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Ed_David

Oh no - 12 stops dynamic range

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this looks terrible - 12 stops of dynamic range!

 

Wait, this is shot on kodak 5219 film.  but the skies blow out - but

wait a second - look how they naturally blow out - how smooth the gradiation is - wait how unsmooth it is.  what do we do?  Do we accept dynamic range or do we fight it?

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Don't compare the figures they give to film with the ones they rate sensors with. I got into shooting stills with c-41 (portra 400, 160, ektar,etc...) on medium format, developing and scanning them on my own and film (specially portra 400) has impressive DR. I might do a comparison with the d800 (14 stops @ iso 100), but I think portra 400 (motion picture stock is supposed to be a little or much better) has more latitude.

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If you can't make something look good with 12 stops, nice highlight rolloff and some lights, you are need to work on your skills. That's the point you really can no longer blame your tools (and the reason I think the 5DRaw will keep me happy for a long, long time).

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Don't compare the figures they give to film with the ones they rate sensors with. I got into shooting stills with c-41 (portra 400, 160, ektar,etc...) on medium format, developing and scanning them on my own and film (specially portra 400) has impressive DR. I might do a comparison with the d800 (14 stops @ iso 100), but I think portra 400 (motion picture stock is supposed to be a little or much better) has more latitude.

​Agree. Maybe high iso films or older films were limited to 12 stops. But since mid/late 90s at least, at least the still 35mm films surpassed that.

I missed film many times with all the 12 EV stops cameras I shot with. Only when I had the D800 I realized that I won't miss any aspects of film anymore - and probably won't ever shoot film again.

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A stock with a 12 stop capture range?... without any special processing?  That's impressive.

 

Just before digital, we were lighting for a 7-8 stop range of tones with most film stocks.  One could pull (under-develop) while over-exposing to capture a greater range of tones (along with less saturation and less grain).  As I recall, "one stop" pull would yield about a two stop increase in capture range, but getting that extra stop of overall exposure sometimes required double the electric package.

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In my opinion they just wanted to create exactly that look. Vision 3 500 has also much more grain - obviously as 50 or 200t. And the also preserved that rough grain for a reason.

They could have gone even furhter for my taste and shoot that on 16mm - would have given an even "rawer" look to it. I like it very much. It is so refreshing to see film!

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... That's the point you really can no longer blame your tools ....

​If you can't blame your tools, 90% of this industry stops!!!! ;-DDD

I read people on forums talking about denoising all the time and every single time I go to a movie theater I see glorious noise all over the place. Even in daylight scenes. And I don't care, I'm watching a film!!!

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every scene in this incredible looking movie will have been lit to accommodate for the film dynamic range.  The lighting/power and associated transport will have cost more to rent than the camera and film costs.  Setting up/lighting the scenes will have taken 20 times longer than shooting the scenes that made it into the movie. each scene will have looked flat and dull compared to the actual end results.    

i'm about to invest in some arri lighting.  assuming I have 1 stop less dr on a camera, I'll light the darker areas so they're exposed 1 stop brighter to compensate.

 

dynamic range in the context of discussion on this site generally relates to its importance when shooting in natural light.  If i can't afford to add fill to a dark area,  or mask windows with nd, an extra stop or 2 is going to help me out.  getting a smooth image in a fast paced documentary shooting environment is a valuable asset the added dr affords.  

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every scene in this incredible looking movie will have been lit to accommodate for the film dynamic range. 

​People seem to massively underrate the use of lighting to create the cinematic look. It is not about recreating natural light, but enhancing it, giving a very slight unnatural, fantasy look.

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​You still need to mask those windows with a powermask in your grading suite, can you afford that?

​I'm not really interested in the post side of things with motion.  I'll do this sort of processing on stills if I feel there is a need but clever masking etc in the computer domain doesnt really interest me.  I'd more likely just not put a window in frame if it blows out.  What would a powermask do that a layer of nd4 film wouldnt?  

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I think what hmcindie was saying was to mask a window that was very bright and not clipped. You can do this with the sky- after shooting it looks white. In post, the sky can be brought down, red & green pulled, etc., and now we have blue sky and clouds too (can't mess with red & green too much else clouds will start to blue too). If it's clipped, this will still work, however clouds will be gone and a gradient will also help make it look real. In the case of a window, you could shoot plates of just the windows exposed properly, then in post mask and create alpha channels for windows, then compose the window plates back in. If the scene outside doesn't fit the story, this opens up the option to shoot plates elsewhere, etc. In some cases the simple solution suggested by richg101- ND film placed on the windows will make the most sense and be the most cost effective.

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