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Fx30 or a7IV for Hybrid w/ 1 lens?


SRV1981
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10 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Thanks! The videos I’ve seen def produce better noise/less noise from a7iv. But my bigger concern is being able to take photos from fx30.  Seems limited severely?

 

but today Panasonic announces the s52 and that may blow both out of the water…

Stills are single shot and obviously electronic shutter only. No bursts, no bracketing, nothing. RS will also be an issue for moving subjects, same for banding at some shutter speeds with artificial light. Its baffling why Sony didn't add the same still features its hybrid cameras have, even without a physical shutter. The whole "its a cinema camera" argument is silly because its not more of a cinema camera than FX3 or even the a7IV or a7sIII. The FX30 is a mediocre photo camera at best. Which is a shame since its the first APS-c camera with a new, faster readout sensor, instead of the tired jello vision 24mp sensor they've been rolling out the last decade.

Cheers

Chris

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22 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

The videos I’ve seen def produce better noise/less noise from a7iv.

Are you normalizing for DoF? No, you're not. 

Are you considering which has the more practical second ISO?

22 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

But my bigger concern is being able to take photos from fx30.  Seems limited severely?

Mainly only if you really want that EVF and/or mechanical shutter? Plus backeting / bursts / etc

If so, pick up a second body (the Sony a6000) for your stills for dirt dirt cheap? Depends on what type of photography you're doing, and how seriously. (casual family photographs? The FX30 is "fine". Hard core serious sports photography? Don't even get any Sony! Grab a cheap secondhand Nikon D500 with a Nikon 200-500mm lens, and say the Sigma 50-150mm as your secondary lens for when the action is closer to you. Or just get a Nikon 55-300mm for dirt cheap as your only lens if you don't need more reach than 200mm and shooting outdoors with lots of light)

22 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

but today Panasonic announces the s52 and that may blow both out of the water…

Seems like it!! 

A pity Panasonic screwed up and forgot Timecode, like the S1/S1H/GH5S/GH6 all have!

Honestly (in my very biased opinion), I'd rather that as an even bigger issue with the S5 mk1 than its AF. 

  

13 hours ago, Amazeballs said:

I would go either being used A7S3 as it is still the best for video work or S5mk2 if you wanna be able to shoot hand held withoud the need for a gimbal.

The FX30 beats the a7Smk3 for TC/audio/features/UI as a better camera for video work, cheaper too. 

 

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Are you normalizing for DoF? No, you're not. 

Are you considering which has the more practical second ISO?

Mainly only if you really want that EVF and/or mechanical shutter? Plus backeting / bursts / etc

If so, pick up a second body (the Sony a6000) for your stills for dirt dirt cheap? Depends on what type of photography you're doing, and how seriously. (casual family photographs? The FX30 is "fine". Hard core serious sports photography? Don't even get any Sony! Grab a cheap secondhand Nikon D500 with a Nikon 200-500mm lens, and say the Sigma 50-150mm as your secondary lens for when the action is closer to you. Or just get a Nikon 55-300mm for dirt cheap as your only lens if you don't need more reach than 200mm and shooting outdoors with lots of light)

Seems like it!! 

A pity Panasonic screwed up and forgot Timecode, like the S1/S1H/GH5S/GH6 all have!

Honestly (in my very biased opinion), I'd rather that as an even bigger issue with the S5 mk1 than its AF. 

  

The FX30 beats the a7Smk3 for TC/audio/features/UI as a better camera for video work, cheaper too. 

 

Thanks for input. Curious:

 

1. why does DOF matter ? Doesn’t it just matter what we’re seeing on the screen? Every test I’ve seen, fx30 shows more static noise on the screen than a7iv and this seems to be the unanimous consensus by testers/users. 
 

2. precisely want a hybrid to not have 2 cameras. Fx30 may be fine for photo and I’ll dig more into it. Thanks. 
 

3. after seeing the clips today. S5II seems better for hybrid use than fx30 and a7iv. Have you seen them? Time code is a non-issue for me.  Image “feel” and color SOOC matter most to me for video and photo secondary. 

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1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

1. why does DOF matter ? Doesn’t it just matter what we’re seeing on the screen? Every test I’ve seen, fx30 shows more static noise on the screen than a7iv and this seems to be the unanimous consensus by testers/users. 

Just like you pick the appropriate FoV to tell the story that needs to be told for that shot, you also need to pick the appropriate DoF that matches what the film needs. 

Once you've got that equal for both, then compared to the FX30 any FF camera is going to be at a one stop disadvantage (all else being equal). 

The other alternative is ignore the resulting DoF difference between the two cameras, make the 1st AC hate you, make the Art and Location Departments' work go to waste, and let the actors be lost in the bland blurred space they're in. 

Moral of the story is: you can't only look at a FF cameras' strengths while totally ignoring their handicaps. 

To make it fair comparison when discussing the noise performance that has to be taken into account. 

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

2. precisely want a hybrid to not have 2 cameras. Fx30 may be fine for photo and I’ll dig more into it. Thanks. 
 

3. after seeing the clips today. S5II seems better for hybrid use than fx30 and a7iv. Have you seen them? Time code is a non-issue for me.  Image “feel” and color SOOC matter most to me for video and photo secondary. 

If you don't need to work with other people (i.e. Sony shooters!), and don't need TC (I work with that on basically every shoot! Very very very rare I don't), then it sounds like the S5mk2 is the perfect camera to shoot with for you!

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Just like you pick the appropriate FoV to tell the story that needs to be told for that shot, you also need to pick the appropriate DoF that matches what the film needs. 

Once you've got that equal for both, then compared to the FX30 any FF camera is going to be at a one stop disadvantage (all else being equal). 

The other alternative is ignore the resulting DoF difference between the two cameras, make the 1st AC hate you, make the Art and Location Departments' work go to waste, and let the actors be lost in the bland blurred space they're in. 

Moral of the story is: you can't only look at a FF cameras' strengths while totally ignoring their handicaps. 

To make it fair comparison when discussing the noise performance that has to be taken into account. 

If you don't need to work with other people (i.e. Sony shooters!), and don't need TC (I work with that on basically every shoot! Very very very rare I don't), then it sounds like the S5mk2 is the perfect camera to shoot with for you!

Thanks!! So yes I’m the latter - the much hated “prosumer” using it for his profession but isn’t related to paid video work (education, coaching, personal work - filming myself interviewing people, myself, and athletes as well as family and friends but desires high quality in sub-$5k hybrid cameras) 

 

so that being said, what’s the thoughts on why S5II VS a7iv ?

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30 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

so that being said, what’s the thoughts on why S5II VS a7iv ?

What about it? It isn't even a close contest. Why are you comparing them? Seems rather unfair to the Sony. Couldn't you be kinder to Sony and say ask for a S5mk2 vs FX30 comparison instead? 

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

The FX30 beats the a7Smk3 for TC/audio/features/UI as a better camera for video work, cheaper too. 

 

Disagree with this, the PASM dial with 3 custom settings and the vast amount of customization with all the buttons and extra command dials the FX lacks, make the hybrids like the a7sIII and a7IV much easier to shoot with. I bounce between 24/60/120p on C1/2/3 and adjust everything without using the menus. The a7IV is even better since you can bounce between photo/video/S&Q with the switch under the PASM dial. My menu and the Fn menu put all your settings anywhere you want them. Plus they have EVF's which are far better than the crappy LCD's Sony puts on its cameras. 

The XLR adapters give you identical audio options and many don't use/need timecode.

Plus the a7's are far better photo cameras if you want that versatility.

But most importantly, the a7sIII/a7IV have a better image. I like the concept of the FX30, but its execution is underwhelming IMO. And as a hybrid it really falls short.

Lots of great options these days.

Cheers

Chris

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8 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Well as stated for my needs I was considering it before the S5II was announced. So they’re my two choices currently. 

If you're starting from scratch, I can't think of any reason why I'd go for the a7mk4 over the S5mk2

(maybe there is some weird hyper niche reason "why", like maybe there has never been a underwater deep diving case made the S5 and exists instead for the a7mk4?? But I doubt that reason exists)

  

5 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

make the hybrids like the a7sIII and a7IV much easier to shoot with

The FX3/FX30 have a better UI for video shooting with, it's purpose built around that. And has the edge in image quality too. Plus has TC, that the a7 & a7S series cameras lack. 

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54 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 

The FX3/FX30 have a better UI for video shooting with, it's purpose built around that. And has the edge in image quality too. Plus has TC, that the a7 & a7S series cameras lack. 

Guess we have different view on "better IQ", I'll take more DR, better highlight rolloff, less noise and less RS - the a7sIII. But I'll still take more RS with the a7IV over the FX30 because the rest of the image is better. Once you get above the second base ISO on the FX30, the image goes to shit. Even at the base ISO's skin tones look blotchy in many of the videos I've seen. Vomit.

Cheers

Chris

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FX30: sharper image, a second ISO that's actually more useful in practical use, and once you equalize for DoF then the "advantage" for FF with noise diminishes. 

FX3: same sensor as the a7Smk3, but with more recording options. 

Anyway, we're splitting hairs here. 

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4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

FX30: sharper image, a second ISO that's actually more useful in practical use, and once you equalize for DoF then the "advantage" for FF with noise diminishes. 

FX3: same sensor as the a7Smk3, but with more recording options. 

Anyway, we're splitting hairs here. 

The sharpness difference compared to the a7IV is minimal. DR difference is noticeable. Def splitting hairs, but the a7IV has a lower second ISO and still maintains more than a stop advantage at any ISO. No need to equalize anything, there is a clear advantage with the FF (noise pun intended) and you can still go s35 if you want.

The FX3 has the same recording options as the a7sIII, identical frame rates and bitrates.

Plus the op is looking for a hybrid to shoot photos, the FX30 is a mediocre stills camera at best. IMO its an odd recommendation that really doesn't fit the bill.

Cheers

Chris

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If you want a hybrid camera, id skip the FX30. I love it as a video camera but wouldn't want it to be my only camera if I needed stills as well. 

If you take video seriously and don't really need stills, the FX30 would be my pick even over the newly announced S5II....and A7IV.

I'd also be very careful of taking advice from anyone that says the FX30's image quality is 'vomit'. This obviously indicates they have no idea what they are doing.

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3 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

If you want a hybrid camera, id skip the FX30. I love it as a video camera but wouldn't want it to be my only camera if I needed stills as well. 

If you take video seriously and don't really need stills, the FX30 would be my pick even over the newly announced S5II....and A7IV.

I'd also be very careful of taking advice from anyone that says the FX30's image quality is 'vomit'. This obviously indicates they have no idea what they are doing.

video and photo

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I think the "s35 is just as good once you adjust for DOF equivalence" argument is a bit weak against the Panny S's or Sony A74, because those all have APS-C modes which also work great. Actually they have faster readouts than the FX30- my S1 is about 11ms in APS-C, which is actually how I shoot 90% of the time these days.

Add the XLR box to these cameras and the audio is equivalent. More flexible actually, as you can get an extender cable and have more options for mounting the box, whereas the FX3/30 unit is married to its handle, which is married to the hotshoe.

Timecode, yes the FX's do do that better. I have doubts as to how many people need/use that though.

Sony's rear screens are awful. One of the most frustrating parts of my A7III. I would have to have an external monitor, and then there goes the compact form factor.

And maybe it's the latent photographer in me, but I shoot a lot with the EVF. A camera without one would not be nearly as useful for me.

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On 1/5/2023 at 5:35 PM, A_Urquhart said:

If you want a hybrid camera, id skip the FX30. I love it as a video camera but wouldn't want it to be my only camera if I needed stills as well. 

If you take video seriously and don't really need stills, the FX30 would be my pick even over the newly announced S5II....and A7IV.

I'd also be very careful of taking advice from anyone that says the FX30's image quality is 'vomit'. This obviously indicates they have no idea what they are doing.

Nah I’m good, skin tones just do not look good above 1600 or so. That infamous Sony blotchy-ness rears its ugly head. Noise is terrible too compared to the a7IV. So yes weird color shifts on someone’s face to me is vomit. YMMV.

But this is a silly circle jerk since the OP wants something for photos. An ES only camera, without a stacked sensor or an EVF, that can only do a single shot like it’s 1953 instead of 2023, is just a poor recommendation. As a one camera/lens solution they’re looking for - the superior DR and photo capabilities makes a FF hybrid like the a7IV an infinitely better choice. 

And I actually like the FX30, even thought about getting one as a b/c cam, but it won’t cost much more to get better FF options like a minty used a7IV or a7sIII. 

cheers

chris

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1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

Nah I’m good, skin tones just do not look good above 1600 or so. That infamous Sony blotchy-ness rears its ugly head. Noise is terrible too compared to the a7IV. So yes weird color shifts on someone’s face to me is vomit. YMMV.

But this is a silly circle jerk since the OP wants something for photos. An ES only camera, without a stacked sensor or an EVF, that can only do a single shot like it’s 1953 instead of 2023, is just a poor recommendation. As a one camera/lens solution they’re looking for - the superior DR and photo capabilities makes a FF hybrid like the a7IV an infinitely better choice. 

And I actually like the FX30, even thought about getting one as a b/c cam, but it won’t cost much more to get better FF options like a minty used a7IV or a7sIII. 

cheers

chris

Cool story bro. If you can't get images out of the FX30 that don't make you want to vomit, that's user error. You're doing something very wrong.

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