cantsin
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Posts posted by cantsin
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The likely achilles heel of the Pocket 4K IMHO are the prominently exposed ventilation slots on the lens turret, even on the upper side of the camera. I means that the camera (aside from not being weather-sealed in any way) should never be used in any rainy/humid or dusty environment. - Anything that lands on the camera and travels through these slots will end up on the sensor.
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1 hour ago, Luke Mason said:
Trust me, I have my hands on some ProRes and DNG materials from the camera (acquired from NAB), it's clean af up to about 6400. Noise pattern is very pleasant fine grain, due to lack of compression obviously. The sensor is confirmed to be IMX294CJK, it's the STARVIS line from Sony Semicon with BSI design, originally intended for low light surveillance.
ProRes screenshot:
Would it be able for you to upload the original camera video file somewhere (for example, WeTransfer, with the download link here on the forum)?
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11 hours ago, webrunner5 said:
Its going to be damn hard to sell a Sony A7s mk III for over 3000 bucks, it just is I don't care what it has in it.
If it has a flip screen, dual pixel AF and good in-body stabilization, it will sell to the Vlogger crowd, even if the codec will be still 8bit.
I think that we're now on the crossroads where prosumer cameras (including all DSLRs and mirrorless bodies by Sony, Panasonic and Canon) will go the VLogging route, while cameras like the BM Pocket will be used for filmmaking.
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9 hours ago, Davide Roveri said:
Not sure about that.. as far as I can tell 1080 still use the full width of the sensor and it’s downsampled in camera. The camera records windowed when you shoot HFR @ 120fps though, not sure if there is an option to do that at normal speed also...
Blackmagic has clearly stated at NAB that the 1080p mode is windowed.
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1 minute ago, eoslover said:
wondering if we can actually use powerbanks for battery via that USB-C
Yes, we can.
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There's one overlooked goodie in the new Pocket: In 1080p crop, sensor size will be almost equivalent to classical 16mm film or 2/3" video. That means that all vintage 16mm lenses - such as Kern Switars and c-mount zooms - will work without vignetting. (They do vignette on the old Pocket's s16 sensor.)
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10 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:Guess that AF will be bad as CDAF usual - good for S-AF only.BM cameras don't have AF.
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17 minutes ago, mkabi said:
Alright. Fair enough... But, assuming it's the same sensor and cooling.... Your assumption it's the same body. You forget that a 5 inch LCD TFT instead of 3 inch, SSD instead SD slot, 1/4" jacks instead of 1/8" jacks all play a part in internal real-estate as well as exteral shape & size.
I can't find an image of a BMCC teardown, but the sensor heatsink/cooler is quite massive. Even in the big BMCC housing, it needs active cooling through a fan. I don't think that you can put this sensor into a small camera, or only with a fan from hell.
19 minutes ago, andrgl said:DSLR cameras don't output RAW Bayer data.
ProRes RAW is compressed Bayer data.
What manufacturer would be willing to undercut its own cinema cameras with cheap DSLRs?
That's the mystery. Maybe Sony with the upcoming A7sIII. And maybe that camera won't be cheap anymore...
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38 minutes ago, mkabi said:
Your assumptions are based on a 2012-2013 model and that there is zero innovation over at blackmagic... No new sensor, no new processor and no new cooling system...
Blackmagic don't produce their own sensors, they buy them off-the-shelf from industrial camera sensor manufacturers like Fairchild and CMOSIS. Innovation in that industry is much slower than in mainstream photography/video technology. The 2.5k sensor you mention is a Fairchild sensor that hasn't been updated since.
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Just now, mkabi said:
I know there will be the 4K variety in there... And, may be a lower res. version... Preferably a higher res version.
But, personally, I don't see a point for another 1080p camera... It's just redundant.... As redundant as having a 1080p version of the URSA/URSA Mini/Pro....
If we were to have a lower res. version please let it be the 2.5k variety.
Unlikely to happen, because the 2.5k sensor that BM used before in the BMCC requires too much cooling to be put into a compact body.
For me, it smells like a dilemma that BM won't be able to deliver both 4K and high dynamic range in one small package - but can't let people wait more years for an updated Pocket either.
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20 minutes ago, Django said:
and with ProRes Raw probably appearing in future DSLR/MILCs, BM are going to have to be real innovative & agressive to turn heads imo.
I don't think that this will happen. Otherwise we could have had conventional ProRes in DSLRs/mirrorless cameras which didn't happen either. So far, ProRes has exclusively lived in the world of postproduction, external recorders and small/niche camera makers.
- But it could indeed happen that future DSLR/mirrorless cameras, including the upcoming Sony A7s III, will offer external ProRes Raw with Atomos recorders. The resulting package would be more cumbersome than an integrated camera like the Pocket, but beat it in image quality...
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Latest rumor/leak. If true, then this could indeed mean that the new Pocket will be sold with different sensor options.
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16 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:
The 5 things that would make the update WELL worth it.
4K
Slow Mo
Canon Batteries
Full sized HDMI
Flip out screen
I doubt that it will have Slow Mo in 4K raw. The camera is most likely to have an SD card slot and require 300MB/s Sandisk cards for 4K raw recording, which have about 200MB/s (=1600Mbit/s) continuous write speed. That write speed is required for recording ProRes Raw at 4K/30fps (whose bitrate is up to 1400Mbits, according to Apple's White Paper).
Flip-out screen would be unlikely, too, because screens have always been where BM cuts costs. But a robust HDMI port would partly make up for that.
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The problem is that LUTs can map multiple color value to the same color values, thus degrade footage and be irreversible, while a mathematical function (applied to floating point values) is always reversible.
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34 minutes ago, JordanWright said:
Whats everyones current predictions then? anything from specs to form factor.
- 1" 4K 400 ISO 12-stop sensor from the Micro Studio/URSA Broadcast + 1" 1080p 800 ISO 14-stop sensor from the old Pocket/Micro Cinema in swappable sensor+mount units, improved 4k sensor in the future.
- 24-30fps 4K raw (because of cooling and bandwidth constraints), higher framerates in 1080p (and sensor crop).
- ProRes Raw + all other conventional ProRes codecs + CinemaDNG in different quality/compression levels.
- Likely a 4K DNG stills mode.
- Active MFT mount (as before).
- LP-E6N battery like the Micro Cinema Camera, short battery life in 4K.
- Fixed screen of mediocre quality (cost-cutting measure as with the previous Pocket), no touchscreen (as indicated by the three function buttons on top of the camera).
- False color in addition to focus peaking and zebras, maybe a display option for anamorphic desequeezing.
- SD card for storage, requiring 300 MB/s Sandisk Extreme Pro cards for 4K raw recording.
- Full-size, robust HDMI port (like the Micro, unlike the old Pocket).
- Mediocre audio, bad preamps, bad in-camera mic (as with all BM cameras).
- No OLPF, UV/IR filtration still required.
- Maybe a Bluetooth interface + smartphone/tablet camera control app.
- Firmware will be similar or the same as the URSA Mini camera OS, with the same improved user interface.
- Larger housing with better grip, maybe some clever design to improve handheld shooting.
- Price at no more than $1500.
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46 minutes ago, Cinegain said:
Actual cinema cameras aren't exactly going for the pocket thing.
See here: https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera
And compare that to much more successful cameras (in terms of sold units/market share) like the GH2 and GH4:
https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh2-camera
https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4-camera -
Tried to deskew the last image and juxtapose it to that of the old Pocket. Seeing them in this perspective, the new image smells fake:
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New leaked images..
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3 minutes ago, mercer said:
True but irrelevant to the original point that I wouldn’t be surprised if the new pocket had an EF Mount.
Then its sensor would need to be larger than 1". - Well anyway, if the last picture is not a fake, then the camera has an MFT mount again. BM is an official member of the MFT standards consortium, btw.
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6 minutes ago, deezid said:
Since my rant in the Blackmagic Facebook group about using the Sony IMX294 sensor used in the GH5s and a strong Lowpass filter may be a good thing in terms of Dynamic Range, Lowlight, battery etc. and still benefitting BM color science,
If the last picture is not a fake, then it clearly shows an 1"/s16 sensor inside an MFT mount. The sensor on that picture is too small to be a 4/3rds sensor like the Sony IMX294.
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7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:
They are not going to have changeable modules on it get real. The GR was a flop sales wise. Goofy, complex idea.
I just think that this is very real and possibly marketing-driven:
- BM can no longer sell a 1080p camera, despite all its goodness and a better image than practically any other prosumer camera in the market, because buyers are obsessed with 4K. A renewed Pocket camera with only 1080p wouldn't have been marketable.
- The only pocketable 4K sensor that BM had so far is the 1", 4K, 4OO ISO, 12-stops sensor of the Micro Studio/URSA Broadcast. If it had a newer sensor, it could have been built into the URSA Broadcast that was just released two months ago.
- Very possibly, the situation hasn't changed from what BM stated in 2017, and no 14-stops 4K sensor that fits a small housing is available for them (yet).
- So a clunky solution with swappable sensor units, 1080p/14stops and 4K/12 stops, allows to sell this camera both as a Pocket Cinema camera, but with the 4K label.
As said earlier, I hope that Monday will prove me wrong.
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K
In: Cameras
Posted
@jonpais, are you familiar with Poe's law? Irony (often) doesn't work on the Internet, and in this case I (and potentially) other completely misunderstood your reply, until I dug into Andrew's recent postings and realized that you are referring to this one here:
So, just for clarification, the BMPCC4K doesn't have a water cooling system (as it is actually exists for PCs). Humidity and dust can travel into the camera/onto the sensor through the prominently exposed fans.