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Andrew Reid

Canon hint at mirrorless future “global shutter makes sense”

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Not very exciting I am afraid, not only are they late to the party (is "better late than never" really a reason to be excited?) there is also no chance that Canon will offer anything with specs that will cannibalize C series sales......

So we will get a better late than never Canon mirrorless with underwhelming/outdated specs.

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Not very exciting I am afraid, not only are they late to the party (is "better late than never" really a reason to be excited?) there is also no chance that Canon will offer anything with specs that will cannibalize C series sales......

So we will get a better late than never Canon mirrorless with underwhelming/outdated specs.

​Well let's just wait and see who knows... It's christmas anything could happen :)

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Would be great to have two versions of 5D optimized for sensitivity and megapixels respectively.

​It'd be great to have 2 versions of the 5D optimised for stills and video respectively... under $3000. Like Cinema EOS, but for enthusiasts. Is the market big enough? I think so, otherwise they wouldn't keep making such a big deal of video in the press releases for cameras like the A7S and D750.

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We don't have the user data for the C line but I assume the average C user is a renter, not a buyer. If that assumption is true, they have probably realized that to achieve true volume sales they need to target the "to own" users, and that is squarely $3K DSLR market. That would probably mean that their new EF line of lenses will be tailored for mirrorless DSLR videographers/filmmakers and cost above EF but below Cinema lenses.

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I think lenses are the most important product at Canon. It is where the margin is and the most income overall, they sell a ton of glass. That's the reason they're not in the mirrorless market. It would have shifted the focus of the consumer away from their biggest asset, the EOS range of lenses. Canon will likely make their next mirrorless system another low end affair targeting young people & selfie shooters, it won't be a serious pro system or something to rival Sony or Fuji, more like the Nikon 1 system but with an APS-C sensor.

The "mirrorless" Canon will eventually do will be EF mount with global shutter, just the mirror & mechanical shutter removed. DSLR form factor and ergonomics will remain because their customers rely on the familiarity. The system might even still have optics in there to serve the optical viewfinder. It certainly won't happen until EVFs are way more advanced than currently.

Actually, an EF mount camera with no mirror and global shutter would be just fine by me! The miniaturisation and re-design of cameras you can do with mirrorless can come with a lot of trade offs.

The Cinema EOS line can be considered Canon's first mirrorless cameras. Shame the EVFs are so poor.

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Oh noes, I can already see people announcing messiahs.

Although probably... they're just gonna take the EOS M and give it a little twist?

I'd love to see something from Canon the can keep with up the Sony Alpha-series, be it the A5100/A6000 or A7S and Panasonic with the GH4/GX7/G6/GM1... but I'll only believe it when I see it. Also I feel Olympus and Fujifilm should up their game... they have great cameras for stills, but I'm wondering why they keep their video so 'meh'... they could be THE choice for hybrid shooters. I guess they don't want to be known for good video. As if that would be a bad thing.

And what's up with Canon's normal entry level dSLRs? We've seen the mid-range 70D and the 7DmkII. But basicly since the 650D nothing has changed for entry level cameras. Which itself is hardly different than the 'ancient' 550D/T2i. Actually, what I personally would love to see from Canon is what a 550D meant back in 2010. So if I had something to say at Canon, I'd say:

"Okay guys, so let's have a look at the 700D. What do we like about the 700D? Yes, we'll keep the flippy tilty type touchscreen for sure. What else do we like? Nobody? Wow... okay, that's not much to go on. Ah, John? What was that? Mic-in? Ah, yes! Good point, that's actually pretty nice. But we could work on the pre-amps and adding a jack for monitoring sounds like a bright idea. Okay, now... what would we like to see changed? Ah, yes! Let's just go and lose the mirror and go EVF already! That allows for a smaller design too. But let's keep a bit of grip going on still. Other ideas... Hum, that sensor, it's still that 18MP stuff that was a hit back in 2010, but doesn't keep up with the competition out there. And listen, I don't want to see the 70D's sensor in there, so don't even think about suggesting that. Guys, we have to admit, those D5300, A5100 and A6000 really are on to something. Let's go for something similar to that. 9 AF-points, you're right, that's kind of sad indeed. Let's upgrade the AF system and make it work even better with the STM-lenses we've brought out. Now... video resolution. We aren't allowed to do anything 4K... I know, I know... it's not my call, they said 'go ahead, come up with something, but it can't include 4K'. But... I guess we can give em 1440p? Just a little wiggleroom. At 48p. And then we just go banana on the 1080p. 96 fps should be possible and we need to optimize this guys. If we can't go 2160p, let's just give 'em the greatest 1440p and 1080p they've ever seen. We've got to give them something to work with, so cine profiles, maybe even something along the lines of logarithmic encoding. Peaking, zebras and all that good stuff... obviously! This is starting to look like something guys, what else can we do? Absolutely! One control dial isn't enough, we need two. A thumb dial and a dial for the index finger. Ok. Let's keep it at that for now. Anna. Get crunching those numbers. Can we keep it under a 1000 bucks? We'll continue tomorrow."

I mean... I wouldn't say no to a mirrorless 700D successor a little something like that, even if it's not 4K.

You can even apply the same formula to a 5DmkIII. If Canon had something to counter the A7S, I think that would be gold to a lot of people.

But it's late and I realize I'm rambling... better call it a day. :P

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I would bet that this will be part of the Cinema EOS line, with high end prices to match.  For the prosumer shooter it will be irrelevant as the prices will be to high to justify.  But it's nice to know Canon is finally moving, even if only at the higher end.

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Clearly its about time.  At least they are thinking about it.  Then again they are thinking about the obvious and it does not sound like the market will see anything from them even by next year at least not until late if at all.  Also  Andrew is right on about lenses.  Thats a huge deal for them in that its a very mature customer base they cannot walk away from.  Then again they may need to phase that stuff out over time Im just not sure how.

 

The other point is that whatever they do thats significant (like global shutter) will most certainly not be at the consumer price point.  Global shutter market wide is considered a professional premium feature. It seems to me they would have to have a tectonic shift in their market strategy.  Canon could decide to really shake things up, but they seem far far to conservative for that.

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For some reason I'm not excited about what Canon will have to offer for 2015. I read a rumor of a C300 mk2 enabling 4K internal recording. Who knows, but I am a little curious though to see what they will bring to the table. The A7s, gh4, nx1, etc. are the talk of the town and will probably be that way for a good while.

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While I'm curious as to how Canon solves their "mirrorless problem", I'm not holding my breath for anything particularly interesting. My bets are that we're gonna see EOS 1200D replaced by a cheaper mirrorless model (basically something to compete with Sony A3000). I just don't see them releasing anything that could compete with A7 for example.

And any mirrorless offering from Canon will need to work well with their existing lenses, since this is Canon's legacy and probably the biggest advantage. So EF mount is most likely. Canon already started a new, mirrorless mount, and that kinda looks to be abandoned (or at least not taken seriously). Frankly, EOS M is the problem for Canon. Nobody takes it seriously, and Canon got a bad rep for not being able to introduce a competent mirrorless system. Changing that perception is gonna need some work.

And people seem to expect Canon will go into mirrorless with full force with something different than EOS M ("coz everyone knows it sucks"), but I don't see the point, frankly. Going mirrorless for mirrorless sake makes no sense at all. It might be a way to reduce costs and keep the low-end segment alive for a bit longer, but what else? Compete with GH4, A7S? No way, the cinema line is too precious to cannibalise (or so they might think). Compete on size, weight, mobility? Not with EF mount, and everyone knows EOS M sucks. Full frame mirrorless? Maybe, but wouldn't that just be "hey, look at us, we can make full frame mirrorless camera, too". It would have to be something more than 5D with EVF. Video might be a good reason to go mirrorless, but I bet Canon will want to protect their cinema line by castrating their mirrorless offerings. So maybe they'll get to it from the other end by introducing lower end cinema line cameras?

And the idea of global electronic shutter replacing the mechanical one is interesting, but that's probably years away.

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This would be great if they develop a FF. mirror less global shutter. My worry is they may handicap to not interfere with their C series cameras or sell it at a premium price. 

​I guess you could interpret the lack of innovation in the C line so far (i.e. C100 MkII) as getting the most out of that sensor before changing their camera hierarchy significantly. It's always possible, even with Canon ...

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A fellow DP friend of mine who has a very close relationship with Canon's Cinema division has told me horror stories of R&D / feedback meetings he's had with them regarding their approach to camera design. His first criticism of the prototype C300's was the EVF placement and he got nothing but confused stares. I'm hoping should Canon revamp their line, they start thinking like cameramen and not stills people. I'm hoping they unleash something that wipes the floor of the C designs. Compact, proper multi mount EVF, Iris wheel in the front, etc....

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