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35 minutes ago, sandro said:

That's what I meant. Why are mirrorelss cameras bad at autofocus?

Speculation: Hm..could it be too much information perhaps compared to the processing power and how the autofocus is programmed? DSLR maybe are not as good at really really exact sensorplane autofocus, but quick enough, while mirrorless are good at slower but more exact autofocus.

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4 hours ago, Teheimar said:

 

As Mars said it depends on intended use.

I am testing the NX1 at the moment with the 30 mm f/2.0 pancake.

@Andrew Reid: Are the S zooms faster in focusing?

 

Otherwise I'd say that I so far like the performance in the ISO 1600-3200 range for stills photography. The range for post processing of the raw files is quite huge, but so far I've only tested them with in Camera Raw without the Samsung to DNG converter, which I understand is recommended.  However over 1600-3200 I'm finding the noise (comings from Nikon "noise" character) seems to behave a bit differently depending on light.

Generally speaking I'd say so far (since I have NOT tested teh NX1 with the S or the faster lenses and teh 30 mm was a cheap solution) that for tracking and really quick situations I've found the results from Nikon 1 V1 and kit-zooms systems very good. Not talking here about image quality, bokeh, DR but focus, geometry and getting the shot. All those more artistic values and image quality tend to disappear over ISO 400 sort of. It being totally silent and having 10 FPS (V3 has 20 FPS) JPEG + RAW and a really deep buffer helps of course. The problem there is of course that you need some practice to get used to not seing a "live" image but a stack of images. Don't know about tracking on the NX1 yet. With the 30mm it seems kind of so so. I miss not having a centre "lock & track" function.

Otherwise being a long term (for me ) Nikon user the 1/2/3/4Ds cameras and the 1 system cameras seem to be on par in the field, but the big top-of-the line cameras are faster with the OVF so far in use if you are not used to a EVF. The NX1 seems to have a quicker EVF then the Nikon V1 which is nice.

@sandro I'm not sure about it, but I'd say that for telework of stills I'd use today a V3 + Nikon 1 70-300 (effective 35 mm equivalent 2.7x that) and tracking. IF the light is good and you don't care about top-notch image quality*. That is is you are really on a budget. I myself will be testing the NX1 with a Sony 70-300 SSM via adapter to see how it works out, but I'm into stills photography mainly.

* Coming more from the "press-photo" branch sort of sometimes image quality isn't the top priority but to get a pictures in a tricky situation at all is. Sorry it that's kind of like swearing in the church.

30mm: slowest focusing lens for nx1

S lenses and 45mm: fastest

Difference: 1000% :-P 

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2 hours ago, sandro said:

That's what I meant. Why are mirrorelss cameras bad at autofocus?

Well, one of the biggest reasons DSLRs have a mirror is so that it can direct light to a dedicated phase detection system. It's been done for years and much perfected over time, with a good track record of nailing focus reliably for shooting stills.

Here enters the first mirrorless systems... no mirror, means we have to find an on-sensor solution and started implementing contrast detection... building a reputation that mirrorless are slow and inaccurate. Fast forward a few years and we have on-sensor phase detection (on some cameras), but still limited in use and not yet perfected, so still hit or miss sometimes (although DSLRs are now starting to use liveview functionality more and are starting to have the same issues when it comes down to that). Another few years later and we have manufacturers tweaking away. Sony for example put a lot of effort in upping the game of on-sensor phase detection and Panasonic for example comes up with tweaks for contrast detection by using 'depth from defocus'. But by now there's quite the stain on the trackrecord of mirrorless and AF, whereas DSLRs are known for reliable results... Canon, surprisingly, hasn't been sitting still and develops dual pixel AF, which even performs well with continuous AF during video recording. So, this is the time mirrorless manufacturers should really be starting to get the upperhand. Especially for video, where you'd have to use on-sensor AF detection anyways. I think with the A6300 Sony might found a way to nicely do it! So we don't have to hear anymore how for reliable autofocus you'd have to pick up a DSLR.

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Whatever indeed. But to be honest, eh, not really? Just two types of photography. With deep depth of field you focus on subjects which have a planable and trackable location pretty far away from you. And the focus plane is depth. So, unless a jet is flying at you full frontal, which I doubt, you're probably looking at the display from a side, making the jet pass in front of you from right to left, left to right, up to down or down to up... within roughly the same plane of depth from you (which also goes for your excellent shot examples). If you were standing on the deck of a carrier taking up close shots of landing jets coming towards you at high velocity and still manage to keep every fired shot in focus, then applause to you, sir! My sincerest respect.

I'd like to see you take portrait type pictures of a playing dog in manual focus... some types of photography you really benefit from good autofocus. Sure you could practise manual focusing like you could practise flying mech stabilizers. But...

 

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5 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Yeah, there's a difference between deep depth of field and focusing somewhere where you expect the focus to be without any real immediacy and plenty oppertunity to it. But exactly, if you're capturing slalom skiers that go super fast and don't stay roughly in the same spot from your position and you don't know exactly if they're going to go wide, or take it tight... or fall... you need speed, so wide open at f/2.8 or f/4, nice subject isolation because of it and the combination with a tele lens too. But with all that going on, it's already tricky enough to get the skier in the frame should you be at max zoom for an epic shot, but then to also focus on the fly... you gotta be damn skilled for such a thing! And that is why, children, to this day, we still tell stories about DSLRs and how great they are. Because up to this point, mirrorless has kinda been iffy when it comes down to autofocus. Curious to see if the Sony A6300 really works that well, atleast it looks super impressive! To bad there's no touch-AF, or touchscreen at all on it for that matter.

Except that 99.9% of shots don't require super fast tracking autofocus (personally, I have never used tracking, ever). Then you are just left with the disadvantages of DSLRs.

I'm not sure why people opt for being disadvantaged 99.9% of the time just so they can get those 0.1% shots :).

If I was shooting something like a slalom skier I would already know which gates I was going to shoot, and have the camera pointed there properly focused BEFORE they reach it.

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FWIW - until Feb 20, Samsung has reduced the price of the NX1 to $1,099 USD ($400 off), like they did in December (at their web site, Amazon, B&H, etc).

$1,299.99 with Power Zoom lens. Tempting...

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On February 5, 2016 at 0:10 PM, tugela said:

Except that 99.9% of shots don't require super fast tracking autofocus (personally, I have never used tracking, ever). Then you are just left with the disadvantages of DSLRs.

I'm not sure why people opt for being disadvantaged 99.9% of the time just so they can get those 0.1% shots :).

If I was shooting something like a slalom skier I would already know which gates I was going to shoot, and have the camera pointed there properly focused BEFORE they reach it.

Exactly and at that point all you have to do is burst fire ! Like I said before people have to practice their technique but what do I know

On February 5, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Cinegain said:

Whatever indeed. But to be honest, eh, not really? Just two types of photography. With deep depth of field you focus on subjects which have a planable and trackable location pretty far away from you. And the focus plane is depth. So, unless a jet is flying at you full frontal, which I doubt, you're probably looking at the display from a side, making the jet pass in front of you from right to left, left to right, up to down or down to up... within roughly the same plane of depth from you (which also goes for your excellent shot examples). If you were standing on the deck of a carrier taking up close shots of landing jets coming towards you at high velocity and still manage to keep every fired shot in focus, then applause to you, sir! My sincerest respect.

I'd like to see you take portrait type pictures of a playing dog in manual focus... some types of photography you really benefit from good autofocus. Sure you could practise manual focusing like you could practise flying mech stabilizers. But...

 

This is where burst fire comes into play. With 15 frames per second there is no way at least 5 out of the 15 photos at a high shutter speed is out of focus. I've been nailing focus of children playing at a bday party and infantry doing breaching drills all thanks to burst fire and locking focus at the estimated distance the subject will enter. Maybe I am just lucky or I am so used to shooting manual that I do not feel like I am missing much with autofocus

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Weird thing... the 18-200 lens was unavailabe everywhere at European Amazons... Italy even deleted the page... Now they're coming back in stock on feb 20th. Germany is selling it for €900! They're crazy. Why would they restock lenses in EU?

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Someone earlier in the thread posted a link to Samsungparts.com to get super discounted lenses and I took a gamble and ordered the 16-50s and the 50-150s. It cost total after tax and shipping $1500, I ordered on Jan 20 and received them yesterday both in perfect condition. Just thought I'd mention it if anyone is considering getting an nx1 body on a sale or something. The links and part numbers are on dpreview in the Samsung forum or earlier in this thread. 

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Through tomorrow (Feb 20), Samsung is offering $400 off the NX1 body. I’ve been considering this for a while now, but remain hesitant given that Samsung has apparently stopped updating its ILCs.

 

This would be my first interchangeable-lens digital camera. (I learned a little about still photography on a Minolta XG-1 many years ago, but since then have only owned point-and-shoot cameras.)

 

I’d like to be able to make as-close-as-possible-to-professional quality videos of myself playing piano for promotional purposes, in the spirit of the fixed-camera shots in the first 20 seconds of this. (I can already make pro-quality audio recordings at home.)

 

My questions for you experts are:

 

1. Of the several cameras that have been released and/or announced the past few weeks (from Sony, Olympus, Pentax, Nikon, Canon) in the same general price range as the NX1, are there any that approach the NX1 specs and features, at least on paper? My impression is the answer is no, but I'm a newbie.

 

2. If the NX line is completely discontinued, what do you think will happen to the prices of NX lenses? Will they go up because of limited supply, or down because demand will potentially decrease? (I realize I can use other lenses with a “dumb” adaptor, so I’ll still have options.)

 

3. If you have any other thoughts or recommendations regarding buying (or avoiding) an NX1 at this stage of the game, I’d love to hear them.

 

Thanks!

 

Bob

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31 minutes ago, Bobk said:

1. Of the several cameras that have been released and/or announced the past few weeks (from Sony, Olympus, Pentax, Nikon, Canon) in the same general price range as the NX1, are there any that approach the NX1 specs and features, at least on paper? My impression is the answer is no, but I'm a newbie.

I would seriously take a look at the Sony A6300. The downsampled 4K will be great, AF looks amazing and it comes in a small package. Plus it gives you the ability to use almost any lens (take a look at the Sigma 50-100 f/1.8 that hasn't been officially announced yet). The only real issue is different ergonomics than the NX1 and that is a personal thing.  

31 minutes ago, Bobk said:

2. If the NX line is completely discontinued, what do you think will happen to the prices of NX lenses? Will they go up because of limited supply, or down because demand will potentially decrease? (I realize I can use other lenses with a “dumb” adaptor, so I’ll still have options.)

Drop like a rock. NX mount is the only place they can be used and as it seems nobody will make an NX camera again. So when the camera goes bad, you will have a useless piece of glass. 

31 minutes ago, Bobk said:

3. If you have any other thoughts or recommendations regarding buying (or avoiding) an NX1 at this stage of the game, I’d love to hear them.

Again, as mentioned in the previous point lenses are the big caveat here. If you go with adapted lenses such as Nikon AI/s then it might be alright but then you don't really take advantage of the resolution that NX1 has to offer. Personally the NX1 has to be coupled with the 16-50mm f/2-2.8 lens, and unless you don't care about the resale value then it is still a lot of money to waste when there are alternatives. 

 

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55 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

I would seriously take a look at the Sony A6300. The downsampled 4K will be great, AF looks amazing and it comes in a small package. Plus it gives you the ability to use almost any lens (take a look at the Sigma 50-100 f/1.8 that hasn't been officially announced yet). The only real issue is different ergonomics than the NX1 and that is a personal thing.  

Drop like a rock. NX mount is the only place they can be used and as it seems nobody will make an NX camera again. So when the camera goes bad, you will have a useless piece of glass. 

Again, as mentioned in the previous point lenses are the big caveat here. If you go with adapted lenses such as Nikon AI/s then it might be alright but then you don't really take advantage of the resolution that NX1 has to offer. Personally the NX1 has to be coupled with the 16-50mm f/2-2.8 lens, and unless you don't care about the resale value then it is still a lot of money to waste when there are alternatives. 

 

Thanks, Don. Will check it out.

As for lens price, I wasn't thinking about resale, but rather about how much I'd have to spend to pick up additional lenses later on.

Quote

If you go with adapted lenses such as Nikon AI/s then it might be alright but then you don't really take advantage of the resolution that NX1 has to offer.

Can you explain this, please? (I'm a newb.)

Re: the 16-50 f/2-2.8, FWIW, those are available as "replacement parts" for considerably less than retail, so deals can be found.

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50 minutes ago, Bobk said:

Thanks, Don. Will check it out.

As for lens price, I wasn't thinking about resale, but rather about how much I'd have to spend to pick up additional lenses later on.

Can you explain this, please? (I'm a newb.)

Re: the 16-50 f/2-2.8, FWIW, those are available as "replacement parts" for considerably less than retail, so deals can be found.

While old manual nikon lenses are great, they are not as good as the 16-50 f/2-2.8. So you will not get that extra crispness that NX1 has to offer. 

If the you can find the kit cheap enough then it might be worth your money, but I would at least wait for the first A6300 reviews to come about before committing. The E-mount gives you vastly more choices for lenses, can be used with speedboosters that give your more light and close to the FF look plus you can use AF with most Canon lenses. 

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