Simco123

There were plenty of very soft D800 videos too. Shapening in post editing is not a trick but part of grading process. Ideally the best video capture are flat soft profile to preserve better DR. Videos don't take shapeninig the way stills does it.
[quote author=jindrich link=topic=478.msg3129#msg3129 date=1332941721]
[quote author=Simco123 link=topic=478.msg3125#msg3125 date=1332940420]
Why jump ship to Nikon? The video footages from the 5DIII by Phil Bloom blew anything I have seen from D4/D800 in terms of detail rendition. It is those who bought the D4/D800 for videos the ones who need to jump ship.
[/quote]
Maybe you should to look further?

A few of the (1080P) D800 videos I've seen are better resolution wise than anything from the 5D3, and those D800 videos were straight out of the camera without any sharpening tricks.

I'm waiting for my D800 test unit to arrive. If I find it better, I'l take a pair. Else, I'll get 5D3s. I don't mind brands.
[/quote]

[quote author=popalock link=topic=478.msg3123#msg3123 date=1332939550]
Canon are going to stay at the top for sales, just like Apple with the iphone, not because their product is the best in all ways, but because the total package is convincing AND because jumping ship to another brand will be a painful process

Life just isn't fair..
[/quote]

Why jump ship to Nikon? The video footages from the 5DIII by Phil Bloom blew anything I have seen from D4/D800 in terms of detail rendition. It is those who bought the D4/D800 for videos the ones who need to jump ship.

Werent video on the D4 suppose to be load of rubbish ???
D800 HDMI out is only 8 bit. Looks like the first impression of the 5DIII handed Nikon some PR bonus points but we all know Canon has got something up its sleeve as Phil Bloom has just unleash the 5DIII video's potential. And if push to comes to shove there is always the firmware option to uncripple clean HDMI possibly 10bit and better.

Phil Bloom gave his blessing to the 5DMkIII video abilities

[url=http://vimeo.com/39292404]Canon 5Dmk3 video review[/url]

It is all in the post. I knew it was to do with workflow and Canon deliberately gave it a flat profile because they werent able to implement a picturestyle equivelent for video in camera. It would have been better if Canon had made this known publicly.

You know 4k is the new high MP. People are forgetting lowlight performance and VQ (video quality) ;)

Didnt everyone was saying how soft D800 video is up untill the last few days? What caused the change of heart?
Andrew, my offer still stand if you want to sell your 5DIII ;)

BTW that D4 footage in 2.7 crop looks soft to me. Is someone wearing rose tinted lens?

I'm wondering if Canon deliberably gave the 5DIII a flat soft profile for the video so it can be graded in post and was pressured to get the camera released with the D800 so didnt include user settings for video? There should be a selection like picturestyle for stills entirely devoted to video that can take on sharpening well and am surprise there isnt one. Maybe a firmware update might include this?

[quote author=jindrich link=topic=455.msg2916#msg2916 date=1332612145]

On the other hand, when shooting at 1080 all the nasyness go away and resolution shown is impressive. It's not free of some artifacts, but neither is the 5D3, which still shows moire at times (see video with the guy and a Lowepro bag)

[/quote]

Are you sure that was a 5D3 and not a 5D2 :-\

[quote author=MatthewP link=topic=455.msg2904#msg2904 date=1332581963]
I expect that in a few years Nikon will have some excellent video capabilities on their DSLRs - they have no video division to protect, so they'll not hold back! No point speculating on what they might come up with, but if they just sort out their downscaling, and maybe provide a better codec/resolution, they're in for a lot of sales. They just currently don't have the expertise available - that's their limiter (whereas Canon's limiter is the marketing department, making them slow developments down on purpose).
[/quote]

Except protectionism and conformatism is a Japanese thing. Nikon had to toe the line like everyone else regardless. The only exception is unless there is a new standard in sensor size or technology that hadnt been explored by others they can breakout on their own, ie 2.7 crop.

[quote author=FastFisher link=topic=455.msg2895#msg2895 date=1332555911]
https://vimeo.com/39081477
[/quote]

Not a great deal of different between D800 internal and HDMI out and 5D2, all suffers from moire, a touch worse from the Nikon. Some of the sharp samples people are seeing is down  to workflow.

To be honest that D800 sample is no sharper or detailed than the samples from Canon's website? I belive there is either something with your workflow or a firmware issue.

I haven't got a 5DIII but someone said their RAW still image when processed with latest DPP it automatically turns moire reduction on making his image looks mushy. I'm curious have you got moire reduction enabled in your video editor? It could even be turned on by the 5DIII files or that the softness is susceptable to moire reduction enabled?

[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=444.msg2848#msg2848 date=1332498138]
Do you have an orange sun tan as well Simco?  8)

A generous offer but I shall hold off for now... 5D Mark III remains with me for now. I'm seeing if I can work with it and solve some of the issues like the codec noise and softness in post.
[/quote]

So there is still hope with the 5DIII? It will probably take another 3 years before Magic Lantern makes any meaningful but incremental hack since the 700 lines cannot be improved upon by firmware alone. Just think a grand will buy you a GH3 due out in a month or so.

[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=444.msg2822#msg2822 date=1332454131]
[quote author=5DGH link=topic=444.msg2810#msg2810 date=1332444620]
[quote author=5DGH link=topic=444.msg2800#msg2800 date=1332434463]
"Today I bought a Sony FS100."

Considering what you've said all those years, not to mention your criticizing others, I find it very surprising that you bought FS100 - just like the others.
I understand your disappoint with 5d Mk III but you've always hailed GH2 over cams such as FS100. In that regard, nothing is changed. GH2 is still GH2 and FS100 is still FS100. Yet, you're now with FS100.
What gives?
[/quote]
Now you're listing all the good things. A while ago, you wrote this: [url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/588/the-sony-fs100-why-professionals-are-all-mad]http://www.eoshd.com/content/588/the-sony-fs100-why-professionals-are-all-mad[/url] along with many other posts & mentions dissing FS100.

If I'm not mistaken, articles on EOSHD is not written by a team of people, right?
[/quote]

I'm still the same person but I've changed my mind about the FS100. Substitute FS100 for F3 or C300 in that article and it still stands  ;D

My point there was that the FS100 was £4500 more than a DSLR, yet similar image quality (to GH2). That is still true but we are talking about the £3000 5D Mark III here. The FS100 is a year old and has come down to around $4000 used and $4699 new. The one I bought cost £2750 when converted from the USD price of $4300. The UK RRP of the 5D Mark III is £3000. So it actually works out cheaper to get a FS100 than this particular DSLR, with all that extra video functionality.

And last time I looked, 5D Mark III doesn't do slow mo does it?  ::)

Things change, and I change my mind to adapt...
[/quote]

Andrew, since that you are so unhappy with your 5DIII I can do you a deal and swap my GH2 immaculate condition with Lumix 14-140 lens with Quantum hack plus my lightly used 5D2 body with only 5,000 shutter actuation, that is equal to around £2k at current used market for both and I will add £1,000 in cash to push it up to £3k.
David Dickinson cant make you a better offer?

Sara, is there something between you and Andrew ;)
Don't want to start rumours but I wish I had a GF who stood by me thick and thin like you do with Andy :(

[quote author=dangerzonerj link=topic=434.msg2780#msg2780 date=1332394725]
[quote author=Simco123 link=topic=434.msg2777#msg2777 date=1332391550]
[quote author=dangerzonerj link=topic=434.msg2759#msg2759 date=1332365347]


People saying here that GH2 has no comparable DR to MKII must be insane or never touched it! Really!!


[/quote]

You need to go to Specsavers. 5D2 has great DR, only wish GH2 has the same nice nice roll off and not clipping highlights.
[/quote]

We got a MKII and its DR is nowhere nearly as usable as GH2 hacked (It lacks detail although FF has its advantages). Is a good camera but times passed and there are other boys in town. We've finished our tests for our MKIII today and all I can say is the same that is being said all around. It has a great low light sensitivity but at cost of detail in shadows. It is really mushy! We didn't try to compare with our F3 because it would be nonsense (we expected not months ago)
We've stopped down a 85mm 1.2L to 5.6f to really see the maximum sharpness as possible and with same settings of our MKII the results is the same, but without false colours, moire and aliasing and that's very good and the bare minimum for a camera 3 years later. Of course less compression is a big plus! But the thing is: It has the same resolution of MKII, it is still in the 700 lines league. That is a big minus for me but its my opinion, my boss liked it... lol So it is a matter of preference, if you like less definition ok... This camera is a good contender and can grade well as Stu Maschwitz showed on Dan chung's test.
So it is a matter of paying $3500, throw 1k more and get a FS100 (with its own problems but nonetheless a good camera) or wait until NAB and see fi something new appears on the market.
I think the 4k C EOS is a big myth... For me, MKIII is an awesome stills camera and a good FF video camera nowadays...  :-\
[/quote]

Read my reply to Sara who also seem to forgot what we had discussed not so long ago.

We talked about this before. DR as in point of capture not the actual latitude with a video footage. GH2 clipping highlight don't cut it for many bright outdoor videos.

[quote author=Sara link=topic=434.msg2779#msg2779 date=1332393094]
[quote author=Simco123 link=topic=434.msg2777#msg2777 date=1332391550]
[quote author=dangerzonerj link=topic=434.msg2759#msg2759 date=1332365347]


People saying here that GH2 has no comparable DR to MKII must be insane or never touched it! Really!!


[/quote]

You need to go to Specsavers. 5D2 has great DR, only wish GH2 has the same nice nice roll off and not clipping highlights.
[/quote]

I don't agree, nor do many professionals using the 5D.  Watch the Zacuto productions where the filmagraphers who actually use the 5D for big budget work clearly state (as do the tests) that the 5DMK2 does NOT have a lot of usable dynamic range.  Don't confuse dynamic range with what a DP would consider acceptable for a film - mushy video with little detail isn't usable dynamic range.  Sure you might get an image - but there is no point.

Watch this episode:

[url=http://vimeo.com/24334733]The Great Camera Shootout 2011: Episode 1 ~ "The Tipping Point"[/url]

Not trying to bash the 5D nor am I saying the GH2 is great either.  I owned a 5D and am hoping the MK3 has something special was well (still waiting).
[/quote]

Dan Chung has chosen 5DIII over D4/D800 and he played with all the big guns. So we know which camera came out on top with videos. I never recall him using a GH2 but then he only shoot with FF dSLRs.

[quote author=dangerzonerj link=topic=434.msg2759#msg2759 date=1332365347]


People saying here that GH2 has no comparable DR to MKII must be insane or never touched it! Really!!


[/quote]

You need to go to Specsavers. 5D2 has great DR, only wish GH2 has the same nice nice roll off and not clipping highlights.

[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=434.msg2731#msg2731 date=1332307084]
[quote author=Simco123 link=topic=434.msg2728#msg2728 date=1332306156]
If GH2 can improve on the DR, highlight roll off, wacky consumer colours and electronic look I will always look for answers in a dSLR.[/quote]

That is a really wacky statement. The GH2 keeps more of the original DR from the sensor than any other DSLR on the market. Compare how much is in a 5D Mark II raw still to what is left over in the video mode. DR in video mode is currently not sensor limited but depends more on the image processing and scaling side. The colours are anything but wacky on the GH2 and it has a very highly gradable image with the hack because so much data is maintained with the high bitrates. True the sensor does not do colour like a Canon DSLR. But the difference is more subtle than you give it credit for. As for the electronic look this is your fault not the camera's. Shoot better I suggest  :P
[/quote]

GH2 does produce wacky consumer grade colours and prone to blown out and lacked DR compare to the 5D2. I showed some samples of the video to my friend who is a indie filmmaker, he wasnt thrilled by the sunny outdoor daylight shots but liked the night time ones. The 5D2 he likes the daylight outdoor from that and I agree.

If GH2 can improve on the DR, highlight roll off, wacky consumer colours and electronic look I will always look for answers in a dSLR.

[quote author=Gabe link=topic=434.msg2723#msg2723 date=1332300479]
Jim Jannard is right.  Canon is playing games.  They've had 3.5 to resolve their resolution issue and they have failed to do it with the Mark III.  All to protect their C300.  Meanwhile Panasonic has been able to produce true 1080p on the GH2 for almost a year and a half now.  Canon is guilty of false advertising if they call this a Full HD camera.

On top of it Canon announces the C300 and a forthcoming 4K DSLR at the same time.  If this 4K DSLR were to shoot true 4K, why would anyone buy the C300 that only shoots 1080P?  Is this going to be a DSLR that shoots true 4K and renders the C300 obsolete or is it going to be a DSLR that shoots fake 4K resolution that doesn't compete with the C300?  This is ridiculous marketing games.

Nikon also somehow hasn't figured out true 1080 resolution, but at least the 8-bit uncompressed HDMI is competitive and may force Canon's hand in future camera bodies.

I'm betting my money on the GH3.  Photokina can't come soon enough.
[/quote]

Dpreview has just released D800 samples and it is about 1/3 stop worse in ISO performance than the 5DMk2 and not a lot better in resolving details. This represent a huge disappointment for D800 compared to a 3.5 years old sensor. We now know that Nikon's clean HDMI is a gimmick and the video quality is nothing special. Perhaps this has attributed to the price drop by Amazon UK even before it hit the shelves.
To me the D800 is just a 5D2 IQ wise with the same 4 fps but with a better 41pts AF and similar video.

Is D4/D800 clean HDMI out a revolution for video dSLRs or an epic failure?

[quote author=Sara link=topic=405.msg2663#msg2663 date=1332171658]
Nice.  That's a pretty good guess Simco123.  You might be right.  :)  The 1DX doesn't really fit the needs of landscape or commercial photographers despite its price.
[/quote]

A 39mp camera would be perfect for 4x4 scaling for a 4k video, that will be Canon's studio camera.

[quote author=Sara link=topic=405.msg2654#msg2654 date=1332146421]
[quote author=Simco123 link=topic=405.msg2653#msg2653 date=1332140131]
I will waite for NAB next month to see if the Canon 4k comes out and what the price is. If nothing comes out or price too high I will go with the 5DIII.
[/quote]

The Canon 4k DSLR will be expensive I think.

Think about it, it will have a new sensor and processor (even the C300 recycles parts from one of Canons camcorders) and will have image quality above the 5D and 1DX right?  Well those are $3500 and $6000 cameras.  With the C300 priced at $16,000 it would have to be priced under it (and with a few less features - skimp on audio perhaps).

If it was $10,000ish would you be interested?  I mean it can't be at the same price as the 5DMK3 - it would make that camera useless.  Also remember that the Sony F3 (a monster if you have a good external recorder) now comes with S-log free for $13,999.
[/quote]

Since the Canon 1DX is around $6.7k I believe the dSLR 4k will be less because it will not be more expensive than their flagship otherwise the 4k dSLR will be the flagship. Probably somewhere between the 5DIII and 1DX without the bells and whistle of the 1DX stills. I believe down scaling and video quality will not be that much better than 5DIII, might see further improvement in rolling shutter and maybe higher All I bitrates, big MP and slow fps for stills, in another word Canon's version of D800 plus 4k video at $4-$5k. I believe consumer 4k will be just around the corner and no longer a fad to charge such a high premium in 6 months time.

I will waite for NAB next month to see if the Canon 4k comes out and what the price is. If nothing comes out or price too high I will go with the 5DIII. Even with the hack I am not a huge fan of GH2 for dayight outdoor stuff due to DR and wacky consumer colours and electronic look. The 5D2 had very nice DR and roll off.

About D4/D800 is the clean HDMI a 720p, 1080i or 1080p?