davidhfe

36 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I don't like the Petapixel article, it seemed to get hooked up on the fact I am "salacious" and stating stuff as fact which everybody knows is lawyer speak. So you have to wonder what the writer's real intention is with this piece, and whether he got in touch with Canon purely to drag my name through the muck with their legal department.

I don't think PP is out to drag anyone, they're out for clicks. Salacious is the wrong word to use here, but seems par for their usual style, no?

This is hugely speculative, even by Internet forum standards:

- The only mp numbers we have so far are from totally anonymous sources reported with low confidence ("CR1") by Canon Rumors

- If Canon designed but was contracting the mfg as speculated above (e.g. apple, amd, nvidia) why would Sony get a SKU out?

- Did Canon ever claim they developed the Powershot sensor? They seem to be very careful with the words "developed" vs "applied" above.

- Canon also has a BSI and Stacked patents, so that's not a slam dunk argument either: https://petapixel.com/2021/01/12/canon-patents-a-combination-high-speed-high-resolution-stacked-sensor/

I would not be surprised in the least if Canon did in fact buy a Sony sensor, developed it with Sony, or developed it but contracted Sony for mfg. But this is super far from a "leak"

20 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Sounds like you're the one with wild speculation that it's the sensor and not the processor!

All I know is that a smartphone can encode 8K in H.265, and that it is the most computational demanding task in the camera.

The sensor readout for 8K can also be done in a smartphone form factor.

The EOS R5 has no excuses for not properly managing the heat.

I am, of course, speculating as I've got the same specs in front of me that you do.

However, some clues it's the sensor vs DSP:

- Some modes with identical compression (4K fine vs 4K) seem to have differing heat issues

- The Digic X doesn't appear to be a slouch, with a 4x+ improvement in processing power it doesn't have the feeling of cut rate silicon, which canon has ABSOLUTLEY done in the past. Digic's that couldn't handle anything other than MJPEG, for instance.

- As you mentioned, there are lots of cameras that do 8K—but anything with this sized sensor has active cooling.

- There is a relationship between heat generated and surface area. Additionally, It's much easier to remove the heat from a 45mp 1cm smartphone sensor than a 35mm sensor.

- Active cooling tends to be attached to the sensor, not the image processor

Maybe I'm super wrong (I'm a designer not an EE) and it's canon being cheap. If I'm on the right track though, canon would have had limited options:

- Provide a camera with fewer megapixels. Nonstarter for lots of photographers.

- Put active cooling on it. Nonstarter for lots of photographers.

- Personally, I'd love to see canon release a 5Dc with active cooling and a larger body to match. They could also license additional codecs that aren't demanded by the stills/hybrid crowd.

30 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Smartphone H.265 encoder / CPU are off the shelf components and not even expensive. Look at BOM cost for a Samsung S20.

Nothing to stop Canon from using latest 7nm node manufacturing if they wanted to.

The EOS R5 overheats because it is not the latest cutting edge silicon.

Frankly, for £4000 it should be!

This is wild speculation. Have you x-rayed a Digic X to determine the process node? The reality is that it's much more likely the sensor is what's generating the heat here, not the DSP.

1 hour ago, Cliff Totten said:

Yup,...that heat has to go somewhere. Without a fan, how else were they supposed to move it out of the body? Some people claimed that Canon developed some kind of new magic metal heat pipe tied to an invisible heat system. To most of us here, this was absolutely expected. Lumix did the right thing buy using a REAL active cooling system for unlimited 6k recording.

Something else. Canon and Sony can allow their sensors to run hot. But, hot sensors are NOISY sensors. More heat causes more noise. Cool sensors are cleaner sensors. This is why most large sensor camcorders have fans. To keep their hot sensors running cooler and cleaner.

Major screw up Canon. Let's see how that R6 runs.

 

I am sympathetic that this is not the be-all-end-all camera for everyone, but ya'll have to understand the compromises you're talking about would make this camera a *deal-breaker* for it's primary market. How would you like canon to address this? A fan is a *deal-breaker* for a lot of 5D shooters. Fewer MP is a *deal-breaker* for a lot of 5D shooters who are already calling this camera "nerfed to please the video crowd, they should have given us 80+ megapixels"

Again, not saying anyone here is wrong: If a camera doesn't meet your needs don't buy it, but you need to keep a little perspective in mind when dropping lines like "Major screw up"