Clayton Moore

Clearly its about time.  At least they are thinking about it.  Then again they are thinking about the obvious and it does not sound like the market will see anything from them even by next year at least not until late if at all.  Also  Andrew is right on about lenses.  Thats a huge deal for them in that its a very mature customer base they cannot walk away from.  Then again they may need to phase that stuff out over time Im just not sure how.

The other point is that whatever they do thats significant (like global shutter) will most certainly not be at the consumer price point.  Global shutter market wide is considered a professional premium feature. It seems to me they would have to have a tectonic shift in their market strategy.  Canon could decide to really shake things up, but they seem far far to conservative for that.

Anyone used one of these?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NV77MDC/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2TNY2PKIWLQ0H&coliid=I1K3Y3EIIOWZF9

 I know its a knock off of the Varavon.  I just wondered if anyone tried this one.

For anyone thinking about the camera, here is a sample clip right out of the camera for grading.

Have fun!

P1050218.MOV.zip

750 MB download

Clayton

I just wanted to say to the first GH4 shooter to get a Shogun, I eagerfly await both your observations and some 10 bit 4:2:2 sample video to see.  I cant get mine yet but plan to.... until then ............

Just sayin..............  :-)

Hmm I don't know! Human vision!?

Human vision = 120 million photo recepters ( think 120 mega pixels) in the space of a micro 4/3's lens circle in each eye.  About 7 million recepters (pixels) for color and the balance for luma and contrast etc.  Data being sent in real time, in parallel to multiple vision centers of the brain.  Not sure what the processor chip equivelent that reprsents, not to mention the chip speed read-out.

Dynamic range --- eyes = a static contrast ratio of 100:1, but a dynamic contrast ratio more like 1,000,000:1.  Oh and a pair of decent kit lenses.  

SONY has a wase to go I think ... but hey, you gotta start somewhere right .....  LOL !!!!

SONY has made a nice recovery from where they were about 6 yrs ago (company wide).  In the past few years, their camera / video division appears to have been working overtime.  I would say both SONY and Panasonic are the ones to keep an eye on.  

Panasonic is said to be showing a 4k revision to the AF100 at NAB 2015. If they can release a compelling product at a $5-6,000 price point, that in combination with the FS7 from SONY could take a lot of the wind out of the sales over at Canon.  A revised 4K C300 for $12-15,000 would be a hard sell, or at least could be depending on other factors.

I orded the Genus Eclipse today :-)

Thanks everybody - great information !!!   I just got my brand new GH4 and 12-35 today and how its time to make a move.

thanks again

Great looking video there Andrew!

This makes me wonder about what I heard SONY said about the A7s, that it was not possible to impliment a version of even 4:2:0 4k internally without overheating.  But could they have engineered internal 4k in APC mode?  God knows Im no engineer but cameras like this make me wonder. 

Looking for some real world variable ND filter information.  Im getting ready to pull the triger on a new GH4 package.

Thanks

I thought this was hysterical.  

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/welcome-to-the-first-installment-of-pogues-101268781239.html

I worked in Hi-Tech for many years and, Ive really enjoyed seeing how the camera market has accelerated with the speed of technology.  Its also been interesting to see how the artistic personality with all of its quirks and temperament has reacted to all the bumps along the way.  Not the least of which has been the occasional clash between the experienced and season pro running head to head with new user, and all of it being fueled by companies who’s goal is of course to sell product.  

In the end, we all want a rig that fits like an extension of our body, coupled with images that we can shape and mold to fit the occasion.  Oh and at an affordable price point of course.  eh…. not such a tall order — LOL!!!

We are, I honestly believe about 90% of the way to a world where a $2,000 camera body will be producing images that are breathlessly close to a $50,000 camera body.   Its about the quality of pixels of course and world class codecs............as evidenced by the fact that Skyfall was shown wonderfully in iMax yet not shot in anything close to 4k.  …. I still want that tiny little GH4 by the way “grinâ€

Agree with your review Andrew, but I can't shoot 1080 anymore. My two main broadcast clients now demand 4K acquisition (I work in LA). I rent an F55 a lot, but also bought a GH4 as "my" camera to replace my trusty Canon RAW/Nikon setup. 

I was very reluctant to even try the GH4, but having worked with it daily now for about 2 months, I can't go back to non-4K. I'll put up with its many quirks for that frame size. I've dealt with worse in the past :-)

 

When a range of 4K recorders are out I'll try the A7s again, but to be honest I'll probably get an FS7, with the GH4 as the B cam. And one day the A7s II will be out, which will hopefully address the skew issue, which is also a deal-breaker for me. 

 

The image from the A7s is lovely, but only if its not moving, and you're ok with 1080. The S-Log2 implementation is odd, and it tilts WAY Magenta. 

Very well written Andrew and complete.

This is not the first time Ive read about people using the GH4 as B-roll for the F55.  I know someone who did that and it was for SONY who hired him to do an F55 video.  For me its about over-all GH4 ergonomics and the flexibility 4k gives me in editing. I Love the A7s image but Id rather wait for the FS7, which I have the cash for, but Im not ready to move there just yet.  Meanwhile the GH4 will be my 4k training ground.  Its the best value to feature ratio Ive ever seen.

if i had the money I'd have one in PL mount.  8 bit and 24mbs is all that's needed when the image looks good straight out the box.  Why can;t black magic create complete and finished all in one products like this?

Black Magic Cinema Camera with an jaw dropping 10 bit 4:2:2 Prores HQ codec ....oh yea and RAW.   So yes a camera with a similar form factor to a C100 would be amazing!!!!

This does not seem like a very compelling an upgrade to me.  Not as compared to how agressive both SONY and Panasonic are being  right now.  Canon "color science" not withstanding, Im not sure that in the context of the market that they are being very compeditive at this point.  Im very mystifed they did not at least roll in 10 bit 4:2:2 color internally.  I think its still an 8 bit camera which for that much money is very strange.

The comments section to that article on dpreview is like a warzone.

 

The GH series has always been awkwardly placed price-wise. The GH4 is probably the most technologically advanced consumer camera out there (with the EVF tech, focus peaking, DFD, 4k video internally, shutter angle/speed toggle, power efficiency etc) but also gives arguably the least desirable image quality, with unusual colours and tonality as well as less shallow DOF. 

 

It's always a toss-up between having something that is ready to go and shoot or putting up with something that is less convenient but with greater image quality.

 

Awkwardly placed? ..... hmmm ia pretty insightful and interesting thought.  

Panasonic's engineering teams are separate from each other.  The consumer vs. professional groups.  I think the awkward part is that image quality in the consumer group has kinda sorta encroached on the profesional group to some degree.  Ive had conversations with company reps at trade shows who have had issues with access to new models that makes me think there is concern how high end consumer products like the GH4 or  HC-X1000 will show next to their profesonal line.  I thought the HC-X1000 was a professonal product, but the rep I spoke to who was working P2 cameras at the show said he tried unsucessfuy to get an HC-X1000 to be part of his gig that day saying ..... it was a considered "consumer camera".  

So yea I can see how the GH4 given its advanced capabilities has an awkward place in the Panasonic line up.  Ive seen some amazing GH4 stuff shot by very capable DPs with decades in the business.  Some even mixed with SONY F55 footage.  

Part of the advantage of being a blogger is writing about things you like or have an interest in.  The challenge is having a life that includes many things of which, in this case,  writing reviews is only a part.  Unless all you do is review cameras 80-90% of the time you pretty much need to cherry pic, otherwise there not enough hours in the day.

Yea a great post here for sure.  I'll be puling the trigger a GH4 very soon.  Panasonic has really stepped up their game big time here.  Im also considering the added expense of a SONY PXW X70 camcorder to fill in the spaces where a standard video camera is needed.

FYI for those fragile HDMI ports I found this:  http://xproheli.com/products/micro-hdmi-right-to-male-hdmi-ribbon-cable-50cm

If any of you out there are using the Sony UWP-D11 lav mic, tell me how you like it so far and share any audio samples you might have.

Thanks

Sorry, of I missed it but ..... did I miss the A7s review pt 2 ?

> I honestly don't understand why people are so upset over what Canon are doing or not doing

 

I think people are upset because they bought the 5D Mk II and invested in Canon lenses thinking that Canon would continue and improve upon what they started, in the same relatively affordable price range.  Instead, Canon put the next version of the 5D on ice for almost four years and told Canon DSLR videographers that if they wanted any improvements, they would need to take out a second mortgage on their house and get into the high-priced Cinema Series.  To rub salt in the wound they withheld basic video features on their DSLRs that they were happy to give to the cheap small-sensor camcorder crowd.

When you can get a head-phone jack on a $249 Canon camcorder but not on the $2,000 6D (like the 7D also advertised by Canon as being designed for videographers), there is no way that can be explained away.

 

Yes, you can sell all your Canon gear and buy something with more up-to-date video features at a more reasonable price from a different manufacturer.  But for true Canon fans, it's a sad occasion when they have to do that, reflecting on what could of been if only Canon had stuck by the folks who helped them start the whole DSLR video revolution in the first place.

The important part of your point is customerfs buying into the Canon ECO System with lenes etc. at an affordable by the masses price point then down the road finding that they have been priced out of the market.  Now clients want a more updated look ......... so its frustrating but time to move on.

 I've said this before, we are very close to a time when cameras will make images very close in quality to each other.  So the challenge is how to distinguish yourself in the market.

Both SONY and Panasonic are being very aggressive in that way.  Its not likely that Canon could justify a camera (C-400) at over $10k that would offer more then an SONY FS7 would offer for less money.  Thats, in my opinion, whats taking Canon so long to pull it together.  What could they offer that would compete with SONY in that way?  What could they offer that would justify a higher price point? -- image quality wise.  Its a brilliant move by SONY and they don't even seem to be afraid how their F5/F55 market might be impacted.  Honestly would could Canon come up with at this point?  It would have to be something pretty compelling in my opinion.  Its not the same market that it was when either the 5DMKII or the EOS cinema line came out.

graphicnatured - it's a bit frustrating that Black Magic was not able to at least get the BMCC camera body designed to not be so dependent on gear to work handheld. Cost I'm sure. Still if they (black magic design) had engineered a way to move camera functions from the touch screen to an optional hand grip - just that alone could have been huge. I'm Leaning to the GH4 for the "internal" 4k. I've seen amazing footage downscaled to 1080. Well shot footage, that came close to the BMCC. Since I can transcode GH4 4k into 10 bit prores 4:2:2 (1080) for editing that gives me plenty of room to work. But I'm still thinking It out more before I click "place my order" 😄

There is NO WAY that Panasonic, Sony, or gh4 have better image quality than Blackmagic cinema and Pocket. And please don't bring up resolution, cause I don't care about that element. When it comes to color science and dynamic range, and subtleties of these images, Blackmagic is better.

No question there is a great deal to like about the BMCC, I have used one quite a bit.  Fact is however its more then just how it looks per se.  Given the BMCC horrid ergonomics, if it were $8-10,000 it would not be such a big deal in the market place.  Its the dollar to image ratio that makes it a huge winner.  Having said that its economics and the lack of many features other cameras have, that make it vulnerable going forward if they don't evolve it more.

Great Job Andrew!!!

From CNET:  This may be what Canon is looking at, .... for what its worth.

"How bad has it been for camera makers? Very bad.

In 2010, the crest of the market, the industry shipped 121 million digital cameras, according to the Camera and Imaging Products Association. In 2013, that had plunged to 63 million, with revenue dropping from $15.1 billion to $10.8 billion. So far 2014 looks to be another big step down.............................As the overall market shrunk, the interchangeable-lens camera category actually grew from 12.9 million units shipped in 2010 to 17.1 million in 2013. Revenue rose from $4.6 billion to $6.2 billion.....................In the view of Kazuto Yamaki, CEO of lensmaker Sigma, the market isn't collapsing, it's just reverting to a more natural state. "In my opinion, it expanded too much, and now it is coming back to the normal situation," Yamaki told CNET. "The people who like photography stayed the same. It was a bubble economy for the digital camera market."

Interchangeable-lens camera sales peaked in 2012. Although figures for 2014 so far show little cause for optimism, it's no surprise that the camera industry is galloping toward these higher-end products."