tugela

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

And that has what to do with the two posts you are adding to?

Figure it out. I don't speak Swedish so I can't explain in terms you would understand.

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

But thats the 5D mark iii?

(edit: sorry, missed the 4K part)

5DIII does not have RAW footage as part of it's native toolkit, that was added by amateurs hacking the camera. So it does not count since it is not something that Canon "gave" to us.

15 hours ago, Mat Mayer said:

I would welcome an update to the Rebel line that can do 4k: not too big or expensive, maybe a competitor to the GH4.

Not at NAB. Something like that would be more likely at Photokina.

10 hours ago, Jimmy said:

DSLR wise, Canon respond to Nikon... Always have, likely always will.

They have smashed the D5 out of the water (video wise), but need a competitor for the D500... So expect that soon.

C500 II is due....

Then maybe something leftfield, like a new C100 4K with fixed lens.

It will be 4K capable XF cameras fitted out with the DV5 processor. That is a workhorse pro line that does not get a lot of attention and is being surpassed by the competition, so I think there will be updated versions.

5 hours ago, ZachGoodwin said:

 

They were ahead of their time

A lot of the issues with the camera are related to the relatively tiny body it has. I'm pretty sure most of those would go away if they used a SLR sized format.

43 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

How so? Red code can be edited in realtime in any editor on a moddest laptop. 

Besides the Red workflow beeing a bit easier and faster I dont see a big difference. When shooting Red and Blackmagic side by side its equal amount of work.

Whats that river in Africa called again?

Fabrication?

My reading on that is that Canon themselves will have technology demos for 8K (but not necessarily in imminent products). I expect they will be showing the C500II, which will probably have that capability.

I think the "low cost, high quality offerings" refers to what he expects will be shown at NAB in general from many manufacturers, not specifically from Canon themselves.

Surprises? If anything, I expect those would perhaps be the lower end professional camcorders being upgraded to DV5 capabilities (the XF series, which I believe are due for an update this year).

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

We are just gonna have to agree to disagree. And dont think you can and you've failed blind tests before so no point in debating.
Enjoy your camera.

(btw I have no idea what my TV had to do with it, strange comment.)

No I have not. Stop making stuff up.

I have a 65" 4K TV and I have no trouble seeing the difference. I record 4K for me, so how it looks on MY TV set (not yours) is the deciding factor.

I would not want any of the cameras listed. My main criteria is that a modern camera has to be a true hybrid, in that it has to be able to take excellent stills in a broad variety of scenarios, and it has to be able to record high quality video. It has to be capable of taking the sorts of stills I make, and at the switch of a button record video of the same scene. 4K without technology related compromises (such as excessive crop factors) is a requisite. I regard any camera that cannot record 4K as technologically obsolete. I want a camera for the future, not the past. In addition to that I also require that it be ergonomically suitable for my hands. Large cameras like the 5D, and giant cameras like the 1D, simply will be rejected purely because of their size. Very small bodies such as the ones Sony tends to make will be rejected because they are too finicky to handle. The ideal dimensions (for me) would be roughly the size of a Rebel. It also has to have reasonable prices (going north of 2K is a deal breaker).

The only camera I have encountered that meets all of these criteria so far is the NX1. The GH4 sort of does it, but it falls short in some areas with stills. The a7RII sort of does it, but falls short in ergonomics (and in any case costs too much). So far no Canon and no Nikon product comes close to my ideal camera. They make specialist cameras but no true hybrids.

20 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Yes they do.

2.5K in the NX500, Sonys lens road map, Red announce entire cameras.... The list goes on and on. Its not unique.

The only thing that is, is the products BMD offer for the price they are asking. 

I don't believe that 2.5K was ever promised for the NX500 in promotional material. What someone said is that in beta testing it was 2.5K, but that was changed when the camera was released. Rumors and beta testers breaching their NDAs does not constitute "promotional material".

IIRC, one of BMs earlier cameras had some feature printed on the box that the actual camera inside lacked. RAW recording? I forget what exactly. Anyway, it was eventually implemented, but it was pretty clear that their marketing group was running off projections from engineering rather than what engineering were actually delivering. Then, when the cameras are eventually released (at least with the first few models) they often seem to have some pretty significant basic issues that should have been caught by QC, but apparently were not. And that is the general problem with them. Their marketing appears to be way too far ahead of engineering, while the cameras themselves seem rushed to market, and it creates a lot of issues. I don't think any of the mainstream companies do things that way.

IMO the best approach with BM is to wait until the cameras are actually in the hands of users and see if they do what marketing said, and are relatively glitch free, before buying one yourself. Until that happens, just ignore the hype.

30 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Just Red, Samsung, Fuji, Sony and I guess the rest of them but I don't have the energy to google it. It happens, what are you gonna do... nothing. Buy whats available

I don't know about Red, but I'm pretty sure that the rest of them don't issue press releases and advertising material before the product is actually real. Most of the "issues" people have with those other manufacturers after release is that the camera doesn't behave the way they expect based on their personal interpretation of the product information. It isn't really an issue with the manufacturer, rather one with some customers and misunderstandings (together with a blind refusal to accept the fact that they misunderstood).

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 9:04 AM, mercer said:

I don't think that's fair. A lot of people have been waiting for a promised product, perhaps even started planning projects based on these promised specs, or decided against other equipment because of BM's promised specs. Why should they be told how to feel when disappointment is forced upon them?

I am not sure why they would feel disappointed, unless they are fools. After all, BM seem to do this just about every year, and if people watching/waiting for these products are not aware of that, they are idiots. Whatever the pros and cons of BM's products are, it is wise to wait until they are actually shipping them before making any decisions about them.

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 6:21 AM, cojocaru27 said:

look for yourself:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support/video/93298de7281044cf990b1f8783ef7827

As per usual procedure, just before NAB when the next best thing will be announced

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 7:55 AM, KrisAK said:

Wow. That comes across as one of those "sorry to inform you" Kickstarter updates.

Why would they announce the global-shutter BMMCC if it hadn't been successfully prototyped and tested?

So that the suckers will pre-order of course. BM's thing is that they are "first" with anything. Delivering "first" is less important, but being able to say "first" is.

21 hours ago, Syme said:

 

Please quit saying that without any evidence. The processor does not limit the readout speed of each individual frame. The RAM in the NX1 is fast enough to store the data to be processed in way under 1/30 of a second (you can see the clock speeds for the RAM in the kernel source). It can do that in its sleep. Literally. According to the source code, the RAM is running at 400Mhz in sleep mode. There is no way it is de-bayering, scaling, and encoding the video line by line without putting it in a framebuffer first. Yes I know a Samsung representative said the sensor was really fast in an interview, but the official Samsung website says otherwise. Furthermore every third-party test indicates otherwise. The proportionality between rolling shutter and lines of resolution in all real world tests agrees with my estimates. The information in the firmware release notes is consistent with those limitations. Every other camera ever made works like that.

The only way the processor could determine the rolling shutter is if they forced the LVDS receivers on the main SoC to run at a fraction of the rate they could be run at. That would be spectacularly stupid, since there are much easier ways to cripple a camera. Even if they knew about the details of the camera's operation, I doubt Samsung executives would choose to limit the camera in such a dumb, arbitrary way.

Unless you actually have evidence, stop spreading misinformation. It's a waste of time to keep explaining this over and over.

The specs for the sensor in the NX1 have not been published AFAIK. Samsung do have sensors for commercial use that have specs published, but there is nothing to suggest that those are the same sensors used in their cameras.

The fact that stills don't have rolling shutter should give you a clue. Obviously the system is treating data differently when recording stills as opposed to video, and that will be purely processor related. The raw data may be going into the buffer, but how it is used once there is different. The raw data off the sensor is constantly being read into the buffer even if you are not doing anything. The sensor doesn't care if you are doing X, Y, Z or nothing with the data, it is going to be constantly churning it out. What happens later is purely processor related, as the processor selects part of the data set being streamed into the buffer for processing. The processor does not read the sensor directly, it reads the buffer and selects the data it is going to use based on what is there, not what is coming off the sensor. That is why the rolling shutter in stills, FHD and UHD is all different. There is a lag time based on how much processing is being done, and in that time parts of the data set are being overwritten - hence the increase in rolling shutter as processing demands go up.

The flow of data in the (and pretty every other) camera is: sensor - buffer - processor - buffer - card.

When the evidence is staring you in the face and you refuse to see it, what more can I say.

4 hours ago, Syme said:

Reducing rolling shutter significantly without a crop is almost certainly impossible. That's a limitation of the sensor, not the firmware.

More likely a limitation of the processor, not the sensor. The sensor does full reads at 240 fps.

It doesn't sound like it is easy to hack them, but clearly there is great untapped potential in the cameras.

It is too bad that Samsung themselves could not have enabled some of these features when they were developing the cameras. I guess if they had stayed in the market many of these things would have come in firmware updates.

21 hours ago, viranikenya said:

Yup I would agree with one issue only the blackmagic micro cinema camera does not seem to be available on popular vending sites.

It will be once it becomes outdated

3 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

Thats fine. The max speed of UHS-II is 300mbps. Didn't care to mention the lexar as their speed is manufacturer specific and doesn't reflect the max potential of the Uhs-II / U3 technology 

Max speed is 300 MB/s, not 300 mbps. 300MB/s is 2400 mbps.

I think that the "sharpening" parameter on different cameras does different things as well. On some it may involve post processing in camera to produce something like what you would get in an NLE, in others it is just a debeyering parameter. So to use or recommend a specific SOP for all cameras is probably misleading unless you know for sure what each manufacturer means by "sharpening".

I don't think you can really say until users get their hands on it. I am somewhat dubious about the objectivity of review sites like cinema 5d, especially when they are using pre-production models with potentially beta firmware.

As a practical matter, the A6000 cameras are a bit small IMO, especially once you stick good glass on it. Personally I think the general dimensions of the NX1 are ideal, at least for my hands (which are smaller than most). People with larger hands might find the A6300 a bit awkward to use. I think that is an important consideration - does the grip seat comfortably in your hand, so that it feels like an extension of you rather than something you are trying to keep hold of.

Oh, and regarding a successor to the NX1. There is zero hope from Samsung I think. The best bet would be if the product line were sold off to someone else. The NX2 would have been due for a Photokina 2016 release, so if there are any developments on that front we should see it then with someone else's name on the faceplate. If there is nothing then the NX line is done for good.

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

1. It takes 30ms to read out the entire 6K sensor. More pixels to read out.

2. What do you mean by video "lag"? Lower frame rate?

3. I don't really get this... ISO 3200 does not = 280 due to pixel binning

The whole sensor is being read all the time when the computer is on, it doesn't care if you are taking a picture at the time or looking through your viewfinder. What is happening for the viewfinder is that only part of that data set is being processed, and the rest discarded. The reduced processing time is what allows the display to work without rolling shutter, and it is the same reason why FHD has minimal rolling shutter.

Try doing something on the camera that requires additional processing, while looking through the viewfinder. You will see the image slow or even stop while the camera catches up. This is due to the processing overhead and that affects refreshes.

Try taking a long exposure photograph. At the end of the exposure, see how long it takes before you can do anything again. It will take almost as long as the exposure itself. And the reason for that is that all those reads are being stored in buffer and it takes time for the processor to collate them all to generate the final image.

7 hours ago, Phil A said:

There's no rolling shutter because stills use the mechanical focal plane shutter while video uses the electronic shutter. It's quite obvious on cameras which can shoot both mechanical and electronic shutter (A7s, X-T1, ...), one has clear rolling shutter and the other not.

The sensor still has to be read. If you are shooting stills at 1/30th or 1/60th sec, it will be no different from a video frame. You don't see any sign of rolling shutter effects at those frame rates, so the method being used to read the sensor has to be different. The mechanical shutter has nothing to do with it.

If you shoot in burst mode at 15 fps you get full resolution images without rolling shutter, so that sets the minimum read speed the camera is capable of in a worst case scenario.