Michael1

A7S is off the table for me without internal 4K recording.  It's just not practical for me to haul around an external recorder, so that limits it to 1080.  If I want just 1080 and full frame, I would get a Nikon full frame.  To my eye, Nikon's look more cinematic than Sony's.

Michael

No problem over hdmi or SDI. DVI is crap anyway, 8bit RGB.

I don't know why DVI is getting such a bad rap here.  Dual Link DVI supports 16 bits per channel (48 bit)!

Michael

Some videos are starting to show up now, some good, some not so good over the past week.

I've always liked the cinematic look of the D800 and D600.  I wouldn't say Blackmagic cinematic, but very nice, nevertheless.  Personally, I think Nikon is sitting on a gold mine, if they would ever put their efforts in that direction.  Obviously, the sensor and some of the processing is already there.  Now they just need to finish the job.

Michael

But don't forget that canon and nikon have different ISO value, cause of the different dynamic range.

A 5d at ISO 1250 is like a d800 at ISO 640.

Look!  ;)

 

Exactly.  I have never understood these goofy tests comparing ISO from two or more different cameras.  If the person who did this video can't see the difference in luminance between these two cameras at the same ISO, then they need to buy a waveform monitor!  Obviously, it has to be corrected for these arbitrary ISOs.

Michael

How do the stills look?

Michael

Andrew, I can see why you are getting burned out.  I even see members attacking you, the moderator.  I don't know what's the matter with some of these people.

A "Report" button, so members could report to moderators those engaged in personal attacks, would be a big help to the moderators, so they don't have to scan through every thread.

"Ignore" buttons are also good, so members can block those who always engage in personal attacks (they don't typically have anything useful to say anyway).

Michael

 

 

I just downloaded the 1.5G vid file from

(GH4) and it really is gorgeous. The annoying thing is having to get quicktime to edit it. I've handily avoided that (and the devastation apple does to my pc) for years. I wonder if I can get the codec and nothing else.

I know what you mean about Apple software running on a PC.  Horrible.

I know you can play Quicktime files with the free open source player VLC Media Player on Windows.  I don't know if that will give you codec to enable you to edit them, though.

You can also try the K-lite codec pack.

http://www.codecguide.com/

Michael

It's good to hear Blackmagic is going to update their firmware with new features soon.  There have been some quality issues, and quirkiness to their cameras, but from what I have seen, nothing beats their cinematic quality in this price range.  It's immediately noticeable to even the layperson.  It appears it may take the other manufacturers quite a while to catch up to them on that.  Blackmagic will need to start pushing more features and make their cameras more polished as time goes on, though, to stay ahead of the pack.

Michael

I don't really see the big concern about the lack of internal 4K on the Sony.

 

 

 

I think the concern is you are buying something advertised as a 4K camera that can't actually record 4K unless you buy something as expensive as the camera itself, and carry around something as bulky as the camera itself (probably more so).  The A7S might be better termed "4K Ready".

Michael

I can't see the A7S (or some variant) not having internal 4K recording for long.  It seems like an interim product to me, as if they felt compelled to come out with a 4K camera, but didn't have time to finish it.

Michael

The A7s is exciting in many ways, but I think the inconvenience and cost of an external recorder will be a deal breaker for many.  I also wonder if using the internal recording will impose the lame recording time limits they have on their other cameras.  I never understood why the onerous EU taxes have to penalize everyone else in the world.

Michael

Very nice comparison test.  The GH4 holds its own.

Michael

I am blown away by how close the 16mp still is to the 4K video frame grab crops.  That's fantastic!  I would certainly love to see more examples of this.  Great choice for subject matter, Andrew.  Text always does a good job of revealing resolution capability. 

Panasonic seems to have really built a camera with the GH4 that may well go down in history as an industry game changer.

Michael

Just my opinion, but I think it is much harder to get hand held shots to not look amateur, than those shot on a tripod.

Michael

Nice test.  Some of the color goes out of the wood table, too, with the CFLs.

Maybe the next test should be LEDs. :)

Michael

Well part of the problem is a lot of people never see true 1080i... let alone 1080p.  I cut the cord long ago.  My over the air compressed 1080i picture blows cable compressed "HD" out of the water.

OTA isn't what it was when HD was introduced, now that stations are splitting their bandwidth with many subchannels.

I can't speak for cable, but I have done A-B tests with Dish Network comparing picture quality with OTA locals.  I honestly could not find much difference with our LA locals.  If I really got close to the screen, I might be able to see that the text on news shows was just a hair sharper on the OTA 1080i signal, and we are talking "full pixel peeping".  On channels with 720p, I couldn't see any difference.

Michael

I agree with Maxonics.  I will also add, that if you look at camera tests, every 1080 camera I have seen actually outputs a "measured" resolution somewhat below the 1080 supported by the file type, usually 750 to 850 lines.  If you shoot in 4K, you should easily be able to get the full 1080 after downsampling.

Michael

Is it just me, or is anyone else reading these comments confused as hell?

Just as an example, a poster shared a video shot with a Leica and a GoPro, saying rolling shutter could be hidden with scratches and dust specks, but I didn't see any of that in the video, which was very well done by the way. In fact, I didn't see any disturbing rolling shutter in the video at all. But it wasn't even shot with a Sony. The rest of the comments just went in every direction, talking about $40,000 cameras and so on. Has logic just gone out the window? 

Yes, I am having some trouble following this thread.

Michael

I couldn't find anything about the API.

Michael

Fair enough.

Michael

fuzzynormal, very well done!

I like the smooth camera movements.  What did you use for a rig? 

Michael

Is all of this conversion really worth it?  The sensor isn't even 4:4:4, and the HDMI port will output 10bit 4:2:2, even in 4K.  I say put a recorder on there, and call it a day.

Michael

 

Dear forum members,

 

As a perfectionist, I'm frequently disappointed by the quality of video achieved (even if it is fairly decent considering the cost of the equipment). Clearly it's some way short of the claimed 1080p resolution of a professional production. Another key  issue for me is the level of noise introduced to the picture (houses tend to be quite dark spaces inside with high contrast areas from the windows too, I feel my forced high ISO settings without additional lighting or HDR options can't be helped at times).

Chris

 

You won't get full resolution without good lighting as Maxonics pointed out.  In low light, the camera goes into noise reduction mode, and there goes your resolution.

For stills, a full frame would work the best, both from a low light performance perspective, and from the standpoint of getting wide shots with less degradation in the image, including less of a fish eye look.  There are some good quality, modestly priced, fast full frame lenses, but you would have to watch your depth of field.  In movie mode, the full frames still do fairly well in low light, although the difference isn't as great compared to crop lenses, since they throw away some of the light with sensor line skipping.

If you want the ultimate in sharpness, I would be looking at the new Panasonic GH4 when it comes out next month, with its 4K resolution.  You would get full 1080 if downres'd in post, too, something I have yet to see with any 1080 camera output (yes, the file is 1080, but the image is not).

Michael

Lot of good information here.  I like that the Panasonic rep gave honest answers, for example on the increase in f stops, rather than just giving a marketing speech. 

10 bit 4:2:2 at 4K on the HDMI port right on the camera body!!  Whoohoo!!!

Interesting that they put in adjustments for "shutter angle" in addition to the original fractions of a second for shutter speed.  They also put in dB in addition to ISO.  Panasonic's background in video really shows.  Panasonic has an edge over the pure still camera manufacturers, or those manufacturers with stills camera divisions that don't seem to talk to their video divisions.

The GH4 really has set a new benchmark for a hybrid camera, and shows Panasonic has obviously seen the trend where people want high quality video out of their stills camera.  They are way ahead of the market with the GH4.  I'm looking forward to seeing it at NAB.  I have a feeling this will be the perfect camera for a lot of people, like me, who go back and forth between shooting stills and shooting video on the same shoot, literally minute by minute, and don't want compromises in either. 

Michael