TomTheDP Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 14 hours ago, kye said: When did I state that YT doesn't degrade the image capture? Were you saying that downsampled 4k to HD uploaded to YouTube in HD will look better than a 1080p sensor shooting 1080p video uploaded to YouTube in HD? I'd test that out but I don't have any working SD cards for my BM micro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dancing Babamef Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I was hyperbolizing it a bit but what I said is true to an extent. 4K to 1080p is what you do when you are playing the file locally but uploading to Youtube it's better to leave it as 4K and add a slight NR to it. 16 hours ago, kye said: My comments are about resolution, in the context of downsampling, not bitrate. Yes, but if your comments about downsampling were true, then it wouldn't matter if God himself uploaded a video to YT, it would still be........ But, it's not, and therefore, it isn't. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 16 minutes ago, The Dancing Babamef said: I was hyperbolizing it a bit but what I said is true to an extent. 4K to 1080p is what you do when you are playing the file locally but uploading to Youtube it's better to leave it as 4K and add a slight NR to it. Let's say you are recording in camera, downsampling to HD from 4k in camera, like the original poster did. Even though your file is natively HD I still think rendering it in 4k, which makes YouTube upload it in 4k will give you a better result. The footage itself won't look any sharper, but the extra 40mbps YouTube gives 4k makes a difference. I am not saying you disagree, just clarifying my thoughts/experiences with YouTube. my 2 cents The Dancing Babamef 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 1 hour ago, TomTheDP said: Let's say you are recording in camera, downsampling to HD from 4k in camera, like the original poster did. Even though your file is natively HD I still think rendering it in 4k, which makes YouTube upload it in 4k will give you a better result. The footage itself won't look any sharper, but the extra 40mbps YouTube gives 4k makes a difference. I am not saying you disagree, just clarifying my thoughts/experiences with YouTube. my 2 cents I wholeheartedly agree, and I wish I had done that with my original post. My original point was that natively, when looking at the RAW files, downsampled 1080p doesn't look much softer than native 4k. The difference is small enough not to matter unless viewed side-by-side. The difference is small, and as a result one can use a tiny Atomos Ninja Star with a Nikon Z6 to gain 10 bit log without needing a large bulky external recorder/monitor, thus making the Z6/Star combination very compelling given the price. TomTheDP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, FHDcrew said: I wholeheartedly agree, and I wish I had done that with my original post. My original point was that natively, when looking at the RAW files, downsampled 1080p doesn't look much softer than native 4k. The difference is small enough not to matter unless viewed side-by-side. The difference is small, and as a result one can use a tiny Atomos Ninja Star with a Nikon Z6 to gain 10 bit log without needing a large bulky external recorder/monitor, thus making the Z6/Star combination very compelling given the price. I agree, it is a great setup. FHDcrew 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 8 hours ago, TomTheDP said: Were you saying that downsampled 4k to HD uploaded to YouTube in HD will look better than a 1080p sensor shooting 1080p video uploaded to YouTube in HD? I'd test that out but I don't have any working SD cards for my BM micro. The original claim by @The Dancing Babamef was.... On 10/30/2022 at 5:54 PM, The Dancing Babamef said: People. When uploading to Youtube, ignore all the downsampling crap. It only applies if you're not compressing the footage again and again. It sounds good on paper but even scaling 1080p to 4K and then watching that "1080p" as a 4K video on youtube gives it a higher visual quality. All the pixel binning and noise reduction gets washed away because the compression that youtube uses makes the fine detail into mush anyway. My reply was simply that YouTube is good enough to show the difference between: Resolution X sensor -> Resolution X timeline -> Resolution X YT upload Resolution >X sensor -> Resolution X timeline -> Resolution X YT upload It doesn't matter if X = 4K or 1080p, YT quality on both of them is enough to see differences. I think people form the opinion that YT is completely useless and don't think it can do anything because of the way it handles grain (i.e. a bloodbath) and the high quantity of very low quality uploads where the footage has been crunched way before it made it to YT. I'm yet to understand what makes a YT upload look worse or better, but there is definitely a lot of variation across different channels / videos. In terms of a 4K sensor -> 1080p timeline -> 4K export-> 4K upload, that can benefit hugely from a little bit of sharpening. Most of the people that think that 1080p is completely inferior to 4K are seeing the extra YT bitrate from the 4K YT stream, or are simply looking at sharpness, which is easily compensated for in grading. TomTheDP and The Dancing Babamef 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 7 hours ago, The Dancing Babamef said: I was hyperbolizing it a bit but what I said is true to an extent. 4K to 1080p is what you do when you are playing the file locally but uploading to Youtube it's better to leave it as 4K and add a slight NR to it. Unless you have a reason to have part of your signal path in 1080p. I shoot GH5 using the 1080p 200Mbps ALL-I mode so that I can edit in 1080p smoothly on my MBP laptop without rendering proxies. Before I settled on that workflow I did comparisons between the 5K h265 open gate Long-GOP mode, the 4K h264 Long-GOP mode, and the 1080p ALL-I mode, using my sharpest lens, stopped down, on a subject directly lit with harsh lighting and lots of fine detail, and then pixel peed my heart out trying to see differences. They were there, but WOW did you really have to look HARD to find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 12 minutes ago, kye said: They were there, but WOW did you really have to look HARD to find them. Exactly! The differences are tiny. Especially if you view the footage at 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamplayhouse Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Can't find a used Ninja Star anywhere. Would the Ninja 2 also output 10 bit from the Nikon Z6? Any other cheaper recorders than the Atomos Ninja V that output 10 bit 422 on the Z6?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 20 minutes ago, dreamplayhouse said: Can't find a used Ninja Star anywhere. Would the Ninja 2 also output 10 bit from the Nikon Z6? Any other cheaper recorders than the Atomos Ninja V that output 10 bit 422 on the Z6?? Ninja 2 should do it. It's going to be bigger and heavier, but you can get the identical 1080p image. Just set record settings to 4k on the Z6; then go into HDMI settings, set output to 10 bit and resolution to 1080p. Then the downsampling is activated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 Actually Ninja 2 does not seem terribly-sized, an interesting option! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ya fue Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 I can't Z-Log in my Nikon D800 (Im sorry, im from Argentina and not speak English) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 I wanted to share this recent project with you guys! Also I guess this counts as a face reveal lol. Shot entirely on a Nikon Z6 with the Tamron SP 45mm 1.8! NLOG graded in Davinci Resolve. Some footage was shot using the Ninja Star, others the Ninja V. Most of the footage was shot using the oversampled 1080p mode I spoke about earlier in this thread; the AROLL was definately shot in this mode. Just wanted to share, because one I want to share some of my work and what I do here, and two I wanted to give a good example of what this camera can do in 2023! PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 Dang it I thought I upscaled this to 4k. I'm reuploading but scaled up to 4k for the better YouTube bitrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 Here is the 4k upload 🙂 TomTheDP, PannySVHS and mercer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Looks really good @FHDcrew PannySVHS and FHDcrew 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 1 hour ago, TomTheDP said: Looks really good @FHDcrew Appreciate it! Anything you would recommend regarding improvements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 19 hours ago, FHDcrew said: Appreciate it! Anything you would recommend regarding improvements? I don't know man I think it looks great. Looks very organic and the colors look vibrant. I think it is a winning combination. PannySVHS and FHDcrew 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Pro job! Would love some z6 8bit stuff in the good old artsy fartsy gh2 style. It's always easier for me to ask than going out and film and edit some myself:) @FHDcrew FHDcrew 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FHDcrew Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 hour ago, PannySVHS said: Pro job! Would love some z6 8bit stuff in the good old artsy fartsy gh2 style. It's always easier for me to ask than going out and film and edit some myself:) @FHDcrew Yeah just filmed some z6 8 bit and it has more flexibility than one would respect. For 8-bit lately I’ve actually done a CST to Arri LogC and then applied the Arri Rec709 LUT. Liking the results, and the camera can be had for like $850 if you look hard enough 😮 PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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