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jacoblewis

Is Samsung shutting down their camera business?

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I got the NX500 with kit lens online, + 30mm lens,  with a little difficulty.  I believe that one of the main reasons the cameras have not sold so well was the strategic decision to go exclusively with hevc for both cameras.

People in this community can probably live with the extra work/steps, but hevc with the NX500 was a big mistake, h264 should have been used on the NX500.

The NX500 has no viewfinder, a large 4K crop, sure, but otherwise it is all in all a great camera, fab. picture and 4K in a lightweight and attractive body.  At the lower prices it's now going for its a bargain, if you can live with its limitations.  The screen alone has to be one of the very best out there.  Photo quality with the kit lens is superb!

 

Not really. For regular people H.265 has attractions, not the least being that it is the high quality format used for USB input into Samsung 2015 TV sets. H.264 is limited to 40mbps, while H.265 caps out at 80mbps. Playback of shot clips from a USB stick can't be done for any camera other than the NX1 as a result. I can download my days clips onto a USB stick or hardrive and browse through them on my TV, and immediately see what looks good and what doesn't on the actual viewing device I will be using. No other camera on the market allows me to do that.

It was one of the factors that influenced my buying decision actually. Transcoding for editing isn't an issue IMO, as much as people whine about it.

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I don't really have problems with H.265 transcoding. Using RockyMountain it's just a breeze, and the H.265 support will eventually be there in a short time.

The only thing that bugs me is no magnification during video preview mode. What I'm doing now is focus in photo mode then go into video standby, but still only center magnification is not very handy. Other than that everything seems ok to me.

Using nikon/zeiss lens on NX1 is great. That's exactly what I'm doing, I like my Distagon 25 on NX1, and I'm struggling whether I should buy a Distagon 35 F1.4 or F2 for it.

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Think you're grasping at straws here.  Taken in its entirety, it seems pretty clear that Samsung is done with the NX series. They maybe back with something different (perhaps new mobile sensors) but NX line is finished.  

damn you got all that from an email ? Lol these are companies with a tremendous budget and r&d you are right they could scrap the NX line. Shit SHARP & VIZIO , could come out with a camera next and I am all for it cause competition keeps people on their toes and that means better tech for the consumers

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damn you got all that from an email ? Lol these are companies with a tremendous budget and r&d you are right they could scrap the NX line. Shit SHARP & VIZIO , could come out with a camera next and I am all for it cause competition keeps people on their toes and that means better tech for the consumers

I didn't get all that from a single email.  That's why I said,  "taken in its entirety"... in other words... after reading all the post and chatter that is currently circulating regarding this matter. I just don't see how so many could be wrong. 

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For the record I do use Nikon, Tokina and other manuals on my NX1. I still have the 16-50mm from Samsung that works pretty well though. I must say I think it's the best kit lens I had for image quality.

On the tiny pancakes it's an issue as the lenses lack an AF/MF switch.

On the S lenses they have the switch so you can permanently keep them in MF mode in both stills live view and movie standby / recording. Problem solved.

Another trick is to let the focus take care of itself then in movie mode hit the AEL button providing AFL is assigned, that will lock focus during the shot. Update to V1.40 as not sure if this worked beforehand. You might also try masking off a pin to disable AF. I've not tried this, it might stop comms with the lens altogether.

But yeah for the pancakes the situation isn't ideal and should have been fixed.

Slap a Nikon on there instead.

I must say I'm tempted to get the 16-50 S lens if the price drops significantly. The only thing that bothers me is that once the NX1 is "gone" for me the lens will become useless being all digital :(  

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Not really. For regular people H.265 has attractions, not the least being that it is the high quality format used for USB input into Samsung 2015 TV sets. H.264 is limited to 40mbps, while H.265 caps out at 80mbps. Playback of shot clips from a USB stick can't be done for any camera other than the NX1 as a result. I can download my days clips onto a USB stick or hardrive and browse through them on my TV, and immediately see what looks good and what doesn't on the actual viewing device I will be using. No other camera on the market allows me to do that.

It was one of the factors that influenced my buying decision actually. Transcoding for editing isn't an issue IMO, as much as people whine about it.

Great.  So in addition to a $1,200 camera you need to get a $1,300 lens and a $1,000 TV.  Wonder why that strategy wasn't a resounding success right out the gates.  It's a niche camera man.  I say that as a happy owner of a BMPCC.  The camera field is crowded.  You can't be a Johnny-come-lately to the game and burst onto the scene with $1,300 lenses and a codec few people are equipped to handle.  And no the average consumer doesn't know anything about transcoding.

Companies like Samsung and Sony on the other hand are developing silicon anyway for unrelated technologies, such as cell phones, computers, televisions, game stations etc etc. So their development costs in the areas where cameras see big improvements are largely leveraged by other industries.

Yeah... I've never used the buggy smart tv interface on my Samsung TV and thought to myself, gee it would be great if these guys made a camera based off this.

You are probably partially right though.  It is obvious Samsung didn't lose too much money developing their advertising and distribution channels.  They saved so much money most consumers don't even know they make an interchangeable lens camera.

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did the emails say only the nx1? wouldn't the nx500 have been much more likely to actually be discontinued? can't imagine sales for that to have been much more than the nx1. would that help the theory that this is all nx1 getting a replacement, and the nx500 isn't being "discontinued" because it's not getting a replacement as soon? just a thought.. though clearly this whole thing confuses me.

IF somehow this all meant the nx1 would end up super cheap soon, I'm not even mad. The camera can obviously hold its own for years (probably eternity for me) without any new updates or successors. though it would have been nice if they discontinued it right after new firmware for other codecs and a 2.5k downscale of the full sensor...

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So here's what's going down in my store...

 

Oh and the cameras are Olympus ones, they are taking the stand.

Then I went and asked the manager - what's going on? "They are leaving the market"

So I went into another major retail store... same thing "They are leaving the market".

It ain't looking good.

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So here's what's going down in my store...

 

Oh and the cameras are Olympus ones, they are taking the stand.

Then I went and asked the manager - what's going on? "They are leaving the market"

So I went into another major retail store... same thing "They are leaving the market".

It ain't looking good.

daaaaamn

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So here's what's going down in my store...

 

Oh and the cameras are Olympus ones, they are taking the stand.

Then I went and asked the manager - what's going on? "They are leaving the market"

So I went into another major retail store... same thing "They are leaving the market".

It ain't looking good.

Most likely Samsung is going to focus on selling their cameras on-line, where they can get greater margins, then retail, which becomes expensive if one's volume is low.  I've NEVER seen a Panasonic GH4 at any retail store.  In fact, I only see Panasonic's low end stuff.  Sony has gone in and out of the retail market with their cameras in the past.  Canon stopped selling the EOS-M line in the States for a while.  Why speculate on business matters of which one knows nothing about?  Also, as others have pointed out, Samsung is such a large, powerful, and financially wealthy company I can't see them quitting cameras, if only for reasons of pride.

In short, anyone reading this thread believing Samsung has given up on these cameras should ask themselves, would they answer every rumor about their business?  No blog has EVER killed a camera or made it successful.  In the end, good cameras with good marketing sell,  Period, end of story.  I don't know what Samsung is doing, but unless they say they're exiting the business, I'd ignore these rumors.  There were a millions reasons for Sony to give up in the past decade.  Same for Canon's EOS-M line.  These are real companies, with smart people, with long-term plans.  

Of look at it this way, say the camera is a failure, why wouldn't Samsung just come out and say they're giving up?  Most companies want to distance themselves as quickly as possible from dead products.  Or, wouldn't Samsung want to sell what they've built already?  Why hurt your asset?  None of these rumors make sense from a business perspective, no matter what angle you look at it from.  

Samsung is in the leader in displays, especially 4K.  The camera play is long-term thinking.  I'd very VERY surprised if they'd give up this early when the camera has been far from a failure with first adopters.  Retail sales of cameras only works for the top selling cameras.  Sometimes you need to go to the minors for a while.  All these companies do this.  If you've been around long enough you know.

 

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Yea, still early doors yet.... They have seemingly said themselves that they will pull out of retail in Europe... That doesn't mean they are pulling out of the camera game completely. Still bad news though, if it had been a major success, they would have gone for the jugular.

 

As an Android app developer, I can tell you that Samsung make fast and hard decisions though... This could be the end... It could just as easily be some crazy move towards an NX2 built around an app store. They are very fast to market, very fast to change completely to suit their ideas (and very fast to ditch an idea, at times).

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Yea, still early doors yet.... They have seemingly said themselves that they will pull out of retail in Europe... That doesn't mean they are pulling out of the camera game completely.

Don't you deem it even *slightly* odd that 1 month ago rumours came out of South Korea saying they were finishing in the camera business, then now they are pulling all the stock and marketing material from the biggest consumer electronics chain in Europe?

Put two and two together my friend!

Samsung is in the leader in displays, especially 4K.  The camera play is long-term thinking.  I'd very VERY surprised if they'd give up this early

The NX system has been around for a long time almost from the start of mirrorless.

Sure, soon to give up on the NX1, but given up on it they almost certainly have.

I think Samsung will be back one day with a different system, full frame almost certainly and not APS-C.

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Most likely Samsung is going to focus on selling their cameras on-line, where they can get greater margins, then retail, which becomes expensive if one's volume is low.  I've NEVER seen a Panasonic GH4 at any retail store.  In fact, I only see Panasonic's low end stuff.  Sony has gone in and out of the retail market with their cameras in the past.  Canon stopped selling the EOS-M line in the States for a while.  Why speculate on business matters of which one knows nothing about?  Also, as others have pointed out, Samsung is such a large, powerful, and financially wealthy company I can't see them quitting cameras, if only for reasons of pride.

In short, anyone reading this thread believing Samsung has given up on these cameras should ask themselves, would they answer every rumor about their business?  No blog has EVER killed a camera or made it successful.  In the end, good cameras with good marketing sell,  Period, end of story.  I don't know what Samsung is doing, but unless they say they're exiting the business, I'd ignore these rumors.  There were a millions reasons for Sony to give up in the past decade.  Same for Canon's EOS-M line.  These are real company, with smart people, with long-term plans!  

 

I exchanged a few more emails with the Customer Rep but they weren't worth posting on here as they just repeated the same thing in similar sentences. 

I got that the NX1 is indeed discontinued (not sure about any others, looks likely though), however the technology maybe/might be/hopefully continue in some way or another. I gave up because the guy just zipped his mouth. Who knows. 

Got the A7SII and A7RII on the way. Ursa Mini 4.6k cancelled. Sudden change of business plans. Will revisit this again mid-2016. 

Will pick up an NX1 if it goes dirt cheap! 

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I think Samsung will be back one day with a different system, full frame almost certainly and not APS-C.

Why a different system when so many people like their current design.  The real negatives are the slower-than-anticipated adoption of H.265 and 4K TV.  It doesn't make sense to sell cameras in retail stores when the consumer can't do anything with the video when they get home.  Why wouldn't they just continue with their current camera line and sell mostly online, like Panasonic, until market conditions favor their product.  As for full-frame, that's a professional stills market.  You know that?  Their factories are already set up to make these cameras.  It would be less expensive to keep making them then stopping and re-tooling.  

I exchanged a few more emails with the Customer Rep but they weren't worth posting on here as they just repeated the same thing in similar sentences. 

I got that the NX1 is indeed discontinued (not sure about any others, looks likely though), however the technology maybe/might be/hopefully continue in some way or another. I gave up because the guy just zipped his mouth. Who knows. 

Got the A7SII and A7RII on the way. Ursa Mini 4.6k cancelled. Sudden change of business plans. Will revisit this again mid-2016. 

Will pick up an NX1 if it goes dirt cheap! 

Oliver, you know I love you!  You think the customer rep knows anything?  C'mon ;)  You guys either need to go work at some corporations and read some books on large-scale technology development.  It takes a LONG time for these companies to commit the resources to develop a new product.  There's so much that goes into a modern day camera.  I can't see how Samsung would start such a difficult project without having a 10 to 20 year plan that factors in market/economic downturns.

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Don't you deem it even *slightly* odd that 1 month ago rumours came out of South Korea saying they were finishing in the camera business, then now they are pulling all the stock and marketing material from the biggest consumer electronics chain in Europe?

Put two and two together my friend!

I'm not saying all is good and happy and the NX2 will be on the shelves in PC world in the next week.... I'm just saying that it is also not some clear sign of the end of Samsung in this part of the industry.

My business is tied heavily with Android, of which Samsung are a major player... We study their moves with great interest and they work in a very different way to most companies...

The chromebooks are a good example. Discontinued in Europe, pulled from every store, (that template email Oliver got was initially about the chromebook and how markets vary). Yet still sell in USA and Asia and can easily be purchased online in Europe. They get rave reviews, yet Samsung just don't see a market in Europe.

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Lol. Are you for real?

You said that companies like Samsung pay to be displayed in small specialized camera stores. Since I know its complete BS I called you on it.

And instead of showing me proof or admiting that you rarely if ever read the posts you quote, thats your reply??

Ok. Tug. Enjoy your Sunday.

You are right that slotting fees are uncommon in specialty retail. But they are absolutely a widespread phenomenon in supermarkets and superstores, pretty much everywhere. (I know for sure that Mediamarkt, the European consumer electronic superstore where Andrew took the pictures of the vacated Samsung camera displays, charges them.)

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Lol. Are you for real?

You said that companies like Samsung pay to be displayed in small specialized camera stores. Since I know its complete BS I called you on it.

And instead of showing me proof or admiting that you rarely if ever read the posts you quote, thats your reply??

Ok. Tug. Enjoy your Sunday.

When you see a display in a store for a specific product line, you can be almost certain that the manufacturer is paying for it. It is part of the distribution system.

The demo models belong to the manufacturer as part of their marketing effort (particularly high end ones). It costs money to put one in every store. There are other costs as well, all of the secondary advertising has to be paid for, and you can bet that the vendor is not the one paying.

At the local London Drugs around the corner from my place they have a large electronics section (about a third of the store). They often have the latest Samsung cell phone on display in its own little booth, not associated with a provider. That booth is bought and paid for by Samsung. The phone itself was installed with its anti-theft devices by Samsung marketing representatives. I know this for a fact because I was talking to the stores tech manager about the phone (it kept triggering the alarm when anyone touched it). This is how tech companies do business through their approved retailer network, Samsung included. If you are an official distributor you will be getting direct marketing support from the manufacturer in the form of promotional materials, reimbursement for display costs and free demo products.

In Canada they do not appear to be doing this anywhere except in Best Buy, and even there they have never had the latest NX products (NX1, NX500, S lenses). It is all old stuff, even the products in the fancy display case.

If you are not seeing a particular camera brand or model on the store shelves, it is because the manufacturer is not actively marketing where you live. It is simple as that.

That is not to say that it isn't available.....they may be doing passive marketing through on line sales, or individual retailers are obtaining stock on their own and selling it.

I can't comment on what the situation is in Sweden, but I can assure you that Samsung has done zero marketing of the NX1/500 systems in Canada beyond the generic cut and past web page on their .ca website. If you looked for retailers of the systems on their website they were pointing to vendors that didn't even sell cameras. In fact, if you go to a Samsung experience store even the people there don't know anything about it. Because of that it was difficult to find out where you could actually buy one, even though the camera was supposedly officially released in Canada.

Whatever the fate of the NX system is, all I can say is that Samsung have been shockingly inept in marketing it here. Based on what people have been posting regarding availability elsewhere, I suspect that it is the same in most parts of the world. It is as though they had given up on the system even before they started selling it.

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