The new Sony FS5

[shemster]

Hi ，shemster，I found that different EF lens show different focus speed，some focus very slow and incorrectly，better use it with STM lens~

BTW，how you solve the len-noise problem when using non-STM lens？

Actually I do not have lens noise issue at all. At least it is not audible in the recording. You have problem with that? I have not tried stm lenses as I have none and mine are all EF. 

 

[gelaxstudio]

Actually I do not have lens noise issue at all. At least it is not audible in the recording. You have problem with that? I have not tried stm lenses as I have none and mine are all EF. 

 

Lens like 50 F1.8 II、 85 F1.8、24-85 show terrible mechanical sound，even some USM lens not working silently，I think that is why canon developed STM

[Gregormannschaft]

Lens like 50 F1.8 II、 85 F1.8、24-85 show terrible mechanical sound，even some USM lens not working silently，I think that is why canon developed STM

The 24-105mm L lens is incredibly crackly when you have IS turned on.

[shemster]

Lens like 50 F1.8 II、 85 F1.8、24-85 show terrible mechanical sound，even some USM lens not working silently，I think that is why canon developed STM

sorry pal but I do not have those lenses. I am mainly using 17-55 f2.8 IS, 35 f2, 50 f1.2, 70-200 f2.8, 10-22, 100 f2.8L and 100-400. All doesn't make any audible sound during filming. Yes, for sure STM are designed to be silent focus. I suspect its the kind of cam that you use determine the noise. I'm using C100. Not sure about other DSLR such as 70D.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

About AF noise (A relevant subject because the fs5 does have acceptable AF from first reports and much better than the fs7, so achieving focus before recording is at least a viable option) 

Noise significance depends on

-The loudness of the lens it self (motors and gears) 

-The proximity of the microphone to the lens

-The pick-up-pattern of the microphone 

1- Loudness varies enormously from a lens to another, but new lenses are quiet, even not just STM (Sony FE, Samaungs, Canons, Nikon), but older AF lenses can make really loud noises, loudest lens I have used is Canon's 50mm, and 28-135mm. So the first time I came to testing PDAF on the 70D I naturally used the 50 for a challenge, which takes us to 

2- Mic proximity: I found this, when using the internal microphone of the 70D that's litterally an inch away from the lens, the audio is simply unusable, but, once you attach a microphone to the hotshoe (I tested that specific place because not many have rigs to farther displace the mic holder and many use the hotshoe), the lens noise is significantly reduced, at least 80%. But still, it's on the track, which takes us to 

3- Once you attach a shotgun microphone, something with a narrow pick-up pattern, the noise is practically not there, even with the 50mm on the 70D hotshoe. Put using an omnidirectional microphone on the hotshoe (I tried the Go) the noise is audible again, as said in 2, about 80% reduced from internal mic, but not great. 

 

 

About the C100 and FS5, the microphone holders are farther from the lens than a 70D, quite a bit more, so it helps, using a shotgun microphone there noise will not be an issue with a loud lens, with an omni mic, it will be an issue, again with a audible lens. 

If the lens is quiet, (STM, new Sony FEs) then discard all the previous, just don't use the internal microphone and you'll be fine. 

 

So as a rule of thumb

Loud lens = Shotgun mic and on holder or farther on cage/rig, never omni or internal mic. 

Quiet lens = You can use an omni mic on the holder (or shotgun of course), just don't use the internal mic really aside from a scratch track. 

 

Also using continuous AF will of course give continuous noise, but using one push AF will result in one noise before recording, which is how I liked using the first C100  and 70D, as in shooting stills, focus, lock, and re-compose, (strangely 70D being MUCH better than C100, but not used the MKII). It's a feature to treasure when performed accurately, you can trust the green box  instead of your own judgement with a crop/peaking, it's just in focus when green, which is a very useful tool to have even if continuous AF is not great like the Sony's.

 

An interesting piece of info, From an internal questionaire, I am actually told that only about 20% of the C100II users don't utilize PDAF at all (never touch it) and 80% say they do use it ocassionally, varying from full time AF to small specific Gimbal/Movi use. 

Autofocus is getting into the industry faster than you think. 

I look forward to the day I touch an actors face (wait that sounds wrong, I mean on the screen that is)  and the AF system tracks his eye ball 100% accurately at 85mm f/1.2. It will happen in a couple of years predictablly from Canon PDAF progression, we still haven't seen the C300II, it might do just that.

 

[xenogears]

Someone knows if the Fs5 apply some on fly correction from the generated distortions of the 18-105mm f4?

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Someone knows if the Fs5 apply some on fly correction from the generated distortions of the 18-105mm f4?

I know the FS7 doesn't, if that's indicative. 

But I wouldn't 100% rule it out.

The FS5 has quite a few improvements over the FS7 and this might be one. (The firmware/UI/menu is hugely improved, the LCD hinge, an EVF, noise reduction in cine-i mode, HD s16/2/3'' center scan mode, clear 1.5x 4K zoom upscale, 240p 8 seconds burst, improved grip design, electronic stronger step-less ND *genius*, improved auto-focus)

They might have applied the most requested 18-105mm correction especially since it's the official kit lens while the FS7's is the 28-135mm F4.

 

PS: If I was looking for an all purpose zoom I'd use the Canon/Sigma 24-105 f/4 + speed booster = An effective S35 16-70mm f/2.8 OSS FE LENS

With a budget, I'd take a variable Canon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS which is a much better performer vs the sony, much less money and higher reach, better IS (Best video IS implementation ever), which is why it's the kit lens for the FS5 sister, c100. The joy of E-mount. 

[maxmizer]

2- FS700 + XDCA + Q7 + Licence Raw

Option two is more cost FS5 "I certainly 12bit raw "
at this point, if you make me a loan the money, I'm going to buy this ...

https://www.adcom.it/it/ripresa-registrazione/camcorders-4k-4k-ready/super-35/sony-broadcast-pmw-f55/0100072/p_u_14_341_2846_31473_219036

joke!

 

P.S. Option One look GH5, Option three does not fit the mount, because I lomo oct18 cine lens ...sorry

[jax_rox]

And PDAF？Seriously？What filmmaker cares about AF ?Moreover  the PDAF only works on EF DSLR lens

Of course the advanced Canon auto focus only works on EF lenses on a Canon body.... I'm not sure how else you would expect it to work... on PL lenses that are entirely mechanical...??

Let's be real here - there'll be plenty of documentary, event, wedding, etc. shooters going for a C100 or C300 over the Sony purely for the auto focus.

[gelaxstudio]

sorry pal but I do not have those lenses. I am mainly using 17-55 f2.8 IS, 35 f2, 50 f1.2, 70-200 f2.8, 10-22, 100 f2.8L and 100-400. All doesn't make any audible sound during filming. Yes, for sure STM are designed to be silent focus. I suspect its the kind of cam that you use determine the noise. I'm using C100. Not sure about other DSLR such as 70D.

How the AF working while u zooming by using zoom-len？ I didn't see any review about DPAF working when zooming ~

Really curious how it plays out，I try once on my friend‘s 70D with 24-85mm，not working well，responsing obviously slow~

 

[BenEricson]

Confused about some of the specs listed. I actually don't even see the 240fps specs listed on the BH site. It doesn't list the 10 bit recording in the recording format section, but it does in the description below.

The PXW-FS5 records to XAVC-L QFHD 8-bit 420 (up to 30fps) and HD 10-bit 422 (up to 60fps) internally.

The XAVC Long allows you to encode from HD to UHD using Intra-Frame or Long GoP compression with 10-bit 422 for HD and the choice of 10-bit 422 or 8-bit 420 for UHD.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185424-REG/sony_pxw_fs5_xdcam_super_35.html

[ntblowz]

FS5 recording format

[shemster]

How the AF working while u zooming by using zoom-len？ I didn't see any review about DPAF working when zooming ~

Really curious how it plays out，I try once on my friend‘s 70D with 24-85mm，not working well，responsing obviously slow~

 

I frequently use 70-200 and zoom in and out. It works perfectly fine and fast. For DPAF, it's about the cam that you use. I'm using c100 so its definitely better than 70D. 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Confused about some of the specs listed. I actually don't even see the 240fps specs listed on the BH site. It doesn't list the 10 bit recording in the recording format section, but it does in the description below.

The PXW-FS5 records to XAVC-L QFHD 8-bit 420 (up to 30fps) and HD 10-bit 422 (up to 60fps) internally.

The XAVC Long allows you to encode from HD to UHD using Intra-Frame or Long GoP compression with 10-bit 422 for HD and the choice of 10-bit 422 or 8-bit 420 for UHD.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1185424-REG/sony_pxw_fs5_xdcam_super_35.html

Sony official contact specifications, written in stone:

-240p is a dedicated separate 8 second burst mode. FS700 quality (aliasing/softness)

-The FS5 is only UHD capable, and there are plans to enable 17:9 4K/2K ''later''.

-Internal SD card recording in 1080P is 10bit 4:2:2, up to 60p, 50mbps XAVC-LongGOP in MXF. wrapper

-Internal SD card recording in UHD is 8bit 4:2:0, up to 30p, 100mbps XAVC-LongGOP in MXF. wrapper

-External HDMI signal is maximum 10bit 4:2:2 in 1080p

-External HDMI signal is maximum 8bit 4:2:2 in UHD

-External SDI signal is maximum 1080p (as fs7)

-There will be a later paid hardware/software upgrade giving 12bit RAW signal from SDI. No information is currently available more than this line. It can be an extra 5000$ SDI box to output a single 30p 12bit HD  RAW mode, or a 100$ downloadable file that outputs from the in-camera SDI a 60p 12bit DCI 4K , 2K 240P continuous. No one knows so don't believe otherwise.

 

[jax_rox]

-There will be a later paid hardware/software upgrade giving 12bit RAW signal from SDI. No information is currently available more than this line. It can be an extra 5000$ SDI box to output a single 30p 12bit HD  RAW mode, or a 100$ downloadable file that outputs from the in-camera SDI a 60p 12bit DCI 4K , 2K 240P continuous. No one knows so don't believe otherwise.

 

I wonder if Sony may be developing their own raw recorder (either by themselves or in conjunction with someone else)? Seems like a lot of profit that they're squandering to other businesses...

They built a small recorder for the Z1 cameras so you didn't have to go to tape... I see no reason why they wouldn't be trying to pull back some profits and sell package deals. I wouldn't be too surprised if a future F3 replacement could be bought as a package with a Sony/Zeiss zoom, or prime set - re-housed with manual gears, in addition to a Sony proprietary raw recorder that its also compatible with the F5/55, Fs5, Fs7 etc.

[IronFilm]

Someone knows if the Fs5 apply some on fly correction from the generated distortions of the 18-105mm f4?

I would be extremely surprised if it doesn't, as both FS700 and FS7 have this. The only camera of note I can think of which doesn't have this is the FS100, but this is much older (came out before the 18-105 was released) and is lower end than the FS5.

The other big factor is the 18-105 is shipping as the FS5 kit lens!!! So of course the FS5 will correct for it. 

I know the FS7 doesn't, if that's indicative. 

Wrong, it does. There is an option in the menu for lens correction. I've often used my Sony 18-105mm f/4 on the Sony FS7.

I wonder if Sony may be developing their own raw recorder (either by themselves or in conjunction with someone else)? Seems like a lot of profit that they're squandering to other businesses...

They built a small recorder for the Z1 cameras so you didn't have to go to tape... I see no reason why they wouldn't be trying to pull back some profits and sell package deals. I wouldn't be too surprised if a future F3 replacement could be bought as a package with a Sony/Zeiss zoom, or prime set - re-housed with manual gears, in addition to a Sony proprietary raw recorder that its also compatible with the F5/55, Fs5, Fs7 etc.

surely a future F3 replacement already exists....  ?? The F5! (Looking forward to buying one in 2017 ;-) )

[pablogrollan]

With a budget, I'd take a variable Canon 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS which is a much better performer vs the sony, much less money and higher reach, better IS (Best video IS implementation ever), which is why it's the kit lens for the FS5 sister, c100. The joy of E-mount. 

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. I own both lenses and I have to say the Sony G 18-105 PZ f4 is way better than the Canon 18-135:

- metal construction vs. fiddly plastic (and the Sony feels much better overall)

- constant f4 vs. variable which starts right after the 18mm, making it impossible to use as a zoom.

- parfocal vs non-parfocal

- internal non-protruding zoom vs. protruding: also, the Canon has so little dampening that it extends itself when shooting downwards at a steep angle.

- super silent zoom and focus motors vs. noisy one: the Canon doesn't have a zoom motor and it is considerably noisy if you choose to autofocus on both the C100 and C300.

- annoying focus-by-wire vs. conventional focusing: this would be the only "but" on the Sony lens (why, Sony, why??), but at least both the zoom and focus rings have a very nice feel and are large enough for manual use. The Canon 18-135 focus ring is rubbish: tiny, wobbly and with a minimal focus throw which make it pretty unusable.

- 550$ vs. 500$: money is not the issue here...

Keep in mind the Sony G series tried to be equivalent to the Canon L series. I think Canon L lenses are in another league in terms of handling and build quality, but this Sony G lens is still many steps above the cheapo Canon EF-S kit lenses...

[jax_rox]

surely a future F3 replacement already exists....  ?? The F5! (Looking forward to buying one in 2017 ;-) )

I mean an 'in-between' camera that sits between the FS7 and the F5. F5's a great camera, but it was also initially more expensive than the F3 and much higher specced. I wonder if there's room in Sony's line-up for an 'in-between' camera body that sits around $12-14k. Maybe a camera/recorder/lens package that sits around $16-17k (body price of the F5).

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I wonder if Sony may be developing their own raw recorder (either by themselves or in conjunction with someone else)? Seems like a lot of profit that they're squandering to other businesses...

Sony does make a 4K RAW recorder for the FS5, FS7, FS700, F5 and F55. Cost two kidneys and a sub 3 year-old child. 

Wrong, it does. There is an option in the menu for lens correction. I've often used my Sony 18-105mm f/4 on the Sony FS7.

It only correct distortion on the FS700 and FS7 in HD mode, and doesn't correct on the FS100. I believe this is the reason he was asking if it's going to work with the FS5. I mean 4K is probably what we're going to be shooting on these cameras not HD. 

BTW Sony told me when I asked, this problem is simply due to pixel count, with a 1080p sensor, distortion correction will result in a sub-1080p image, with a 4K sensor, it will result in a sub-4K image, hence not on the FS100 and only in HD in 4K cameras, FS700, FS7, F5, and F55. 

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. I own both lenses and I have to say the Sony G 18-105 PZ f4 is way better than the Canon 18-135:

- metal construction vs. fiddly plastic (and the Sony feels much better overall)

- constant f4 vs. variable which starts right after the 18mm, making it impossible to use as a zoom.

- parfocal vs non-parfocal

- internal non-protruding zoom vs. protruding: also, the Canon has so little dampening that it extends itself when shooting downwards at a steep angle.

- super silent zoom and focus motors vs. noisy one: the Canon doesn't have a zoom motor and it is considerably noisy if you choose to autofocus on both the C100 and C300.

- annoying focus-by-wire vs. conventional focusing: this would be the only "but" on the Sony lens (why, Sony, why??), but at least both the zoom and focus rings have a very nice feel and are large enough for manual use. The Canon 18-135 focus ring is rubbish: tiny, wobbly and with a minimal focus throw which make it pretty unusable.

- 550$ vs. 500$: money is not the issue here...

You're confusing the old 18-135mm with the new one designed for video.

The new 18-135mm STM solves most of these

1- Much better metal construction, 
2- 360 degree buttery smooth ring (linear), no wobble  
3- Zoom lock button
4- more silent than the 18-105mm (STM motor)
5- no 18-105mm unfixable distortion. 

It's just another option I am suggesting for people looking for an 18-105mm general purpose alternative. 

For the best general purpose solution for the FS5/FS7 I'd neither go for the Canon (variable/protrusion) nor the Sony (non-linear fly by wire and ridiculous distortion) I'd go with the Sigma/Canon 24-105mm F/4 + SB.

Giving a 16-105mm f/2.8 OSS.

The only ALL purpose s35 lens.

Nothing comes close to this range/aperture other than a 30.000$ Canon 17-120mm CN-E, which has no IS.
 

There's a great lengthy discussion about the e-mount best general purpose zoom: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?337668-Looking-for-a-Better-Quality-18-105mm-Zoom

[IronFilm]

 Ah right, I see. I was using the 18-105mm in HD on the FS7. Hope it works for 4K too on the FS5!

I mean an 'in-between' camera that sits between the FS7 and the F5. F5's a great camera, but it was also initially more expensive than the F3 and much higher specced. I wonder if there's room in Sony's line-up for an 'in-between' camera body that sits around $12-14k. Maybe a camera/recorder/lens package that sits around $16-17k (body price of the F5).

I think you're slicing the pricing segments too thinly there :-/ Not enough gap between FS7 and F5. Neither in price or features. 

Though I was surprised how closely positioned the FS7 and FS5 are in features/price!