ScreensPro

Yep, you are gonna have to spend that $300 somewhere, either on Cineform or on extra storage.... In the long term, cineform will be much cheaper.

I will never get the argument that FF is harder to focus.... Just stop down. Sure, you will need to push up the ISO, but you would on the 4/3 anyway, as the sensor doesn't gather as much light.
 
With FF, you can easily match any DOF/Focal length of a m34 sensor. The opposite is not so easy.
 
The only plus point for smaller sensors is getting a longer zoom, but then FF can go alot wider

"However the URSA is aimed at a large crew, large scale productions and in doing so completely turns its back on Blackmagic’s existing indie filmmaking user base."
 
Wow, you really do come out with some absolute rubbish. You do realise the makers of your current flavour of the month, the GH4, also produce high end products?
 
I just fired up my BMPCC, guess what, it still works. It still shoots 13 stops of DR, it is still a beautiful 1080p image, it will still be capable of making an amazing indie film and it costs £650. Yea, the firmware could be a bit fancier.... The day is still young.
 
If they completely fix the firmware, next month, will they still have turned their back on you?
 
My guess..... You are a little angry that they have dared to make something that doesn't interest you.

"I think what he is saying is Panasonic actually finishes their low end products before pushing out newer high end products."
--------------------------------------------------------------
I always thought this place was for the artist? The guy who will jump through hoops to get a beautiful image? The guy who will use a $200 Nikon to get a taste for 4K/Raw/60p?
 
Now, all of a sudden, a couple of firmware glitches (that I also want fixed, but don't live or die by) coupled with the news of them pushing on with a new camera and they are "turning their back on the indie community"?
 
In a perfect world, my £650 cinema camera would show me how much SD card I have left, but I just work out my GB per minute and guesstimate, erring on the cautious.
 
As long as BM keeping giving me huge bangs for bucks, they'll keep getting my bucks... A bit of firmware angst and some new cameras wont change that. They are still firmly the great shining light of the indie community.

"I think what he is saying is Panasonic actually finishes their low end products before pushing out newer high end products."
--------------------------------------------------------------
I always thought this place was for the artist? The guy who will jump through hoops to get a beautiful image? The guy who will use a $200 Nikon to get a taste for 4K/Raw/60p?
 
Now, all of a sudden, a couple of firmware glitches (that I also want fixed, but don't live or die by) coupled with the news of them pushing on with a new camera and they are "turning their back on the indie community"?
 
In a perfect world, my £650 cinema camera would show me how much SD card I have left, but I just work out my GB per minute and guesstimate, erring on the cautious.
 
As long as BM keeping giving me huge bangs for bucks, they'll keep getting my bucks... A bit of firmware angst and some new cameras wont change that. They are still firmly the great shining light of the indie community.

Did they "hold back" with 240p in the FS700?
Did they "hold back" with amazing 1080p in the FS100?
Did they "hold back" allowing the 4K RAW of the FS700 being allowed onto a much cheaper recording option than their own?
 
Sony are a pretty progressive company, in my eyes.
 
People need to learn that datarate usually gets limited, not because of greed or crippling, but because it's a consumer product that needs to have mass appeal and not cause constant customer service complaints about the camera not working with a cheap SD card from Best Buy.
 
The fact they are launching it at NAB suggests we might be in for some pro options though, even if it is via the hdmi slot.

re: stills from video
 
Not all of us need to chase that elusive film look.... We can set our shutter speed higher than 1/48th, in fact, it is essential for certain work. As mentioned, i'm interested because it could be ideal for copter work, which we generally shoot at a faster shutter speed for post stablisation anyway.
 
similarly... ENG shooters who might pull stills for a newspaper while recording video for the media section of that newspaper will not have to go with a 180deg shutter.
 
180deg is just a creative choice anyway. See saving private ryan... does that look filmic to you?

Dynamic Range
Perfect blacks
Motion
 
and, unfortunately for us digital shooters, just a certain magic that I can only put down to the chemical reaction.... it will never fully be recreated digitally.

Increased dynamic range?  I would think yes and no.
 
Yes for when you are talking about less noise in the shadows, but not when it comes to any stops gained for recovery purposes.

Great DR and colour will never be obsolete, and 1080p/2K is proven to hold up on a cinema screen.
 
It's all good.... I'll be shooting ALOT of projects on my BMPCC this year.... I'm besotted with the camera.

this thread was actually quiet interesting and there was ZERO patronising posts until you joined in with the crap'o vision post.
 
time to get banned again i guess.
 
you should really consider guest posts, as this place is quite cool but your single mindedness isn't... your gear lust and canon hatred stops it from being a good place to visit. apart from the occasional good review, you are the worst part of EOSHD, quite strange that.
 
bye bye

But you must understand that some people on here might look to you for direction.
 
They see a nice video, then see you saying it was a bad choice to use the 60D which is "Crap O vision" or whatever you said. They can't afford a raw workflow pr a kitted out BMCC, so put off their project until EOSHD deems whichever camera they buy next as worthy.

It is, yes... but i'd hate to think there are people sat here thinking they need 4K, 14 stops DR, raw etc before they can actually go out and do something cool.
 
I'm still making money off stuff I shot on HVX200..... there will always be something better, a new spec to drool over... But don't waste your life waiting.
 
Go Do

It makes 100% sense if that is all they could afford.

for as long as I have been on these film/video forums.... The holy grail has been the "film look".
 
first it was "we must have 24p", then "we must use 1/48th", then "we need large sensors", then "we need to add film looks to the grade", then "we need more dynamic range", then "we need raw". I'm sure next it will be something like "we need global shutter".
 
All the above helps... but the fundamentals of the "film look" remain the same... The craft. Composition, lighting, camera movement and sound. Get those things right and you could use any camera from the last few years and it will look like a good production (of course, the acting and script need to back that up).
 
Vincent Larofet (?) was mocked for saying the MoVI was the next big thing, but i'm 100% with him. It is a tool for the craft, not the pixel peepers.

The most important spec there is the 10bit/4:2:2
 
I'd rather have raw 1080p (5DIII) than 4K.... But if it really has 10bit/4:2:2 it becomes an interesting option.

The most important spec there is the 10bit/4:2:2
 
I'd rather have raw 1080p (5DIII) than 4K.... But if it really has 10bit/4:2:2 it becomes an interesting option.

I just saw a full F3 pack on reduser for $5k.... Wish i was based in USA, so much cheaper!
 
Trying to find which external recorder I would need for 1080/60p... Really love the F3 image and think it was an underrated camera.
 
btw - just saw a Sony F65 package on reduser for $40k! Sony really need to learn to market their high end gear.

The most important spec there is the 10bit/4:2:2
 
I'd rather have raw 1080p (5DIII) than 4K.... But if it really has 10bit/4:2:2 it becomes an interesting option.

I just saw a full F3 pack on reduser for $5k.... Wish i was based in USA, so much cheaper!
 
Trying to find which external recorder I would need for 1080/60p... Really love the F3 image and think it was an underrated camera.
 
btw - just saw a Sony F65 package on reduser for $40k! Sony really need to learn to market their high end gear.

I know it is not raw, but have you looked into a 2nd hand Sony F3? I've seen some amazingly cheap prices, kits for $5k or so.... couple it with a BM recorder and you are shooting 10bit S-log at 13 stops DR with alot of nice video features and quality audio.

I assume you didn't live through the years before that... Lugging around s35mm adapters and HUGE rigs to try and get something even close to filmic? Paying through the nose for 1/3" sensors and about 7 stops of DR?
 
Seems like it all came a little too fast, too cheap for you and you are now left wondering why that initial rush has slowed down.
 
Alot of us are still kind of amazed that we can get really nice quality, full frame cameras like the 5DIII shooting footage that blows clients away (yes, even without a hack).

I think it has probably plateaued now... there will be improvements to workflow and higher continuous shooting at higher resolution (in crop mode)... but certain things just can't be improved on, as they have to continuously tell people who ask for full frame 4K, or 120fps.... (though they occasionally have a breakthrough with new code).
 
As Ben stated above though.... You could buy it now , install a stable version and never update it again and you would still have a great camera for the coming years. The 5D range also hold their resale price well, so we the next big thing comes along, you could sell and reinvest.
 
One thing, have you though about audio? I know they are making some strides on that side of things, but it might never sync perfectly

I don't understand this post.

DSLRs are for photographers. They are made for stills and not video. It's just so happens that we have adopted it as a filmmaking tool.

If you are a serious filmmaker, Canon want you to buy the Cinema EOS Line. Nikon aren't interested. Fuji, erm... No need to bother. Panasonic...they have plans and want you to buy into their M43 system. They get punters in with the GH line, to then offer video based models later. ;)

So what if Nikon haven't bothered with a video feature in this camera, who cares?

Technically, hobbyists don't need professional features. Professionals need professional features and therefore buy professional cameras.

Blackmagic cameras are for pros and lack many pro features. Canon etc, I expect, don't care. It's very niche.

I'm not sure why ML RAW comes into this in any way at all. The effect this has on the market is literally nothing. It's a hack. It's not a feature of the camera. ML RAW is a discovery, it's not a market leading feature.

The annoying fact for most is that if you want a camera with better features, you need to get shooting and earn some money. If it's just a hobby, then why would the camera manufacturers screw their business models by giving top features to people who just want to point and shoot? It doesn't make any sense.

There is a feeling that manufacturers (Canon especially) are not putting in the juice they could even into their pro cameras. This is true, and it happens because they are a business who want to make a profit.

I don't think the camera companies are out of touch. This forum is out of touch. The camera companies believe they are catering for you, and as we are all buying their cameras, they are. ;)

One is available now, the other could be months/years away
 
Unless you 100% feel the need for 4K and global shutter (at the expense of DR),  go buy the 2.5k and get shooting... Get the MFT mount and invest in a couple of nice primes.
 
I faced the same dilemma as you and opted for a 5DIII. Great camera, beautiful raw image and will keep it's value better for when I trade up to the next generation product