TheRenaissanceMan Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Lens cap tests. quadruple facepalm. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8634/15706935630_58fe998d2c_o.jpg This image had about 50 dead pixels in it. from the a7rmk1. I could have left them in - the resolution is so high that the dead pixels are almost invisible and people are looking at the image rather than searching for the dead pixels, but i felt the 2mins effort processing and removing them was worth it. I'm pretty sure Sony would have just stuck the same sensor into the mk2 if there wasnt an advantage from the new sensor they've spent millions developing. I suggest people look on flickr for samples of landscapes from the a7rm2 before taking unskilled people's opinions seriously. Plenty of talented photographers showing what this camera does with lenses on, rather than with lens caps on! There are real world photos in that post too. Did you actually read it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Lens cap tests. quadruple facepalm. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8634/15706935630_58fe998d2c_o.jpg This image had about 50 dead pixels in it. from the a7rmk1. I could have left them in - the resolution is so high that the dead pixels are almost invisible and people are looking at the image rather than searching for the dead pixels, but i felt the 2mins effort processing and removing them was worth it. I'm pretty sure Sony would have just stuck the same sensor into the mk2 if there wasnt an advantage from the new sensor they've spent millions developing. I suggest people look on flickr for samples of landscapes from the a7rm2 before taking unskilled people's opinions seriously. Plenty of talented photographers showing what this camera does with lenses on, rather than with lens caps on! Speak for yourself. This is what you call 2 dead pixel ? http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3885329?post=56283045&image=0Taken with A7RII, long exposure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Ashcraft Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Speak for yourself. This is what you call 2 dead pixel ? http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3885329?post=56283045&image=0Taken with A7RII, long exposure. Thats what I would call a crappy, poorly exposed, poorly processed image with a giant crop on the darkest part of the frame. Its like you want the camera to be bad! richg101 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Look at the bright side, it's gonna be a great 'feature' when Christmas comes around. wolf33d, Shield3, vaga and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richg101 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Speak for yourself. This is what you call 2 dead pixel ? http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3885329?post=56283045&image=0Taken with A7RII, long exposure. A stupid consumer from dp review. looks like a 100% crop of probably the best part of the image. I don't see this issue in any of philip blooms images on flickr. DP review people are the worst people to take advice from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax_rox Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Speak for yourself. This is what you call 2 dead pixel ? http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3885329?post=56283045&image=0Taken with A7RII, long exposure. It's what I call a terrible image taken by someone who is a self-confessed newbie.I've seen some absolutely horrendous images from Canon and Nikon cameras taken by newbies. I've seen some absolutely horrendous RED Dragon footage, which was shot by someone who was a total newbie (I mean just awful).I'm not sure what the skill level of the operator has to do with how a particular camera performs. If you're looking for a point and shoot camera that gives you great looking stuff without the need for any knowledge or technique, there are plenty available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenaissanceMan Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I'm not sure why people are getting so defensive about what is a pretty apparent weakness with long exposures on the A7R II. It's to be expected with tons of pixels and poor heat dissipation. Does it render the camera unusable or condemn it to the junk bin? No. But it should be acknowledged and explored. Even if it turns out to be bad processing or poor exposure, we'll at least learn how and why the A7R II files fall apart. Shield3, MattH, Xavier Plagaro Mussard and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax_rox Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm not sure why people are getting so defensive about what is a pretty apparent weakness with long exposures on the A7R II.I don't feel I'm getting defensive - I just think this forum is quick to jump to the most ridiculous conclusions about products, and completely rule out products based on one, single, unscientific 'test' done by someone who is likely a newbie.That RED Dragon footage I saw that was insanely noisy, had blown-out highlights, crushed dynamic range, terrible skin tones etc. Instead of saying 'wow, how terrible is the RED Dragon, I'm never going to use it, it's a weak camera with terrible colours, and dynamic range and awful low-light ability' - I watched footage from others and did my own tests and came to the conclusion that you can get really beautiful looking images out of the RED Dragon, and that awful footage I saw was simply user error. I've seen 5D stills that are awful. I could have said 'man the 5D is just a terrible camera to use for portraits, obviously.' Of course, we all know that to be untrue - the 5D is a great stills camera. I'm not going to judge it based on a small number of people who aren't photographers, or don't know how to use it or expose their photos.No camera is perfect, and learning more about how they perform in certain situations is always good, and allows you to find strategies to compensate - but let's get some perspective here. And lets do our own tests before jumping to random conclusions. As I've said many times - people here talk at length about how 'awful' the colours from the A7s is. I'm yet to have the same issues. I do have some issues sometimes when skin is under-exposed, but overall I don't get anything like the issues that many seem to have here. By doing my own tests, I've figured out what I can get out of the camera, and how to compensate for other things in order to get great images.I didn't look at posts from people who were only using the camera for the first time and couldn't expose their images properly to base my decision on purchasing it. Emanuel and Zach Ashcraft 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chris Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Making definitive statements about it being useless for anything is complete hyperbole and a gross overreaction. The hot pixels are in every Sony sensor camera. If you take a long exposure with the lens cap on, push the exposure 5 or 6 stops and lift the shadows all the way and then blow up the image 400% there will be noise. Try the same thing with Canon or and m43 and it won't be any better. You can see the same thing on the A7s and D810 here: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1380165/2 and its also in the A7r files. Capture One easily eliminates all of this with no loss in detail. You can do long exposure noise reduction in cam and it takes a black frame and does the same thing. This does impact people stacking 200 images of star trails as that's not a practical workflow. But for most its a simple fix. Really. All of these declarations are such overreactions. First its the greatest camera ever! Then it overheats shooting non-stop 4k so its junk! Now there's noise in the shadows its useless! Take a step back, the reality is definitely somewhere in the middle. I've seen some pretty damn impressive landscape images from the A7rII and there will be many more. In no way are any of today's cameras holding you back.The A7rII certainly has warts, but I've said it before and I'll say it again - its a powerhouse camera that can replace the A7s/A7r and an external recorder for most - except for those that need lots of continuous 4k recording. But it still adds IBIS, 4k internal, better AF, faster startup time, 42mp (18 in crop mode) more adjustments (like minimum SS with auto ISO, assignable record button) and so on... jax_rox, agolex and Emanuel 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 I don't feel I'm getting defensive - I just think this forum is quick to jump to the most ridiculous conclusions about productsMaking definitive statements about it being useless for anything is complete hyperbole and a gross overreaction. The hot pixels are in every Sony sensor camera. If you take a long exposure with the lens cap on, push the exposure 5 or 6 stops and lift the shadows all the way and then blow up the image 400% there will be noise.I am not sure who is ridiculous here.With lens cap on? This is what you call lens cap on? http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3885329?post=56283045&image=1=> stop telling BS5 or 6 stops and lift the shadow all the way up? Really ? exposure is only up by 3.40 in lightroom, no touch to shadows (see seetings on lightroom screen capture above)=> stop telling BSNow have a deep look at this image, with exposure raised and how HORRIBLE it looks. This does not happen with any of the camera I have had. So before talking like this to people who nicely share their tests, watch for yourself first because what you said is just the most idiotic and BS ridiculous post I have seen on a forum since a while. Oh and by the way, get yourself some glasses and learn how to search on Google (tons of other exemples appart from this dpreview one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 12, 2015 Speak for yourself. This is what you call 2 dead pixel ? http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3885329?post=56283045&image=0Taken with A7RII, long exposure. Those aren't dead pixels.They are hot pixels.Enable the long exposure NR in the menus dude!! Why do you think almost every camera on the market has that option?And who the hell underexposes at 15 seconds by nearly 4 stops??A mad person that's who!To say it is a no-go for landscape due to this... is nuts. It is a bad test because it has no relation to reality. People do not go around exposing their garden for 15 seconds, then finding they are lacking 4 stops of light."No go for landscape".How about we align the tests with the real world.Expose for 15 seconds, turn on long-exposure noise reduction, let the NR also happen on default levels in the raw developer, results will be fine. That is not what I call a 'no-go' for landscape photography.Also what other 42MP full frame camera are you going to use, which does a sharp shot handheld at 1/4 with a F1.2 lens and usable ISO 6400 when exposed correctly? That is not what I call a "no go for landscape", even low light landscape.And one more thing to conclude the rant...What version of camera raw are you using? For example, Adobe haven't released support for the A7R II yet, so it could be a raw developer issue vs the other cameras which have established raw support. maxotics and TheRenaissanceMan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agolex Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Also what other 42MP full frame camera are you going to use, which does a sharp shot handheld at 1/4 with a F1.2 lens and usable ISO 6400 when exposed correctly? That is not what I call a "no go for landscape", even low light landscape.You shoot landscapes with F1.2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 12, 2015 You shoot landscapes with F1.2? Sometimes yes!I know what you're implying...Landscape photography should have infinitely deep DOF and must be as high resolution and as sharp as possible... blah blah blah.Real artists make their own rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agolex Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Sometimes yes!I know what you're implying...Landscape photography should have infinitely deep DOF and must be as high resolution and as sharp as possible... blah blah blah.Real artists make their own rules.*pat on back* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 12, 2015 *pat on back*How have you managed to fly under my very well evolved bastard detector radar for 196 posts? graphicnatured 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agolex Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 How have you managed to fly under my very well evolved bastard detector radar for 196 posts?I'm usually a peaceful chap. And hey, I'd shoot night landscapes at 1.2 as well – if I had such a nice lens. I do miss the Canon 24 1.4, that was really a killer nightscape beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm usually a peaceful chap. And hey, I'd shoot night landscapes at 1.2 as well – if I had such a nice lens. I do miss the Canon 24 1.4, that was really a killer nightscape beast.Killer nightscape beast sounds like a good film idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chris Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 because what you said is just the most idiotic and BS ridiculous post I have seen on a forum since a while. Oh and by the way, get yourself some glasses and learn how to search on Google (tons of other exemples appart from this dpreview one). Or you could get off your soapbox, turn on LENR and use Capture One - Adobe is obviously having issues with A7rII files as these issues are pretty much non-existent in C1. But common sense never seems to be the chosen route. Geez....I am not sure who is ridiculous here.With lens cap on? This is what you call lens cap on? http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3885329?post=56283045&image=1=> stop telling BSFrom the post you linked to on DPR, Capture One to the rescue. No BS, a simple fix until Adobe gets their shit straight with the A7rII. Not so ridiculous now, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 -...... Lol calm down. This is not my test at all. An exemple among dozens on the web. The question is not "do I capture 15s shots of my garden?" the thing is this problem did not exist on A7RI. The biggest problem is being the very reduced DR at long exposure (which does again not happen on a 5D for example). The Chris: funny but the Capture One and Adobe pics you posted don't have the same exposure at all. This problem occurs actually when pushing exposure. Moreover, you were talking about a pic with caps on which is not the case at all, so yes, still ridiculous. If you are not able to push your exposure because of heat and if the DR is reduced, at long exposure then yes it is a no go for me in landscape. If activating NR change that (what about the DR?) then why not. The rule has always been to actually turn off NR for long exposure ... Anyway I see that it is impossible to critic a camera here without people getting defensive as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted August 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted August 12, 2015 My criticism still stands.You're saying it's a problem.Not in the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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