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jacoblewis

Is Samsung shutting down their camera business?

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Rumor had it they'd release it 2015... and there were already rumors in 2014 that the Canon M line will get a prosumer camera. Just as there's always rumors about Nikon releasing a mirrorless camera. I think actually this year we could see something along those lines but then I remember the teething problems that other mirrorless systems had in their earliest models so I'm not sure if the first release will be more than a fancy beta test on customer's cost.

I'm also curious though. There's still so much room for improvement in the mirrorless world, the two big fishes entering can't hurt the progress. It's a pity Samsung left, they've shown so much creativity and technical prowess with the NX1 and NX500. Nikon strongly voices that they did not acquire any Samsung tech but it would really be a waste if that goes down the drain to only be used in mobile phones, fridges, VR/action cameras, etc.

Not if they release an updated NX1 in a Nikon body and mount. They would have the advantage of all the feedback from the NX1 as well as access to 2016 processors. A Nikon mirrorless using Samsung's NX tech will literally blow the competition out of the water decisively. There would be no contest, it would win.

 

And I'm not sure I agree about the 5D with ML Raw. 14 bit raw on a full frame, I don't see any camera from the big companies doing that anytime soon. 

 

I suspect that ML hacked 5Ds are not getting a whole lot of new users and the number of old users is diminishing. There are simply too many other options around.

with you on that one ! NEVER will I buy another Samsung product. Thank God I never invested in their lenses. Honestly looking forward to see what Panasonic does next. I think we all were thinking that Samsung was taking a page out of Panasonic's book and trying to make the camera game a little more competitive again with class leading features. Sony is cool put to me they are overhyped and overpriced. They practice "spec warfare" on paper their cameras are nuts but put the shit out in the field and you are like wtf (imo). My t3i with Magic Lantern was an incredible tool to me and I am hoping the 5d3 RAW can give me that feeling again especially with the innovations visioncolor has brought to Canon users. An NX1 for personal projects and 5D3 for paid projects is my ideal setup. Im considering an a7sii but ehhhh idk about Sony.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm POed that they left the market like that, but on the other hand they did give me my dream camera at a price that I could afford. So from that point of view, provided it doesn't go belly up, I'll be a happy camper for the next 3-4 years.

In 2014 when it was announced there was no competition, when I bought mine in 2015 there was no competition, and even now it is still looking like there will be no competition in 2016 either. Granted, the a7RII is a nice camera, but it is getting a bit up there in price. So when I look at what I have versus what I could have had, I have no regrets.

When I bought my NX1 it was the first camera I have bought since digital came about that did not disappoint me majorly in some way. And I think that says a lot.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Not if they release an updated NX1 in a Nikon body and mount. They would have the advantage of all the feedback from the NX1 as well as access to 2016 processors. A Nikon mirrorless using Samsung's NX tech will literally blow the competition out of the water decisively. There would be no contest, it would win.

I suspect that ML hacked 5Ds are not getting a whole lot of new users and the number of old users is diminishing. There are simply too many other options around.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm POed that they left the market like that, but on the other hand they did give me my dream camera at a price that I could afford. So from that point of view, provided it doesn't go belly up, I'll be a happy camper for the next 3-4 years.

In 2014 when it was announced there was no competition, when I bought mine in 2015 there was no competition, and even now it is still looking like there will be no competition in 2016 either. Granted, the a7RII is a nice camera, but it is getting a bit up there in price. So when I look at what I have versus what I could have had, I have no regrets.

When I bought my NX1 it was the first camera I have bought since digital came about that did not disappoint me majorly in some way. And I think that says a lot.

If Nikon have bougth the mount as well, wouldn't that mean they will have to abandon the 1 mount? Having 3 mounts to maintain is kind of huge. Canon has 2 EF and M, Sony has 2 F(E) and A, and the A-mount isn't getting alot of attention. Olympus and Panasonic have 1 mount only, right?

I have a Nikon v1 camera and the kit lenses as well as a flash. I usually disagree about the Nikon 1 mount being bad. It's good for what it is, small, quiet, really fast and especially for getting long reach. BUT, having said that I think Nikon marketed it mostly to the "point & shoot crowd", partly to women and amateurs, and didn't expect it to cannibalize - my guess - telephoto sales (like V1/2/3 body + FT-1 adapter + TC-20E 2x + insert long telelens/zoom here = take pictures of flies 2 km away and save $$$$ with cheaper lens.) Having said that: The V1 is a bit of a prototype and the 1 inch sensor doesn't have what one would get with bigger sensor. And Nikon has a way of crippling the cameras, which is apparent with V2 and V3.

I checked with the local Samsung support about the NX1 here in Sweden.

Basically it seems like this (my interpretation):

1. It seems Samsung more or less relied on the resellers doing the big marketing work with actually talking and demonstrating to buyers the NX1. I'm not sure how it's in other countries, but I have gotten the impression that in Sweden it might not have worked at all. I have not met any staff in a photo/video store that has really known the NX system. Usually you are always referred to in a more serious physical store to someone who actually has tested or used  the camera and can say something about it. So for Canon, Nikon and Sony it's really not a problem. Olympus/Panasonic a little harder. Pentax - hard. Samsung - nonexistent during last 2 years (have helped friends buy cameras so usually Pentax and Samsung have got struck because store reps have not had anything to say). I'd say that if so - then it was a mistake on Samsungs part. It might explain why I have not seen anyone in the field here with a NX1. Selling smartphones vs selling cameras is quiet different. The camera market here seems more traditional, and while Sony A7xx series is really being pushed and hyped here as well, it probably would not have been like that if not focus peaking and the lens adapting trend (Metabones). So Samsung should have marketed it more aggressively and perhaps even let out a couple of NX1/NX500 to people just to use and market it, held seminaries to store personnel and so on so people would actually see the NX in the street, as with their phones. It has taken a while for Fuji to build up it's fan base.

2. It seems that as long as there are parts, repairs will probably be doable for the next year or so. Quite unclear answer.

3. It seems the apps (Samsung Camera manager) is so far staying. And I was told that it's quite popular is well.

4. Firmware updates.. no idea.. I told the support person it was VERY appreciated in any case that they have made all these FW-updates and that it set them apart from the rest of the market.

 

Since this thread is about the NX1 and considering the situation I'll write this here are well. If it's the wrong place then I apologize.

I'm waiting for a store to get it's hands on a NX1 demo-kit that I can try in the store. I'm thinking of buying one. Have tested it very briefly once. I have come up with a couple of decision criterias. On paper the NX1 seems like a really good camera and today a good enough camera for me. I'm more a still image photographer, but want to try video (so that's learning). (My priority is 1. NX1 2.Sony A77ii or Nikon V3). Generally I'm upgrading from a Nikon D2Xs - which is by todays standards a dinosaur. I was recommended by my usual computer hardware forum to EOSHD and a big part of this has to do both me trying to find real world use info about the NX1 and a forum post I wrote a couple of years ago about future camera features (photo.net). The NX1 feels like a step in that direction.

I'll be comparing the NX1 + 16-50 S lens in parallell to the Sony A77ii + 16-50SSM.

Comparison details:

Main thing of course: Get along with the camera.

1. acquisition time/speed in high/low-light

2. Tracking in different light (also for video)

3. Is tracking better in continuous if you lower the fps to 8-10?

4. How is the EVF for low light and how is the lag? (difference between still image/video)

5. How is the blackout in AF-S and AF-C?

6. Ergonomics, balance and Menu system - is it fast and easy to navigate.

7. Color settings and databanks. Possible to save your own tweaks.

8. Switch on/off noise reduction

9. Use with gloves (buttons. grip etc).

10. Flash???? Alternatives.

11. Possible to record video with a "color filter" or tweaks on it"?

12. Interconnect possibilities and their design in the menu (to smartphone etc).

As you see, I am more geared towards speed then highest possible tech quality and prioritize to get stuff done in the camera instead of spending to much time in front of the computer (unless it's a RAW image I like). Therefore the A7xx series seems really unsuited. And the A7ii starts too slowly with a Zeiss 35 lens. So if anyone has some comments, recommendations or experiences to share I'd be very thankful.

And then we have the prices.

I don't really see how the stores here will be able to sell the NX1 and lenses for usual prices now that the batteries have stopped being produced. Ca €1900 for the small package and ca €3000 for the big package (one or two S lenses) seems WAY overprice.

Sorry for the long post.

Edit: ironed out some spelling and grammar mistakes.

 

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If Nikon have bougth the mount as well, wouldn't that mean they will have to abandon the 1 mount? Having 3 mounts to maintain is kind of huge. Canon has 2 EF and M, Sony has 2 F(E) and A, and the A-mount isn't getting alot of attention. Olympus and Panasonic have 1 mount only, right?

 

Unlikely that they would use the mount since they have their own. I think they would want people to buy their glass, not someone else's. They could use the rest of the systems in the camera though. Potentially an updated processor with the same sensor, in a new body with a new mount. There are parts of the lens IP that could be incorporated as well, such as the iFn button and DMF function. The original NX lenses would become obsolete in that case, unless they could be adapted to the Nikon mount system in some way.

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I am still considering getting one. If I can get one cheap.....and use my rokinon/canon lenses with an adapter. The images are still great. I know there won't be any new updates at this point, but if the price is right, it can still be a great tool. I miss shooting the panasonic gh series, but I hated the stills in that camera. If I find one for under $1000 with accessories....I might just bite the bullet.

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Adorama shows the 85mm NX lens as unavailable; listing other stuff as "closeout" but no closeout pricing… yet.

I seriously doubt Nikon will abandon their mount after all these decades… I'm pretty doubtful they're doing anything with Samsung as well. 

Just tried some 1960's FL lenses in the NX1… no tests yet, but through the VF… very very pretty. Need a project to shoot completely with FL, music video or something.

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Adorama shows the 85mm NX lens as unavailable; listing other stuff as "closeout" but no closeout pricing… yet.

I seriously doubt Nikon will abandon their mount after all these decades… I'm pretty doubtful they're doing anything with Samsung as well. 

Just tried some 1960's FL lenses in the NX1… no tests yet, but through the VF… very very pretty. Need a project to shoot completely with FL, music video or something.

Looking at the D5/500, I would say that Nikon really NEED Samsung's stuff right now, lol. If they don't get it I think they will be in serious trouble going into the future. Their current cameras are really from a previous era, and that will not serve them well trying to compete with all the new tech coming from other companies going forward.

Think about it. Presumably they expect the D5/500 to be their flagships for at least the next two years and probably longer. But what will the likes of Sony and Panasonic have by then? Or even Canon for that matter. Management at Nikon should be worried right now.

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Nikon sell mainly to still shooters... 3.5million ISO seems fairly future proof, as does the AF, the DR and just about every other checkbox

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Nikon sell mainly to still shooters... 3.5million ISO seems fairly future proof, as does the AF, the DR and just about every other checkbox

It is just a number. The a7SII outperforms it in low light.

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Well sure there are many people being angry about Samsung because they all see Samsung as a company that doesn't value their customers. Actually many Galaxy users are already angry about Samsung. However still the NX1 is an amazing camera.

I really hope the EOS M4 will have decent video capability, so that I can buy some ZM lens for a very small yet amazing video camera. In fact Leica just released their new 28 and 35 M lenses, some people love shooting video with M lenses.

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Well sure there are many people being angry about Samsung because they all see Samsung as a company that doesn't value their customers. Actually many Galaxy users are already angry about Samsung. However still the NX1 is an amazing camera.

I really hope the EOS M4 will have decent video capability, so that I can buy some ZM lens for a very small yet amazing video camera. In fact Leica just released their new 28 and 35 M lenses, some people love shooting video with M lenses.

I wouldn't pay for Leica glass to adapt it to an Aps-C camera like the EOS M. Leica glass is not designed for the relatively thick sensor stack in most mirrorless cameras so you would invest 2000€ or more for a lens that will perform less than perfect on your consumer mirrorless and even might get outperformed by a 100€ vintage SLR lens due to the retrofocus design which helps with light angles. 

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Adorama shows the 85mm NX lens as unavailable; listing other stuff as "closeout" but no closeout pricing… yet.

I seriously doubt Nikon will abandon their mount after all these decades… I'm pretty doubtful they're doing anything with Samsung as well. 

Just tried some 1960's FL lenses in the NX1… no tests yet, but through the VF… very very pretty. Need a project to shoot completely with FL, music video or something.

I have a small set of FL lenses... They're surprisingly nice. The 35mm f3.5, is a newer design with rubber grip, but seriously a great lens. 

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I wouldn't pay for Leica glass to adapt it to an Aps-C camera like the EOS M. Leica glass is not designed for the relatively thick sensor stack in most mirrorless cameras so you would invest 2000€ or more for a lens that will perform less than perfect on your consumer mirrorless and even might get outperformed by a 100€ vintage SLR lens due to the retrofocus design which helps with light angles. 

Indeed, these M lenses suffer from the thick sensor stack and has worse performance at the edge. However from the footages I've seen the edge performance is still quite good, slightly better or on par with M43 with speedbooster. But the compact lens with the camera combo is very attractive, I think that's why some people, including me, would like to have them. Really a trade off between a super compact system and image quality and handlling (very short focus throw). Some my friends went for an A7S + Loxia combo instead, which I think is a very nice solution.

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haha yea.... I guess Nikon send out early prototypes to internet loud mouths

Pictures taken in moonlight are available in early reviews. You can compare that against comparable pictures taken by the a7SII at equivalent exposures, and the a7SII is considerably better.

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Pictures taken in moonlight are available in early reviews. You can compare that against comparable pictures taken by the a7SII at equivalent exposures, and the a7SII is considerably better.

nah I don't think thats a good way to test. That's more of a hunch than a test. What you're saying sounds good in theory but totally lacks validity until the d5 gets released for review and/or you acquire one yourself. Im happy to say the people in this forum TEST before they jump to conclusions. Let's not change that now.

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Patiently waiting for an official announcement from Samsung.

I think there will be no announcement. As kidzrevil said... annoucemenet that Sasmung ends with camera business would affect their stocks. So they will silently go away and still keep saying that they are not quitting...

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