tugela
-
Posts
840 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Articles
Posts posted by tugela
-
-
I read 230 grammes
No way. That would make it lighter than the RX100.
With a 24-240mm zoom on a 1 inch sensor, and given it's general dimensions from PR pictures, it is more likely around 850g or more.
-
I didn't realize the XC10 was that lightweight. What does it weigh?
Just under a kilogram IIRC. It isn't lightweight.
-
How do you guya think now after seeing the Clog footage samples? I am in love with the image and weirdly with the lens, just a very large range that covers landscapes to close ups to telephoto with any optical flaws throuought the range as I can see, no fringing, no corner softness, and of course most importantly how the colours look, DR seems very high in C Log too, and one thing, the sharpness in C log is COMPLETELY off, like the 1DC 0 sharpnrss image which is very detailed yet soft and organic. I love this specific quality and I think it's the sole reason why people see gh4/rx10/ax100/fz1000 to look videoish, because sharpness can't be completely off.
The AF seems to track people'a faces perfectly at 240mm with quite a shallow DOF.
It seems like a camera you can give to an kid, and get great filmic, in-focus, steady images.
I am really falling in love with the C-log image at 2000$ is very tempting, just need to see a lowlight test.
If it does well in lowlight this will be my wedding camera, as I've always wanted AF at weddings and hated changing lenses and wanted shallow DOF but not SO much, so the XC10 looks like a small beast for beauty weddings, wide, mids, close ups, teles, IS 5 axis, 4K res, small size, unlimited recording, just looks lovely for that kind of application where you want a camcorder AF, lens range, NDs, body, unlimited recording, yet don't want to completelt lose the filmic look.
The fact that it's a broadcast approved codec gives a LOT of value too if I plan shooting something and still have the option to offer it to broadcasters, like documentaries and nature pieces.
Just waiting for a low light test.
Footage shot for broadcast can't be transcoded? I did not know that.
-
Looks like they are already here!!
http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/04/possible-issue-with-t6s-t6i-sensors/
No, that is Canon's new anti-sharpening technology.
-
Reduced rolling shutter?
(+10bit, +high bitrate 264/raw)
Encoding is done in hardware, so the camera will never be able to do H.264 encoding. It is not the sort of thing that can be added with firmware.
-
Hmmm... Maybe I wasn't clear. Let me try again. The XC10 AND a 64 GB CFast 2 card AND a card reader cost $2,500 at announcement. Back out the cost of the CFast card and the card reader and you have the price of just the camera... $2,100. The AX100's announcement price a year ago was $2,000. $2,100-2,000=$100. Even if you want to lump in the price of the media and the media reader it is still less than a $600 difference. I just don't know where you are getting that number.
That's irrelevant. Go back and read all those AX100 threads. What was one complaint that came up over and over again? People wanted a more robust codec. Well Canon delivered and... time to move the goalposts.
Neither of those cameras is for me. But let's be consistent when we are talking about them.
You can't "opt out" of paying for the CFast card and reader. So the camera costs $2500, not $2100.
Canon can only provide 305 mbps because of the CFast slot, which was not realistically available at the time the AX100 came out, so obviously it couldn't support higher bit rates. The AX100 is last years model, not this years model. Why is that hard to wrap your head around? The next iteration of the AX100 will likely arrive in early 2016 and it will have higher speed interfaces that allow higher bit rates. H.265 will start to be more widely adopted around then as well, which will allow more efficient storage. I have an NX1, which records H.265 at 80 mbps. Transcoding to H.264 (the same as Canon's codec) at similar quality produces files at *drumroll* ~300 mbps. Number sound familiar?
High performance storage in 2016 may not require a CFast card at all.
-
Why do people have different sets of rules for different manufacturers?
The RX10 does not shoot 4k. It shoots a shitty Sony image (tm). Claiming that Sony will come out with a 4k model at some point (what the f?) will suddenly make the comparison ok? Well maybe Canon comes out with a mark II in two years? The media costs are more for the XC10? Yeah, it does shoot a bigger and better image (duh).
Why are you comparing like children? This is like reading a ps4 vs xbox one fanpage for christs sake.
When Sony comes out with a shitty camera (sony fs100, ax100) people go "WOW look at that shit" just because it's first in the market. Yay?
Even funnier considering none of you have used the XC10 (or probably even the Sony variants).
I have a Sony RX100M3, which uses the same sensor and processor and codec. It is not "shitty" as you call it.
The image quality from that little camera blows my Canon HF-G30 out of the water.
-
That doesn't matter. You can't compare apples to oranges. If you want to compare the price of two cameras that is fine. But you can't include in one the price of media and a card reader and ignore it in a different camera. I mean that is just the basics of comparing two products. Honestly I didn't even realize it needed to be stated. Is this controversial?
And who cares about the cost of the media? One big knock against the AX100 was the codec. Well guess what? This is the solution. You can't have it both ways. You can't ask for a better codec and then complain about the cost of the media that codec demands or start doing voodoo math when comparing the cameras.
I'm going to bookmark this thread and come back in a year. I will be very interested to see these sub $1,000 Sony Handicams that shoot 4:2:2 8-bit color at bit rates up to 305Mbps in 4K internally.
I don't know why it is so hard for people to accept reality when Canon's name is involved. People were gushing a year ago when the Sony AX100 was announced for $2,000. Can anyone honestly say the XC10 is an inferior product? It only costs $100 more and improves on several key shortcomings of the AX100. I'm just trying to figure out why there is such a swing in reactions. I mean if someone last year said the AX100 was rubbish and Sony is full of it then fine. Dump on Canon. But if you were gushing about the AX100 at $2,000 you need to be having some words of praise for Canon today... or at least don't say this camera is a complete joke. Be consistent.
The XC10 doesn't "cost $100 more". It costs $600 more. People were gushing about the AX100 because at the time it was the only dog in town, not because it was superior to the later 4K options that became available. I think it is a safe bet that an AX100 mark 2 will appear early in 2016 with an updated sensor and vastly improved processor, and will probably shoot 4k60p at higher bit rates, perhaps with H.265 encoding for efficiency. There will also likely be a RX10 mark II appearing pretty soon I imagine, which will shoot 4k30P at high bit rates, and be a superior camera compared to the XC10 both physically and optically. And it will cost half as much.
You don't get an option with the bit rate at 4K in the XC10, you have to shoot at 305 mbps. There is no other setting according to the specs. That will give you about 30 minutes of recording time on the CFast card, then you have to stop shooting or put a new one in. That means you will need quite a few of these cards on your person, which will pop the price for the system up considerably.
And you can't say that the cost of the card is included in the overall price tag and "subtract" that, because if you want to shoot HD you don't get that option - you have to pay for the CFast card whether you use it or not.
One more thing, the sort of people who would use a camera like this generally don't give a rats ass about such a high bit rate. It will be used mostly for event coverage of one form or another, and that sort of footage is generally used as is with little modification.
-
I didn't know that. Although here in the US I think a CFast2 card and reader can be had for $400 total. Still $2,100 is not bad when you consider the Sony FDR-AX100 4K was announced at $2,000. Kind of puts things in perspective. If people were taking the Ax100 seriously at $2,000 I don't see how this is a total joke at $2,100. I realize it isn't what most of us want but neither was the AX100. And presumably this camera won't have the comical rolling shutter feature of the AX100. The AX100 is selling for $1700. So it is not inconceivable that the XC10 could sell for $1,800 a year after launch. So $200 more than a BMPCC and EF speedbooster.
But if you shoot 4K you are probably going to need more than one card since 64GB is going to disappear fast at that bit rate. That will pile the cost on pretty quickly. And the HD records to the regular SD slot, which means the CFast card is wasted if that is all you shoot at.
The Sony and Panasonic video MILCs/MFLCs will probably undergo their next technology upgrade in early 2016, so the lifetime of the Canon camera as a competitive product is going to be really short. The XC10 is going to be well outclassed by sub 1K$ cameras in a year from now, so there is no way that $1800 new will be a reasonable price for it then.
Remember, for a fixed lens camera you are not bound by your glass, so product loyalty is much less of a factor in that particular market, it is all about performance.
-
It records until the card is full? Is this the first Canon to do this? I believe everyone else figured this out a half dozen years ago.
Well, it won't take long to fill the card at 305 mbps.
-
No matter how smooth you record your video, it will still look smoother on your TV due to the feature I mentioned earlier. It's not that your camera is at fault, it's that your TV is doing extra work. Also you should note that almost all films are shown at 24fps; nowhere near the 50fps your camera is recording.
Films look jerky on computer monitors as well, it isn't just video we shoot.
TV sets may do interpolation if they have that feature and that will reduce stutter, but more importantly they will adjust the refresh to match the input. That is critical. A computer monitor does not do that, it will refresh at 60Hz no matter what your video frame rate was. So unless you shoot at 60p your video is going to stutter.
-
There is a new 4K Panasonic camera coming at NAB.
Read the full article: http://www.eoshd.com/2015/04/there-is-a-new-4k-panasonic-camera-coming-at-nab/
Are we supposed to conclude from that picture that they are going to announce the release of the GH4?
-
Personally, I couldn't care less about a stills/video camera. Two different cameras for two different jobs.
It will be a professional camera, so most likely dedicated to video with no stills function.
-
Do we know yet if it is possible to do 4K @60p on external recorder ?
If the bit rate is low enough for the data bus, any frame rate can be recorded. The limitation is not the frame rate, it is how much data you can stuff through the interface port, in other words the bit rate.
-
Not surprised by this at all...
Brand new Canon C300 Mark ll...more Lati/DR than the Sony FS7...4K at 60p + more..
expensive..
I do believe this cam will easily be worth $17,000 if you're shooting narrative film/vids for a living..
Imagine all this tech without having to spend hours/days grading your footage
http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/04/more-on-the-upcoming-cinema-eos-c300-mark-ii/
It is a rumor, not a press release
We don't know what the specs will be.
-
Yesterday i talked to an Samsung sale represantive at a lokal store.in germany.
He said there is a fullframe Samsung camera on the way, all samsung lenses can handle fullframe sensors.
The rumored low light capabilities, better DR and maybe switchable APSC crop for 35mm sounds like a a7s for me, so dont let us expect to much.
Head office is not going to be telling sales reps anything until they announce the camera. Typically there is a few months gap between the announcement of a new camera and when it actually becomes available for sale. That gap is when sales reps are given briefings about the new product so they know what to tell customers.
-
They wouldn't stop supplying if they had lots in stock. What is more likely happening is that their production runs are relatively small and they cannot supply every market, consequently they focus on certain markets. Their ability to support products in smaller markets may also be limited, which would impact on the decision to sell them there as the overhead for support may make the products not economically feasible.
You can get the camera and/or lenses if you do it by special order through a retailer (any specialist camera store in a market being supplied cameras should be able to do this for you), but finding them physically in stores is difficult because there do not appear to be many demo units out there. In most places you are not going to be able to walk into a store and buy it off the shelf - it would either have to be ordered in or you will have to buy it by mail order.
The price reduction probably reflects the anticipation of increased competition from new products that arrive in 2015.
It is best to consider the NX1 as an experimental camera for Samsung, one to test the waters with and build their reputation in the higher end camera market.
-
Seems like you're contradicting yourself........ Panasonic will render Canon irrelevant, yet they sell much more......
Panasonic needs to work on their color science with their GH line, something I miss from the older Dvx. No one is going to give up their Canon Slr cameras in favor of Mft format, it's just not going to happen ever...... Canon and Nikon are top dawgs with mirrors cameras behind, even still I prefer Sony A7s and many production companies have been switching from 5D's as we all feel Sony A7s is a much superior "stock" camera.
Outside of aerial work I would prefer many other cameras over the GH4, that digital harsh look just isn't very pleasant at all. GH3 was sharp enough now in 4k it's like pain to the eyes. Black magic worked on Dynamic Range so does Alexa, Red now is working on DR as well. Moving forward Panasonic needs to focus on DR instead of resolution which is what Sony did with tier A7s and imo the best video camera in that price range
They sell STILLS cameras better, not video, which is what this forum is about. If someone is buying a hybrid, they buy a Panasonic, Sony or Samsung, not a Canon.
I gave up my Canon for an NX1. No regrets, at all.
-
Halo products aimed at high end consumers don't drive profits because the sales numbers aren't there. Canon's bread and butter is lenses and APS-c bodies. Its no surprise they're not chasing 4k (and mirrorless) as the companies offering it (Panasonic, Sony and Samsung) can barely make a profit (or are losing significant amounts of money) selling cameras, its still very early for widely available/cheap 4k hardware and its not a critical market space - its a small piece of the pie.
We'll have to agree to disagree because the market share numbers doesn't jive with your assessment of no 4k being an epic failure. Until 4k is adopted by broadcasters and other mainstream means of distribution and viewing, its a small niche market as general consumers are not buying 4k TV's in large numbers - and they will not until they can flip on their TV's and get lots of 4k content. That's years away at best. User generated content is not enough to drive the market as the vast majority have something that 's good enough.
With the 50mp bodies Canon has done something out of step for them - create something that caters to a small niche segment that wants a higher MP body and doesn't care about video. This will be the future going forward as the market continues to shrink since millions of DSLR buyers that fueled the crazy sales numbers over the last 5 or 6 years have a "real" camera and will not be upgrading. I think Canon will fill another small niche soon - a 4k DSLR - with a more video focused 5d next.
Let me say it once again, since you are missing the point. The general market and the upscale market are NOT the same thing. Trends and behaviours in the general market having no bearing on what the upscale market is doing. Unless for bizarre reason you think people who buy 4K sets are buying HD video recorders because the common people are buying HD sets.
They want cameras that can showcase THEIR sets, not someone else's sets.
By all accounts the 4K products from Panasonic, Sony and Samsung are doing considerably better than they expected, so your thesis that the demand isn't there is wrong. Canon and Nikon are not tapping into that demand because they quite simply so not have any products in that market at all. (and please don't say market share bla bla bla, because you are looking at the entire market, not the prosumer market, which is quite different)
-
But you're talking about a small segment of the market, and Canon isn't looking to capture niches with mass-consumer level cameras. 4k for the masses will not happen until there's significant amounts of content - most notably broadcasting - and that's still years away. Its always going to be a gear head niche until content is cheap and easy to access.
You also have to look at the fact that many have moved to flat screens in the last 7 or 8 years, until those TV's start crapping out there will be no reason to upgrade since there's still almost no 4k content. 1080p TV's are also ridiculously cheap - so those looking for new sets can now get 65" or TV's for under $1000, making 4k a tough sell to most of the TV buying population.
Panasonic and Sony combined make up a fraction of Canon's market share - they have to push the envelope and be different to be relevant. Trying to emulate what Canon does simply isn't going to work - ask any Sony A-mount owner. People have been banging the "Canon needs to innovate or die" drum for years and they still own the market.
Its not like they're going to let the cat out of the bag for DPreview anyway, what else is he going to say - "sure we have tons of 4K cameras coming." They have to keep a lid on what they're developing. We'll see what surfaces at NAB.
Let me repeat it.....the people who are buying the mass produced HD screens are not the people buying high end cameras. The mistake you are making is looking at the entire camera market and comparing it with the entire TV market, rather than looking at only the high end consumer segments of those markets, which is where the high margins are to be had. The people buying high end cameras for the most part are also buying high end TV sets and probably upgrade them more frequently than the average consumer, because having the "best" stuff is a status symbol to them. You might think that only professionals or wannabe pros buy that sort of equipment, but in that price range the bread and butter of both markets is mom and pop with money to burn. That is the reality, it isn't you.
The people buying 4K screens also represent the primary market for DSLRs in the $1500-3000 range. If I go down to Granville Island on a Sunday afternoon in summer, most people carrying stuff like 7D or 5D3 are housewives and uncle Bobs. They buy those cameras because they are expensive and want the best money can buy, within reason. Those people also represent the market for 4K panels, and when they shoot video clips they will want to display that on their shiny new TV sets. And guess what, Canons can't do that effectively. So they are failing to deliver in a critical market space. The failure of Canon and Nikon to include 4K video in their offerings in this market segment is a foresight failure of epic proportions.
-
I'm sure Canon is well aware that 4k on the consumer level isn't going to move the needle very much as very few people actually own 4k tv's. Its still a small market. The best selling UHD tv on Amazon US is #49 right now and there are only 2 in the top 70. Even with that, they undoubtedly have stuff in the pipeline.
That being said, I think they'll roll out 4k broadcast cameras at NAB and I think the 5d4 - announced sometime after the 50MP cameras actually ship - will be a 4k camera. It will cannibalize very little from the C100/300's because that user base values the extras that the cinema line brings to the table - proper audio, ND's, better codec and so on. ENG/Doc/Reality/TV crews will still choose the Cinema line. My sister is a producer for a large cable network and many of the series' she works with shoot C100/300's as their main cameras. Same for the countless pilots she screens for the network. DSLR's are secondary cameras in that realm.
Yes, but that #49 probably coincides fairly well with the sort of people who buy prosumer cameras though, so it is very much THE market. The people buying HD sets right now likely have no intention of buying high end cameras for the most part for the very same reason - they cost more.
-
How do you explain the Samsung NX1 then? APS-C, 28MP and yet does 4K with full pixel readout. Barely gets warm. It's cheap. The processors for 4K are already even in smartphones.
That is because Samsung doesn't see impossible like Canon does
. No one told them it couldn't be done, so they went and did it. -
It may be closer than we realize. There was this rumor from 3 months ago that suggested something was coming at NAB.
http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/12/canon-to-target-the-gh4-with-new-dslr-type-cr2/
I wouldn't pay too much attention to that......after all rumours around the 7D2 had it coming with 4K, but that wasn't there when the camera finally arrived.
My reading of the exec's comments is that they are "thinking about it", in other words it isn't coming any time soon. That isn't to say that they will not have 4K products at NAB, but I suspect those will be cinema EOS and camcorders, not a hybrid like the GH4 or NX1. I think it is more accurate to say that they have finally realized that there is a market for such cameras but are not ready yet. If they do come up with something it will probably be half baked like the M cameras.
-
I was kind of thinking the same thing. But Samsung is a little vague on its spec sheet, if you read Dpreview people are discovering the 120fps option and Samsung only lists a Slow/Fast mode in the video specs. Perhaps the crop is an updated option since the processor can do full sensor readout, Samsung seems to be continually discovering more features that are made possible by the considerable processing power in the NX1. I'm still holding off ordering though.
I've seen the 240fps screenshot too, there has to be another big NX1 update coming. The more I shoot with it, the more I like it. My NX1 just replaced the A7s, its so much faster and more responsive, better ergonomics and much easier to set up. I decided 4k internal was better for me. If the NX500 is a dud, there's always the LX100.
The DPReview people didn't "discover" anything. It is clearly described in the manual. That those individuals couldn't comprehend the concept doesn't mean that it was "discovered".
NX1 Dynamic Range Settings
In: Cameras
Posted
Why can't you change it? On my camera selecting Gamma DR gives complete access to the Color, Saturation Sharpness, Contrast and Hue settings.
Go to the menu, Choose the video menus, Select Gamma control and click, Select Gamma DR and press the up button, then select Color, Saturation, Sharpness, Contrast or Hue, after which press the up button to access the slider bars to set it to whatever you like.