u4ia24

2 hours ago, Gregormannschaft said:

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I judge picture profiles by the results and not tests. Don't get me wrong, these can be very useful and it's great to know that we should all be shooting on Cine1, but the best results I have seen have been with SLOG2 and Cine4 – when I film, the best, most natural results that I've achieved, have also been with these two profiles. This, for instance, is one of the strongest A7SII videos I've seen, and it was shot using the Cine 4 and SLOG3.cine gamma combo.

Awesome video! So just the built in PP8 with SLOG3.cine and Cine4 gamma? No EOSHD Pro Color settings?

40 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

There is just as much DR in Cine 2 as Cine 1.All that happens if you use Cine1 is that there is another stop of DR above the Zebra clipping point so if you use cine 2 you can use ETTR more effectivley and maximise your DR.

Do you mind going into more details on how to ETTR more effectively using Cine2? Is that by setting the Zebra to a custom value? By the way what value do you set the Zebras when using the default EOSHD Pro Color settings?

A different question, does Cine1 and Cine2 have differences in color or do they just affect gamma and can be switched out if I wish?

What do you think about a comment made by Paul Leeming regarding Gamma and Color Modes? Are the Gamma modes interchangeable in EOSHD Pro Color?
 

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Cine1 is a 109% IRE profile (higher dynamic highlight range recorded) with a more neutral curve from highlights to shadows (great for shooting ETTR and grading in post).

Cine2 is similar to Cine1 but with only 100% IRE available.

Cine3 has a more contrasty pre-curve applied with unequal highlight and shadow tonality. It is also 109% IRE.

Cine4 is like Cine3, but again with only 100% IRE available.

Of the four, Cine1 presents the most neutral starting point, with the most dynamic range capture to the 8bit 4:2:0 file format. Sony provides all this information in their documentation, for those who care to dig through it.

Regarding Color profiles, of all of them (and I tested), Pro color gives the closest match to Rec709 (which is ironic given there's an ITU709 profile, but there you go).

S.Gamut (and cine etc) versions are not optimised for 8bit 4:2:0 file formats and have significantly less tonality in that format than Pro color. In a 10bit or 12bit recording format they will provide a more graduated color palette, but for these 8bit 4:2:0 cameras it is a waste of time and actually gives you a worse starting point than Pro color.

The goal at recording time should be to record the best spread of highlight to shadow information in a neutral curve profile, with the color as close to Rec709 as possible, because that gives you the least amount of pushing/pulling in post needed to achieve 1. correct, accurate Rec709 colors, and 2. the most grading latitude possible before the 8bit 4:2:0 image breaks down (simply due to the limits of that format).

Cine4 with S.Gamut3 et al is pretty much the polar opposite of that theory. Why it ever gained widespread traction in the community, I do not know. I can only surmise that none of the early 'influencers' did the requisite testing to figure out what I figured out (and which you can test for yourself), or they didn't understand the fundamental limitations of the system they were recording to.

From there, I suppose most people simply parroted the influencers and it grew from there, with the ever present struggle and complaints about getting good skintones from Sony cameras, murky low saturation greys, etc etc.