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jacoblewis

Is Samsung shutting down their camera business?

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No offense guys, but it's a bit sensationalist to say NX1 is dead if "In Europe, we will be discontinuing sales of NX1 cameras for now." We haven't confirmed this statement is official since there is nobody named; even if official, they aren't saying it's permanent (as in "dead"); and even if permanent, it only affects Europe, which is like 10% of world's population (don't know market size wise, but I'm sure it's tiny compared to North America, for example). In any case, you can't kill a product "for now" (what are they going to do, keep all the facilities and people on standby just in case?), so it has to be either dead or alive, can't be dead "for now."

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Just for perspective.  Galaxy Note 5, Samsung's flagship smartphone, isn't being sold in Europe.  This doesn't that mean the Galaxy Note 5 is dead, along with the entire Galaxy line and Samsung is shutting down their smartphone business.

Another food for thought.  If all this turns out to be true, it sounds like Samsung expects to lose money if they do another production run.  Right now, they are selling the top rated, one of the most expensive non-luxury interchangable lens crop sensor cameras.  Are they selling them at cost or at a loss?  If not, why not blow them out at half price and make some money on the lenses?  None of this makes sense.  All of these dots are loosely connected.

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even if permanent, it only affects Europe, which is like 10% of world's population (don't know market size wise, but I'm sure it's tiny compared to North America, for example).

Haha. Europe's camera market for mirrorless is actually larger than the US.

The overall entire market for cameras in Europe is roughly equal in size to the entire US market. Asia market too.

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Guys,

Its irrelevant to keep speculating if they are quitting the camera business or not, wasting time wont change a thing. To those who didnt buy the camera, you still have time, to those who have the camera, rest assured you have the best aps-c available for the price. I too am worried if I can sell it or not in a few years, but im quite happy with the camera now, so theres no use in thinking how much I can sell it for in a couple of years. Is it sad news ? Yes it is. Can we do something about it ? Not really, unless someone just bought 1 million cameras. Lets hope we start getting hacks for it, and develop the camera/brand even further, so that Samsung can see theres a demand for it and that the failure was marketing strategy and not product related.

 

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You're right, I am wondering why owners aren't being more positive, they have easily the best image from a Super 35mm / APS-C camera for the price. The S lenses are the best for APS-C as well. 16-50mm... superb. You have to go up to the A7R II's Super 35mm mode at $3500 go one better than it... and even then, not by much and in some ways the NX1 is better. Especially ergonomically. Also, for how good the fine detail and Rec.709 profile colours are straight off the card.

For me, it being discontinued makes it even more special. Rarer, fewer people shooting with it, nice to have. What a gem.

Scarcity value people!!

Keep it for a few years and you will get your resale value back, as it will be so rare.

In 20 years it might even be like gold dust.

Some of the SNES games that had short production runs just before the system was discontinued go for over £1000 on eBay, people don't realise how the market treats rare consumer electronics. They are valued.

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Haha. Europe's camera market for mirrorless is actually larger than the US.

The overall entire market for cameras in Europe is roughly equal in size to the entire US market. Asia market too.

No, we don't know the numbers for Samsung; if anyone knows, please share. The overall market size for mirrorless is irrelevant for Samsung's decision to remain in or quit a market: what matters is the market opportunity for Samsung specifically in the different geos. Based on the anecdotal info, there seems to be little traction for Samsung in Europe, perhaps folks there are for more traditional Camera players...you'll know better since you live there.

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I hope prices will drop quite considerably. The only camera with a bigger than 4/3" sensor is my D5300... and I just wish it was mirrorless. I'd rather have Sony nail it with the A6000's successor (hopefully with trickled down tech from the likes of the RX10M2, RX100IV, A7RII and A7SII), but I'm afraid they consider an APS-C mirrorless like that threatning to the A7-line, so they're probably going to restrict it in some ways. So, the NX1 will still be a great APS-C mirrorless option. Just for now, I think for the masses, or myself, the price is just way to high up there and personally would rather have a Nikon D750 that only does 1080p, but still being great at it and having something fullframe. Once the price drops to something like E-M1 12-40mm f/2.8 kit level (1789 EUR) and lower, it could start to get interesting though...

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The reason people are concerned is glass.... Good glass IS an investment or at least a long term purchase. I think we are all well aware a camera has a very finite lifespan, these days... But you want your glass to go from system to system, upgrade to upgrade, wherever possible.

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No, we don't know the numbers for Samsung; if anyone knows, please share. The overall market size for mirrorless is irrelevant for Samsung's decision to remain in or quit a market: what matters is the market opportunity for Samsung specifically in the different geos. Based on the anecdotal info, there seems to be little traction for Samsung in Europe, perhaps folks there are for more traditional Camera players...you'll know better since you live there.

Traditional, no, that would be the US market. Sony sold more mirrorless cameras in Germany in August than Canon or Nikon sold DSLRs. First time this has happened. This is according to Zeiss. They didn't say what happened the month after ;)

The size of the mirrorless market isn't irrelevant for Samsung.

They are in it!

If the market is shrinking, then they might want to leave it.

The problem with APS-C is that it sits in the middle and lower end. The lower end consumer stuff is of course being pummelled by smartphone usage. The higher end is full frame and expanding. This is a classic case of a market in-between being squeezed from both sides.

This is why Nikon don't seem that committed to a pro APS-C DSLR, the D7200 is about as good as they have.

This is why Canon created the 6D. The 7D Mark II was a long time coming and there are very few new APS-C lenses in production.

Crop sensors relative to full frame have to have clear other benefits to succeed... 4K video, smaller size lenses & bodies, cheaper, faster continuous shooting, etc. The NX1 had a lot of special sauce but soon full frame cameras got most of it as well with the A7R II, A7S II so I think in light of that they just thought "ah, fuck it" :)

I am sure if the NX1 is at an end Samsung will be back eventually with a full frame camera.

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I am sure if the NX1 is at an end Samsung will be back eventually with a full frame camera.

 

Samsung doesn't like to follow.  If they come back, I think they will do something special.  Not full frame, but medium format w/ 8k video while retaining the small form factor.  The full frame camera market is too crowded right now, and the margins are slowly getting squeezed.  Because of this, if Samsung cannot come out with something special, they are not coming out at all.  It's all about the math.  Another full frame camera is not worth Samsung's time... Another crop sensor on an interchangeable lens body is definitely not worth the time.  I think Samsung's strategy is "go big or go home"...   I think they have chosen to "go home"...

 

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Julian! I have checked the facts. You want a list?

Fact - Media Markt / Saturn group in Germany say NX1 is discontinued, are running discounts to clear stock.

Fact - More than 1 specialist store in Berlin has told me Samsung are shuttering the camera business entirely, not just the major retailers

Fact - Samsung's very own customer support staff, very likely with permission from their bosses or head office have told us the NX1 is being discontinued. Not an isolated incident. Other users have had the same response separately, from other Samsung teams in other countries.

Fact - For over a month rumours have been in existence. The fact they are in existence is not proof by itself but put two and two together.

Fact - My own contact at Samsung is quiet, likely assigned to different division as per earliest rumours

Fact - The first sources of the rumours were reputable South Korean news sites

Fact - Stores globally have been clearing Samsung stock all at the SAME TIME. From Sweden to Australia

Fact - NX system sales haven't met Samsung's expectations

Fact - The statement Oliver had is word for word a match to previous official Samsung statements about discontinued products

Fact - Samsung haven't denied any of this when asked

Yes, I want facts. Of course. Good that you included them now in your update on the blog.

It's not about arguing if the rumors are true or not. I just strongly disagreed with your conclusion (the title of the article, which is much better in its current form) based on the response Oliver got.

It simply is _not_ an official statement from Samsung. It might be a statement from a certain guy with a certain position at a certain division, but all those aspects are unknown. Apparently Oliver knows them and it would be good for the value of article to include this information.

I'm kind of flabbergasted that Dpreview just copies your blog, without taking the 5 minutes needed to find the original source of the quote (which is right here in the topic).

The whole thing kind of took a 180 degree when Oliver got that second response.

Anyway, no hard feelings. I value this blog, and above all it's a blog so write whatever you want (that's why I value it...). I do think you could do better journalism sometimes and make articles like this much more valuable with some more fact checking and verification (or at least arguments - like you added now). Even a 'Samsung declined to respond on the matter' kind of reply would be valuable.

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Widely read articles always bring a few trolls out of the woodwork who don't really belong in the EOSHD community and don't really read the articles here, who aren't really very passionate about filmmaking and who aren't really very interested in the blog.

The core of the community here is great. Thanks for sharing the news Oliver. And see what Jeff has to say at DPR. Initially he was skeptical, then he read the Samsung statement about discontinued laptops they gave PC Advisor... http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8930601010/samsung-nx1-discontinued-in-europe-rumors-say-yes

I say to the trolls on this thread, the very essence of ignorance and stupidity is not being able to put two and two together.

It isn't just one source (Samsung reps / customer support) saying the NX1 is done... It is a whole host of them around the world, all saying the same thing.

Oliver's finding was the tipping point for me. The moment where it all 'clicked'.

Julian! I have checked the facts. You want a list?

Fact - Media Markt / Saturn group in Germany say NX1 is discontinued, are running discounts to clear stock.

Fact - More than 1 specialist store in Berlin has told me Samsung are shuttering the camera business entirely, not just the major retailers

Fact - Samsung's very own customer support staff, very likely with permission from their bosses or head office have told us the NX1 is being discontinued. Not an isolated incident. Other users have had the same response separately, from other Samsung teams in other countries.

Fact - For over a month rumours have been in existence. The fact they are in existence is not proof by itself but put two and two together.

Fact - My own contact at Samsung is quiet, likely assigned to different division as per earliest rumours

Fact - The first sources of the rumours were reputable South Korean news sites

Fact - Stores globally have been clearing Samsung stock all at the SAME TIME. From Sweden to Australia

Fact - NX system sales haven't met Samsung's expectations

Fact - The statement Oliver had is word for word a match to previous official Samsung statements about discontinued products

Fact - Samsung haven't denied any of this when asked

 

The people arguing that the rumours are false are arguing on the side of insanity. Let's look at the possibility the "rumours aren't true"...

Do people really think more than one Samsung team in more than one country would say the business is over, they are going, NX1 is discontinued, do people really think that is normal behaviour or some kind of employee disgruntlement? Only if it were just ONE rogue reply by ONE member of staff could that possibly be true.

Add to that, do you think that random stores all round the world in Sweden, Australia, Germany would all suddenly join in just for fun, at risk of losing their jobs for spreading defamatory statements about one of the largest consumer electronics giants in the world?

Add to that, do you think the contacts I have after 5 years of working in the photo and video industry running a well known blog are also having a big laugh as well? Some of them directly to my face?

Add to that, do you think the NX1 has been a rip roaring sales success?!

Add to that, does anyone seriously believe the sudden clearing of stock, not replenishing old stock, dropping prices of lenses not just the NX1, do you think that is completely unrelated and that it doesn't give weight to the above sources of information?!

Add to that, do you think the similarity with the statement PC Advisor got about the laptops being discontinued is just a coincidence?

Yep... so mad to believe in rumours huh!?

Here are some more facts:

No matter what PC Adviser claimed last year, Samsung still sell laptops. http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/pcs

There have been occasional sales of NX products in North America, with temporary deep discounts on some of the older products, but there has been no wholesale selloff from the usual suppliers.

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Yes, I want facts. Of course. Good that you included them now in your update on the blog.

It's not about arguing if the rumors are true or not. I just strongly disagreed with your conclusion (the title of the article, which is much better in its current form) based on the response Oliver got.

It simply is _not_ an official statement from Samsung. It might be a statement from a certain guy with a certain position at a certain division, but all those aspects are unknown. Apparently Oliver knows them and it would be good for the value of article to include this information.

I'm kind of flabbergasted that Dpreview just copies your blog, without taking the 5 minutes needed to find the original source of the quote (which is right here in the topic).

The whole thing kind of took a 180 degree when Oliver got that second response.

Anyway, no hard feelings. I value this blog, and above all it's a blog so write whatever you want (that's why I value it...). I do think you could do better journalism sometimes and make articles like this much more valuable with some more fact checking and verification (or at least arguments - like you added now). Even a 'Samsung declined to respond on the matter' kind of reply would be valuable.

If it all turns out to be true then I'd class it as very good journalism, being the first to recognise what was going on and the first to break the news.

None of the other non-rumours sites did that, did they?

Maybe they didn't want to take the risk.

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If it all turns out to be true then I'd class it as very good journalism, being the first to recognise what was going on and the first to break the news.

None of the other non-rumours sites did that, did they?

Maybe they didn't want to take the risk.

Good journalism would be you being able to get the news confirmed officially. Which is probably not very realistic right now though, so I'd settle with any official statement on the matter.

Anyway, the article in its current form is fine. Using arguments and sources, forming an opinion. A lot better than the bold claim it was at first.

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Good journalism would be you being able to get the news confirmed officially.

Dear Samsung, did you kill Mr NX1?

Samsung: No!

Dear Samsung, OK you avoid jail time. Have a nice Christmas.

Which is probably not very realistic right now though, so I'd settle with any official statement on the matter.

You're in luck.

Samsung contacted me today, the head of PR in Germany is going to get an official statement out of Seoul.

Anyway, the article in its current form is fine. Using arguments and sources, forming an opinion. A lot better than the bold claim it was at first.

A bold claim yes. Bet I don't get any credit at all when it turns out to be right.

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