fuzzynormal Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 If you're pretty good at shooting stills (looks like you appreciate light) and just transitioning to motion pictures, I think the option of having 5-axis stabilization is actually a valuable tool. I found it incredibly nice to be able to grab steady video shots while spontaneously holding the camera in awkward positions...and not have to fret about the video being distractingly shaky. In that sense, it's a lot like just "grabbing a shot" when doing stills. Want to hold the camera high above your head with one hand while standing on a chair? You can make it work quickly and easily. That's not to be underestimated.I just wish Olympus' video was a bit more advanced as my main client is slightly more demanding than what Olympus video delivers, but even if it less than most, it's still quite decent. I used one of their cams for a month on the road and found it a lot of fun. That's saying something. For me, it's a camera that encouraged creativity by offering the ability to quickly get shots I would't get otherwise.Not sure if you've considered that aspect of motion pictures, but it can be a great tool depending on how and what you're trying to shoot.A lot of people go on and on ...and on and on... about sensor quality in forums such as these that focus almost exclusively on the technology --it's almost as if we forget around here that there are so many various aspects of motion picture production that go into making good video and it's not about having the greatest sensor. Not even close, in my opinion. Andrew Reid has even posted examples here of a young filmmaker working with a 5 year old Canon ti camera who's films are more interesting and visually engaging than the most advanced production companies with the latest and greatest gear. Meanwhile many of us gripe about the indignity of having 12 stops of dynamic range rather than 13 as if our professional lives depend on it. As I'm sure you're well aware of, since you're making great photos with decent but not great consumer gear, a successful image is NOT always about the sensor IQ.However, if the best available IQ on a budget is a top priority for you then, yeah, you'd probably look elsewhere. I have a GX7 I've been using a lot. I like it. I dig small cams.(man, I'm on a coffee rant...)Aside from that, what's with your shop? Not allowing you to shoot in store with your own SD card? That's kind of obnoxious. Hitfabryk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 If you're pretty good at shooting stills (looks like you appreciate light) and just transitioning to motion pictures, I think the option of having 5-axis stabilization is actually a valuable tool. I found it incredibly nice to be able to grab steady video shots while spontaneously holding the camera in awkward positions...and not have to fret about the video being distractingly shaky. (...) Not sure if you've considered that aspect of motion pictures, but it can be a great tool depending on how and what you're trying to shoot. You're right that the way the 5-axis stabilization works can change my look on handheld shooting. I mean: it would be great to have it, this feature seems really unique and its implemented very well. Olympus did a great job.I quickly looked at Olympus cameras and some EOSHD's reviews and it looks that the only reasonable choice is OM-D E-M1. I thought for a second about E-M5, but improvements made in E-M1 such as focus peaking, better codec, mic socket and crop mode are really important while talking about serious video production. However, apart from great features, the price is way out of my budget. Sorry!Not sure if you've considered that aspect of motion pictures, but it can be a great tool depending on how and what you're trying to shoot.A lot of people go on and on ...and on and on... about sensor quality in forums such as these that focus almost exclusively on the technology --it's almost as if we forget around here that there are so many various aspects of motion picture production that go into making good video and it's not about having the greatest sensor. Not even close, in my opinion. As I'm sure you're well aware of, since you're making great photos with decent but not great consumer gear, a successful image is NOT always about the sensor IQ. Thanks. I agree with you that sensor IQ is only part of the story.There's more than that. There's the feeling. The way you work with the camera, the way you experience it. For example, one great thing with my A35, which is a SLT camera, is EVF/LCD. Back then, three years ago, I couldn't even think that in traditional DSLRs AF in viewfinder mode is different than in live view (phase detection vs contrast detection). I know basic technical limiations behind it, but for someone who grew up with modern technology, it looks just obsolete. And the comfort when I'm shooting that the AF performance is always the same - no matter if I'm using EVF or LCD - is huge. I don't even think about it, "it just works".And this is also why I'm skeptical about D5300 or some APS-C Canons. They can offer maybe better quality in terms of video, but you know - I really like the functionality of Sony A7/A6000. I haven't had a chance to try A7, but I played with A6000 twice and it was nice.I checked some videos shot on D5300 (there aren't many right know) and to be honest, wow, video quality and low-light performance is really great for such a (relatively) cheap camera. But I'm really, really worried about functionality for video...Talking about cinematography, I recently watched Inception for, I don't know, 5th or 6th time and analyzed camera work. And I discovered that sometimes, I just use shallow depth of field too much. Many scenes in films - not only in Nolan's Inception with DOP Wally Pfister - are shot with pretty "deep" depth of field. However, there are also scenes with shallow depth of field, typically while trying to show viewers' some details, try to make the scene more intimate. But we saw an enormous usage of shallow depth of field when 5DM2 came and it revolutionized the filmmaking industry (mainly indie). ...Aside from that, what's with your shop? Not allowing you to shoot in store with your own SD card? That's kind of obnoxious.Hard to explain that. Probably I should look for a better store, not the generic "big" one with tons of electronics Cinegain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 focus peaking, better codec, mic socket and crop mode are really important while talking about serious video production.Good points all as ultimately it's your decision and what you're comfortable with. However, all great features are for naught if you don't put the camera in the right spot for a good shot! An awesome shot on a weak codec is better than a boring shot on RAW.The bottom line is this: you can make great images even if your gear has limitations. Skills before frills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 2, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 2, 2015 Fuzzy, please don't derail the post.If a filmmaker needs advice on hardware on a forum he's entitled to it. All the great acting and stories count for naught if the wrong gear is chosen and it can't get the shot.Also read Shane Hurlbut's opinion on why tests are important http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2012/09/the-importance-of-camera-tests/One day someone is going to derail someone else's internet research with the obvious "skills before frills, content is king" shit, and they are going to go off and make a mistake that ruins a shoot because of some gear related accident.So stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 If a filmmaker needs advice on hardware on a forum he's entitled to it. All the great acting and stories count for naught if the wrong gear is chosen and it can't get the shot.Also read Shane Hurlbut's opinion on why tests are important http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2012/09/the-importance-of-camera-tests/The tricky part in this is finding the right balance Andrew, you shot with Sony A7, Sony A6000 and D5300. Which camera do you like best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 2, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 2, 2015 The D5300 had the best image. A6000 a bit easier to use and mirrorless lens mount more adaptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noa Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Also read Shane Hurlbut's opinion on why tests are important http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2012/09/the-importance-of-camera-tests/ Actually, Shane says to do the tests yourself and not just take anyone else's word for it, to find your own style, your emulsion of choice. He summarizes it best with this sentence: "One person’s compression might be another person’s digital grain."Especially on this blog everyone has an opinion and at a certain point you need to make a choice, get a camera and like Shane also says "find a way to show the pros in the camera that you discover, not the ones that others find and to just hide the cons.I find there is a lot of truth in his words, based on my own experience, everyone wants to have the perfect camera but that doesn't exist, it's you who has to make it look perfect so in that sense I can relate to what Fuzzynormal said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Someone is going to derail someone else's internet research with the obvious "skills before frills, content is king" shit, and they are going to go off and make a mistake that ruins a shoot because of some gear related accident.That's a curious take. Do you think my perspective would be applicable if we flipped your scenario? That someone could indulge in the perfect gear for them and then still go off on a shoot and blow it by not being creative enough --or being under skilled at lighting, lens selection, writing… having bad habits like boredom, laziness, poor collaboration skills, etc?I can testify from my own personal experience, I've done that. I've underperformed on shoots for an any number of shortcomings.So, you know, I can't speak for Matrox, but it seems like he got something, however small, from my viewpoint. If I say that worrying about IQ in cheap cameras might not be as important for someone as 5-axis stabilization or the ability to utilize light creatively, where's the harm in that? It's valid, right? And I'm just an anonymous guy on the internet so how much should anyone value my opinion anyway?An ironic thing too, as I consider that one of the most memorable and appreciative posts your ever made was this one: http://www.eoshd.com/2014/05/kendy-ty-t2i-one-guy-amazing-things-5-year-old-dslr/ I like your web site 'kuz you're kind of salty and have some aggressive opinion, but as long as we're respectful do you really want me to "stop it"? I mean, I know you're here to push gear and keep people excited by the cycle of technology; which I love too. But if some of us share a sentiment that touts production skill (or an overlooked feature of a camera rather than IQ) as a priority, should it really be dismissed and shut down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 2, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 2, 2015 It's off topic!I don't wreak your threads fuzzy with off topic stuff about makeup and drones do I?If you want to start a separate thread be my guest but stop turning every gear discussion thread into one about content and filmmaking skill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 It's off topic! Stop turning every gear discussion thread into one about content and filmmaking skill!I'll be diplomatic and agree that I see where you're coming from, but in my defense I'll also say that it's hard to make a camera recommendation to someone without understanding the content they want to create and the filmmaking skills they already have. I mean, the 5-axis suggestion is valid, right? Your blog posts about 5-axis are the ones that led me to try it in the first place. When I try to support my opinion of that feature with a parallel contention that one might want to reconsider IQ as a priority, and focus on some of the many other aspects of film making, doesn't seem off base to me.But, if you want me to stop it I'll do so. No big deal. I do have some welding to do so I should get off the computer anyway. Cheers, sincerely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 So I watched many videos shot with Sony A6000, and there are the most interesting of them, in terms of showing image performance: It looks that in scenes where subject is the main thing in focus and is shot with shallow depth of field, the sharpness is quite good. Weak codec is starting to show his bad side during wide shots, with deep depth of field, i.e. landscapes for example. The situation is quite similar to 5D Mark III, where image straight out of the camera is soft, but adding ~30% sharpness seems to resolve that issue. I'm wondering if adding sharpness to videos from A6000 will also result in better quality on these type of scenes, what do you think?You can check whole playlist, which I have just made, with interesting A6000 videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHVUf6r981duZQQuWWN1xFpVzH5e0Q73M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noa Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 You are looking at videos after youtube compressed them + you never know at what bitrate they where delivery to youtube so anything that looks like codec break up might be a cause of that. Never judge a camera based on a youtube or vimeo video, always try to get a hold of native footage straight from the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 You are looking at videos after youtube compressed them + you never know at what bitrate they where delivery to youtube so anything that looks like codec break up might be a cause of that. Never judge a camera based on a youtube or vimeo video, always try to get a hold of native footage straight from the card.To be honest, when I'm checking camera image quality, I look on YouTube and Vimeo. Why? Because, in the end, viewers of my videos will see them on YT/Vimeo. I know that image is compressed and sometimes there isn't any info about camera settings used for recording, but with not-so-popular cameras such as A6000 there aren't many good videos to find. I was trying to find interesting movies with D5300, but there aren't many right now. It's a weird thing, considering that D5300 is already one year on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revello Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hi Matrox,User mojo43 seems to be rather skilled with his Nikon d5200 which is almost the same camera as the d5300, only without 60p. He posted this video which serves well if you want to get an idea of what the d5200/d5300 is capable of, image-wise. only the intro was shot with an A7S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noa Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 To be honest, when I'm checking camera image quality, I look on YouTube and Vimeo. Why? Because, in the end, viewers of my videos will see them on YT/Vimeo.I only said that because you where making assumptions on the codec's strength based on a youtube video, these videos can give you a totally wrong impression because of delivery bitrate or user experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hi Matrox,User mojo43 seems to be rather skilled with his Nikon d5200 which is almost the same camera as the d5300, only without 60p. He posted this video which serves well if you want to get an idea of what the d5200/d5300 is capable of, image-wise. only the intro was shot with an A7S.Thanks for sharing it! Indeed, this video is fantastic. Great cinematography and fantastic editing, especially in terms of sound design. I'll try to look on other videos shot with D5200.I only said that because you where making assumptions on the codec's strength based on a youtube video, these videos can give you a totally wrong impression because of delivery bitrate or user experience.Oh, I get it know, you're right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 You can install the 40Mbps hack on the D5200 (64Mbps with beta), and with the Flaat11 profile you can get some impressive results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahlfors Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Sony's AVCHD cameras are great as long as the scenes are such that the codec holds up. With deep focus and lots of motion the footage breaks down to a level where no sharpening / post processing can help it. With my Nex-5 the codec is an unnecessary obstacle that I have to work around all the time. It is just too bad that Sony did not release a firmware update XAVC-S for A6000, that camera could produce so much better video with a better codec! There has been rumored over at sonyalpharumors that there might come an A7000 camera this year, but who knows...My recommendation: try to give D5200 and D5300 some testing in a proper camera shop, see if you can figure out if the film mode workflow is something that could work for you.Otherwise I think some of the Panasonic or other m4/3 cameras will be your best bet. 1tkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matrox Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 You can install the 40Mbps hack on the D5200 (64Mbps with beta), and with the Flaat11 profile you can get some impressive results.Price difference is not that big, so I would rather take D5300. It is always better to work on fully stable software.Sony's AVCHD cameras are great as long as the scenes are such that the codec holds up. With deep focus and lots of motion the footage breaks down to a level where no sharpening / post processing can help it.So basically, can we say that on shallow depth of field scenes codec holds up because - except from main subject - everything else is out of focus and we just cannot see these artifacts, because, well, the image is out of focus?To be honest, I would totally buy A7 or A6000 in a second, but these issues with codec aren't fun. Although, I should also keep in mind that the majority of my work right know are stills. But who knows what time will bring.It is just too bad that Sony did not release a firmware update XAVC-S for A6000, that camera could produce so much better video with a better codec! There has been rumored over at sonyalpharumors that there might come an A7000 camera this year, but who knows...Yeah, they probably abandoned A6000 and are working on A7000 or A6100 with XAVC-S. Shame they didn't update A6000.My recommendation: try to give D5200 and D5300 some testing in a proper camera shop, see if you can figure out if the film mode workflow is something that could work for you.Otherwise I think some of the Panasonic or other m4/3 cameras will be your best bet.I will try D5300 when I get a chance. To be honest - I know what can I expect. Basic settings of shutter, aperture (that needs to be set before entering live view), ISO and white balance. Oh, and sound level before recording. So nothing fancy. Pretty simple things, even without focus peaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utsira Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 The A6000 is very nice with any kind of close-up or medium shot, but it is disappointing for detailed wide-angle landscapes. The AF is also incredible, and is the first AF I've used that I would consider using for video, though I need to experiment with it more.Have you looked at this A6000 channel on Vimeo?https://vimeo.com/channels/853632 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.