plenty of people to whom the new model is just fine, more or less everything they hoped for. Nothing wrong with that. There are plenty of different models to choose from. Even within the Nikon line.

Quirky, you have come on here beating your chest and belittling Andrew for his expectations that this camera has professional video features.

It's true that not every stills camera has to cater to professional video users but when a company markets their camera as having "professional video features" then I would hope that this is true. Andrew is being fair to question where Nikon is coming from with the marketing of this camera.

Sooner or later Nikon will have to invest in their video-department because more of their customers will get both photo and video-work and someone will offer an true hybrid pro-solution (M43 is not good enough).

 

 

M43 not good enough?

 

If you cant get stunning images out of the upcoming GH4 then it is YOU that is not good enough. I have seen fantastic documentaries and films shot on 2/3" cameras. Shallow DOF can (and is) used a lot predominantly to mask lazy camera work.

I've said it once, and i'm sure i'll say it again: licensing agreements. Nikon uses Sony sensors (at least they did in the D4), that means Sony gets to tell them what they can and cannot do with them. 

 

It's the only sensible explanation.

I don't think it works like this in business.

 

Take Samsung, they have been making many parts for Apple iPhones yet they don't dictate anything to Apple. Samsung doesn't cripple the iPhone. I think its nonsense that Sony would dictate to Nikon what they can do with their sensors. Nikon is just not interested in video.

Did anyone really expect Nikon to step up and meet the expectations of video users? Name one DSLR they have released that has done this?

 

Nikon is playing to the stills shooters and stills shooter think that if a stills cameras video function is too good then it mustn't be a good stills camera. A lot of photographers are stupid and Nikon goes along with it.

Apparently, it's recommended that when shooting with the BM4K camera, you keep the ISO around 400ISO. So far it seems to be a really bad performer in low light.

 

For around $1000 less than the MB4K (if the GH4 is $1600 as speculated), the GH4+Speedbooster seems like a much better option. If the claimed "highly improved sensitivity" of the GH4 is true, add another stop given by the speedbooster and this could be a low light contender to the 5dIII.

This may have already been answered but if you buy a PAL GH3 in Australia, there is no record time limit when shooting MOV (Haven't tried the other formats yet).

 

I would assume the GH4 is the same.

 

Still no answer as to the info disappearing after 10-15 seconds. This is a big problem with the GH3.

Global Shutter is nice but I'm not willing to trade it for DR and lowlight performance. Shooting a lot of action on the GH3 at 50p means rolling shutter not noticed for the most part other than camera flashes or lightning. The GH4 should improve on that even more with its 50% improvement on sensor. If you need 4K raw, this is the camera. For everything else I think the Panasonic is a much better thought out camera.

IF I were Panasonic I would try to come up with a new lens 24-90mm 2.8  IS  (fullframe terms) to go hand in hand with their GH4. Allso a small product change to include UHD II card slot in say GH4a  and some other good improvements would be smart for later part of this year. 

 

Perhaps a silent shutter 4K timelapse RAW video feature for instance. 

 

Since it will be only for while that the GH4 holds the fame and then other great products will be released from competitors. 

 

Panasonic already have the 12-35 2.8 IS (24-70 FF equiv) which is a great lens. You want a cine version or just the extra 20mm on the telephoto end.

If I understand correctly, the GH4 will already take 16MP RAW photos with a silent shutter that can be used for timelapse. So, it can in fact do 8K RAW timelapse with a silent shutter!

Hey BM, I applaud you for pushing the boundaries with specs and price but how about releasing a camera when it is ready?

Still un-answered: what's the crop factor when shooting 1080p?

What's the DR?

Unless there is an improvement of at least two stops over the GH3 then I'm not really interested. DR makes your life as a lighting cameraman so much easier. If you have more to work with, it's generally easier to light and more scope for recovery in post. All I want is a 10bit image with 13+ stops DR at 1080p50, peaking and zebra in a DSLR form factor. Can the GH4 deliver?

Great looking camera.

Firstly, I assume that because the screen is as OLED (like the GH3) the info will disappear after 10 seconds to protect it from burn in (Panasonics reason) ? If it doesn't then Panasonic are lying about the reason it does on the GH3 so shame on them. If it does, then shame on them for releasing a camera like this with disappearing info. NO shooter like to be in the dark about what their camera is doing.

Is this 2.3 crop only in 4K mode.? If so, no problem as 4K doesn't interest me.

Do we have an actual figure for DR?

The attachment is disgraceful. Should be a separate box with a breakout cable so I can mount it where I want on my rig. Sony would never design such a terrible looking and functioning accessory. Lazy panasonic. I wonder how long it would take for a third party manufacturer to make something similar?

1080p 8bit 4:2:0 internal codec. BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Other than that. Looks great so far.

A noble cause but Blackmagic have already done the same thing... with digital.

 

Again GH3, GM1 and BM cameras with speedboosters?

 

If, you are going to add the Mosaic filters to improve the weak canon cameras, how about speedbooster to make up for the smaller sensor and low light ability?

Why do people come to a site that is primarily discussing film making EQUIPMENT and then go on about 'content is king'.

 

The technical side of film making is also extremely important at telling a story.

Ok, I know this list is purely for cameras in their stock form (EDIT: there are many cameras here not in their stock form) but I would be very interested on how you would rate something like the GH3 or GM1 with Speedbooster. I say this because you say you scored some cameras higher because you like the look of the larger sensor (subjective). If you add a Speedbooster to the GH3 or GM1 to level the playing field on your subjective taste for larger sensors, where would they score then?

This article is about why you should join the 4K bandwagon. It says that 4K has better DR among other things but this is completely camera dependant not 4K exclusive so this will confuse many new videographers who come here for information. Thats all.

It has two CF card slots. I don't believe you can record direct to them on the launch firmware but the SSD is enterprise class, rated to run 5 years continuously.

Enterprise class or not, drives fail. You cannot record to the SD cards directly so if your SSD drive fails during a shoot you are screwed. Royaly!

 

I just don't understand what is so hard about having a slot loading SSD port. A Blackmagic hyperdeck shuttle only costs $400, contains an SSD slot, transport control buttons, Blackmagic make money on it, the distributor makes money on it, the retailer makes money on it so how expensive do you think just the slot mechanism costs? Less than $50. Would it be so hard to include one on this camera? No. They have made this decision PURELY for aesthetic reasons. Plain Stupid.

 

Im being harsh but in this day and age, after all this time in camera development and evolution, stupid mistakes like this are still being made. Do DigBolex have the end user in mind when designing these cameras. Great picture quality, DR and global shutter are great but there is more to a camera than just the image it produces. People have to use these things day in day out.  

Non removable media?

This is obviously for aesthetic reasons but what happens when your SSD dies on a shoot. Can you easily swap a new one in?
I've had drives of all types fail so creating a camera with drive that is not easily removable seems ludicrous to me.

Please, function over aesthetics!

Is that aimed at me? I guess not because I never made that strange assumption. ^

My comments were originally aimed at the article that states that 4K is better because........
While technically the codec has the capacity to carry an image with higher DR, assuming that one camera is better than the other just because one in 4K and the other isn't is incorrect. I know and you know that the sensor needs to be able to produce the high DR in the first place, many people reading this site to collect knowledge on the subject matter may not.
No point having a codec that can produce 15 or even 20 stops of DR if the sensor in that camera can only provide 12.
The title 'why I'm going 4K and why you should too' seems to suggest that if you but a 4K camera, you will get all the advantages listed. Yes, the codec has the potential but most cameras for now, especially at the consumer level, will not make use of it.

Whatever, but 4k brings with it a new specification, BT2020.

http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bt/R-REC-BT.2020-0-201208-I!!PDF-E.pdf

In that specification it explains how the wider DR and wider gamut will be transported in the codec. A tweaked rec709 transfer curve (at the low end) and different color primaries wider than rec709 in a 10bit codec, maybe some camera manufacturers will offer 8bit LOG still to try to carry that gamut and DR. 4k is not just about resolution. Although anyone can choose what they take from the new 4k standard.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1496765/smpte-2013-uhd-symposium

http://www.ultrahdtv.net/what-is-ultra-hdtv/

That's all assuming the camera sensor is capable of providing wider DR and as long as the display technology supports BT2020 to show it. Bearing in mind LCD technology with these crap computer monitors struggle with a contrast ratio and elevated black level to even display a decent rec709 image (5 stop curve) without a UHD spec'd display those benefits won't be seen apart from the resolution, again as long as the camera provides a decent image.

We already read about how camera raw offers wider DR over a typical rec709 or sRGB curve compressed video output and the BS talk of highlight recovery, aka tonemapping in this case to get that wider DR to display on crap or rec709 limited monitors.

The new BT2020 transfer curve, it is suggested along with the 10bit coding should allow that DR through, even in a compressed codec.

I guess first release of cameras and displays will offer 4k resolution, 1080p mode and rec709 back compatibility, then later releases the BT2020 UHD specification and wider gamut in some mash up of specifications to pick through. Although we've already had xvcolor (xvYCC) extended gamut via rec709 primaries and 'Deep Color' higher saturated colors and neither taken off, just marketing hype.

While there is no doubt that the 4K codec brings many advantages, it's just plain wrong to say 4K is better when many factors (mainly the sensor) contribute to the image properties. So will the Sony 4K handycam have better DR over Alexa because it is 4k and Alexa is not?
I can see where your coming from but stating that 4k has better DR just because it's 4k is plain wrong.

Now while the 4K codec is impressive on paper, the same qualities could have been given to a 1080p codec at much lower data rates with similar results (other than resolution obviously). Why would they now create a killer 1080p codec when they are trying to force 4K down our throats?
Business men in suits have given the massed 4K, 99% if consumers and professionals alike have not requested it.

Not sure how a 4K recording has more DR than 1080p?

The BMCC has 13 stops of DR and the 4K version has 12. Different sensors but the 4K version has LESS dynamic range. What I'm saying is that just because something wears the 4K badge, does not automatically mean it is better.

4k for the masses is marketing hype driven to get your money wether you need it or not.

Try reading again.

"New H.265 codec on test - ProRes 4444 quality for 1% of the file size". Prores 4444 is quite a lot larger than H.264...

And much better quality than h264. Yes, visually the difference might be very little if not anything at all but you don't choose to record in 444 over 422 for the visual difference, people can't tell the difference). You choose to use 444 for post work. I guarantee h265 is nowhere near as flexible as 444. Unless h265 grades and keys as good as 444, then it's not the same quality.

The comparison is silly.

I think you will find that this claim of 1% the size is a complete load of rubbish. H265 aims to halve the size of H.264 not reduce it by 99%.

Not only is it unbeleivable that this misinformation has been unchecked by other sites and re reported, also surprising is how gullible people can be

You'll find that the networks are being offered this new 4K "pan scan" replay technology, initially to use for free by the equipment manufacturer. They are not going out looking for it. Either way, eventually 4k will be with us at home. Do we need it? Consumerism at its best?

The technology that NBC is using for the 4K crop-able replays is not on all cameras. It's one wide angle shot that the replay OP can crop into. Not all the cameras are 4K and the OB is not recording 4K or using a 4K vision desk.

When they say this sensor is the "lowest noise sensor on the market" are they comparing it to other MFT sensors or ALL sensors. Lower noise in high ISO's than a 5DIII?

Panasonic really need to make this camera 10bit 422 in camera at 4k and 1080o. At least the SDI bolt on should give you 10bit........