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Timo Hurtig

GH4 Noise test

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Hey there,

 

I did a quick noise test with the GH4 and I'm really concerned about the bad noise behavior of this camera. 

Not sure if it's a general issue or if it's maybe my camera only. I'm really wondering as the camera has noise issues filming in ISO200 which I believe can't be correct so I assume my GH4 has a faulty sensor. 

 

This is the video: 

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Best,

Timo

 

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@Timo I don't think your sensor is faulty. I'm also seeing way more noise with the GH4, even with NR set at 0, than with NR on my GH3 set at -5, and I always shoot at ISO 200. I'm not sure why that is. Of course, when my videos are uploaded to YouTube, the noise problem looks much worse than it actually is. I do think the factory settings in the picture profile of the GH3 are more aggressive than the GH4 - for example, even with in-camera sharpening at minimum on the GH3, I don't need to add any sharpening in post, whereas with the GH4, it needs a little bit. Since you mentioned the problem, I went ahead and looked at my most recent video and decided next time, I'll try shooting with NR set a little higher than the factory setting and see if that helps any. 

 

Could you share your settings with us? Was NR set at 0? Which picture profile are you using? etc.

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Thanks! I posted the settings to the Vimeo description. The clip was filmed with the following settings:

 

Filmed in C4K 24p - Edited on a 1080 timeline
Picture style neutral
Master Pedestal = 0
i.Dynamic + i.Resolution = off
Luminance Level = 16-235
Highlight Shadow = 0/0
Lens = Walimex 35 1.4
 
Even if NR set to "0" here, there is a little noise. I discovered the same issue filming in CineLike V - James Miller settings. 
 
Thanks!

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So probably basically the same settings I'm using. Neutral, with most of the settings set from -2 to -4. I'm sure your camera isn't defective. On the other hand, what's with the noise we're experiencing? Do you own a GH3? I found the noise levels much lower, but the colors of the GH4 sensor are much improved. I find the noise especially surprising, since I kind of expected downscaling from 4K to reduce stuff like noise and digital artifacting. On the plus side, virtually no aliasing or moire, at least nowhere near as bad as the GH3.

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I'm a little surprised nobody else has responded to this topic. Here's a test clip I made with basically identical settings to Timo's. I did very little correction in post. NR in camera was set to 0, factory setting, yet large amounts of noise are plainly visible in the background, especially in the dark trees behind the subjects. When re-examining my clips from the GH3 shot at ISO 200, the grain is much finer and less noticeable.

 

http://jonpais.wordpress.com/2014/07/20/lumix-gh4-test-faces-ii/

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Maybe it's not issue for the other GH4 owners. I know that the GH4 has noise issues and that it's totally ok for cameras in that price range. But I'm wondering if it's anyhow possible to eliminate noise when filming in ISO200. Just compared some footage I shot with my Canon 60D in ISO160 and comparing the FHD footage with the FHD footage from the GH4, the Canon 60D has less noise than the Panasonic. This it what grinds my gears. 

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@Germy1979 I hadn't heard of those reports before. After purchasing the camera however, I did see a comparison between an Olympus, and the Panasonic looked horrid in the stills, especially at higher ISOs, but even at ISO 200 it wasn't any great shakes. Guess I'll have to live with it. 

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I´ve recently got my GH4 and I had a shock in the first few days, tons of noise from 200 to 3200 ISO.

But, after a few days of experimentation and testing, I´m just getting in love with my camera.

What I´ve found so far is, every situation (specially low light) needs a specific tweaking to get a finer grain and lower noise.

Also, my Leica 25mm 1.4 gives me much better results than the kit lenses, even using the same f stop for both.

 

I´ve found this video and got really impressed with the quality. The guy used a tweaked cine D profile, a chinese focal reducer and some nice glass. It has compression (vimeo), but it´s clear for me how much detail it is resolved under low lighting.

 

 

Anyway, this camera need fast lenses, that´s for sure. 

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Maybe it's not issue for the other GH4 owners. I know that the GH4 has noise issues and that it's totally ok for cameras in that price range. But I'm wondering if it's anyhow possible to eliminate noise when filming in ISO200. Just compared some footage I shot with my Canon 60D in ISO160 and comparing the FHD footage with the FHD footage from the GH4, the Canon 60D has less noise than the Panasonic. This it what grinds my gears. 

http://bkmeditor.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/panasonic-gh4-iso-noise-tests/

 

Hey, check this out! Recent noise testing as of July 16th by this blogger who also feared he had a buggy sensor. I'm unfamiliar with his work but it looks to be a good read as he has some very detailed comparisons that suggest a different alternative. He actually advises users to steer away from raising the Master Pedestal. Hopefully, Andrew Reid can chime in and explain these results since a higher Master Pedestal is a more popular setting. I plan to go through it more in my free time later. Let us know if you come up with anything & good luck!!

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Interesting tests…still do not seem to be definitive…I'm thinking extremely fast glass or bust for low light is the answer for the GH4.

 

Still waiting for someone/anyone to explain this to me: (which is right up there with the Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster as great mysteries of the world)::

 

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Interesting tests…still do not seem to be definitive…I'm thinking extremely fast glass or bust for low light is the answer for the GH4.

 

Still waiting for someone/anyone to explain this to me: (which is right up there with the Yeti and the Loch Ness Monster as great mysteries of the world)::

 Given the aliasing, it wasn't shot in 4K. Regarding noise, perhaps it's not really that dark, ISO wasn't very high, and perhaps Neat Video or similar was used.

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I'm thinking the aliasing was due to the editing programming interpreting the footage as interlaced instead of progressive. The noise is very fine so it was probably shot in 4k and i don't think any noise reduction was used.


I want to say he used very fast glass but you never see anything out of focus. And if it was any brighter outside I would think the windows would blow out way more.

So yeh... Mystery.

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jcs -

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you. This video is very, very sharp, so there is no doubt in my mind it was in 4K downrez. Also, the guy who shot it is an ego maniac, which means he would only use the best tools available to enable his ego and his talent. 

 

Growing up in a deeply religious Catholic family, I can tell you first hand that all Catholic churches are kept very, very dark (on purpose) at all times. Its part of their culture and their theme..dark, brooding, mysterious.

 

Inazuma -

 

I agree with you. The dp somehow was able to nail the correct settings in his camera. Maybe he used neat video, but without a doubt extremely fast glass- stopped down. At the end of the day he's enjoyed all the talk about his vid (look at me) but he refuses to answer any questions from anyone. Why? Who knows.

 

Maybe it was a happy accident, but I don't think so. The dude knows what he's doing.

 

Time to sick the black cat on his truculent ass :P

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lafilm- 4K downsampled to 1080p will effectively be low-pass filtered (by most modern NLEs) and have very little aliasing. While it's possible that its 4K scaled down to 1080p and way over-sharpened, the aliasing looks like the 1080p from the GH4. A highly aliased image will artificially appear extra sharp.

 

Most high-frequency noise will get removed by the relatively low bitrate of H.264 online.

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Anthony Teror's Dark Church is really a wonder: in fact, all of his videos are worth watching. Not that I'll ever be able to shoot like him, but I have definitely got to get off my butt and buy some fast glass. I'm also inclined to believe he's shooting 4K using fast glass stopped down, in a very dimly lit church. It looks like he was or still is a Canon user, so isn't it likely he's using Canon glass? Although the video looks awesome, it's impossible for me to judge the noise on Vimeo, since I'm seeing all kinds of swimming dots in the shadows, not that it's distracting or anything. The original clip must be pristine. Also, judging by the number of videos he has uploaded, he's probably too busy shooting to spend time fielding comments on Vimeo.

Edit: since reading jcs's post above, now I'm not so sure about anything! But why on earth would anyone shoot 1080p rather than 4K for that shoot? It does appear that quite a bit of sharpening was added in post. Again, I can't agree though that uploading to Vimeo hides noise - on the contrary, I find my videos look noisier when uploaded.

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