Django Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 Yeah that doesn't sound right. Never heard of a camera having same noise levels at higher base ISO either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 19 hours ago, A_Urquhart said: Doesn't quite work that way. There are plenty of times when shooting with the FX6 that I've found I need more ISO than 800 but really don't need 12,800. 12800 is not a native ISO on the FX6 sensor and there is noise. FX6 is Dual Base ISO...not dual native ISO. A lot of the times, I don't want to shoot at 12800 and use ND when what I really need is an ISO of around 3200. For professional use, the closer native ISO's of the FX30 are far more usable. Sure, if you want to shoot by the light of the moon just because you can, then go for it but usually there is no need. Saying that, the FX30 looks quite usable at 12,800 especially with a bit of noise reduction in post. Apparently the FX30 is doing less in camera noise reduction too than the FX3/a7Smk3. (which is what some people actually want) Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 7 hours ago, IronFilm said: Apparently the FX30 is doing less in camera noise reduction too than the FX3/a7Smk3. (which is what some people actually want) That's very interesting. One thing that I've noticed is that there is very little colourist content available (for free and even in the paid stuff I've seen) discussing sharpening techniques or discussing NR techniques. Yet, my personal experience with both of these topics (as well as seeing the brief mentions they get occasionally) suggests that they're hugely important to building a look and also quite a deep subject. I've done comparisons myself of comparing different sharpening methods (IIRC Resolve has at least three, not counting the manual techniques you can do with various combinations of nodes) and they are all different. I keep meaning to do a deep dive into them, sharing it with the group as I go for discussion and feedback, but just haven't gotten the motivation up for it. In my previous attempts to grade RAW footage I've struggled to get the results I was looking for. Even when the subject gets mentioned on the colourist forums the discussion doesn't seem to go into that much detail. I wonder if it's one of those subjects where the colourists all just judge it by eye and therefore think it's obvious and not worth talking about. Or, it's something that directors/producers/etc have strong opinions on and they just look to them for guidance and therefore don't feel it's worth discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 7 hours ago, IronFilm said: Apparently the FX30 is doing less in camera noise reduction too than the FX3/a7Smk3. (which is what some people actually want) In addition to my previous post above, I think the optimum amount of processing is having more NR/sharpening than RAW has, and less than the GH5 has. If the FX30 is closer to that mid-point then that's another plus for the camera. Despite not liking Sony all that much (both their company behaviour as well as the design of their cameras) and not wanting to move from MFT to anything but FF, the FX30 has an appeal that I can't understand. Is there some sort of X-factor for this camera? or is it just me? Emanuel and PannySVHS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, kye said: Is there some sort of X-factor for this camera? or is it just me? Quiet possibly. Gerald Undone has done the comparision for noice reduction and the FX30 had performed nice grain in that test, compared to the mushyness of the FF FX3. Battery life around 90min of video shooting, going by the tests on youtube, which puts it in GH6 territory. 120p UHD has MFT width, though not oversampled like GH6. It seems kinda like a GH6 with different colour science, no anamporphic modes, but similar video quality and possibly better lowlight, though colour integrety of the GH6 in lowlight and Dual Gain is pretty amazing. Going by the tests, that is.:) From my own experience, liking the 8bit HD FS700 image wise, the FX30 would be a fun camera indeed. If it had mechanical shutter it would be indeed an X factor. Rolling shutter of around 15ms is good enough for me for video, coming from filming with similar readouts from a rented GH5 and lately from my own BMMCC. The rolling shutter of 22ms from my S1 in FF mode would be my personal limit though. I shot some lovely handheld stuff with my G6 which has a 25ms+ RS, so all with a grain of salt. Love the body design too, more than the bulky GH6. So yes, some X factor definately. But image quality has to be shown. Codec quality also. Both fantastic on the GH6. So we will see.🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 34 minutes ago, PannySVHS said: If it had mechanical shutter it would be indeed an X factor That and a rear tilt screen...which is why for me, the XH2S has to 'win', - it has at least 1 of my 2 'missing' features. But otherwise, I think it's pretty fabulous in terms of looks & form factor and has a zero compromise lens line up for me; Tamron; 20-40mm f2.8, 17-70mm f2.8 (or 28-75), 35-150mm f2/2.8 The above lenses at 1.5x crop factor are PERFECT for my needs. So maybe why not just go Sony you might say... As a hybrid shooter, I'm not fully convinced by Sony for stills... There's something about the colour that even with recent models, is still slightly off for me. PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 22 hours ago, kye said: Despite not liking Sony all that much (both their company behaviour as well as the design of their cameras) and not wanting to move from MFT to anything but FF, the FX30 has an appeal that I can't understand. Adapt your MFT manual lenses to E Mount perhaps? 21 hours ago, PannySVHS said: Quiet possibly. Gerald Undone has done the comparision for noice reduction and the FX30 had performed nice grain in that test, compared to the mushyness of the FF FX3. Helped thanks to much greater resolution of the FX30 sensor vs the low resolution FX3 sensor. 21 hours ago, PannySVHS said: Battery life around 90min of video shooting, going by the tests on youtube, which puts it in GH6 territory. Another reason to get the FX30 vs the FX3: The FX30 has much better battery life than the FX3! 21 hours ago, PannySVHS said: 120p UHD has MFT width Yup, people complain about that crop but just put a 7.5mm lens on it and you've got your wiiiiide angle sorted! It really isn't the big deal people make it out to be. Venus Optics Laowa Zero-D S35 7.5mm T/2.9 Cine Lens for Sony E Mount: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1695493-REG/venus_optics_ve7529se_laowa_7_5mm_t_2_9_zero_d.html Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 10 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Adapt your MFT manual lenses to E Mount perhaps? Helped thanks to much greater resolution of the FX30 sensor vs the low resolution FX3 sensor. Another reason to get the FX30 vs the FX3: The FX30 has much better battery life than the FX3! Yup, people complain about that crop but just put a 7.5mm lens on it and you've got your wiiiiide angle sorted! It really isn't the big deal people make it out to be. Venus Optics Laowa Zero-D S35 7.5mm T/2.9 Cine Lens for Sony E Mount: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1695493-REG/venus_optics_ve7529se_laowa_7_5mm_t_2_9_zero_d.html Or the Meike 10mm f/2 APS-C for E Mount at only $449: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1725738-REG/meike_mk_1020cfmf_e_10mm_f_2_0_aps_c_manual.html Or get AF with the Sony 11mm f/1.8 Lens: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1709231-REG/sony_e_11mm_f_1_8_lens.html Or go adapt MFT lenses to E Mount, with the super super cheap SLR Magic 8mm f4 for only US$149! (I've got this lens myself) https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1322738-REG/slr_magic_slr8m4_8mm_f_4_lens.html 21 hours ago, PannySVHS said: From my own experience, liking the 8bit HD FS700 image wise, the FX30 would be a fun camera indeed. The image quality would be such a massive leap up for you from a FS700! Heck, even for me with the FS7, the FX30 would be an improvement. (well, in terms of picture, of course a move backwards in lots of other areas such as SDI/Genlock/NDs/EVF/etc) 21 hours ago, PannySVHS said: Rolling shutter of around 15ms is good enough for me for video, coming from filming with similar readouts from a rented GH5 and lately from my own BMMCC. The rolling shutter of 22ms from my S1 in FF mode would be my personal limit though. I shot some lovely handheld stuff with my G6 which has a 25ms+ RS, so all with a grain of salt. Love the body design too, more than the bulky GH6. So yes, some X factor definately. Exactly, people in the comments online I have seen hating upon the FX30 for its rolling shutter performance simply because the FX30 isn't the best ever possible they've seen, yet in reality vs the comparable competition then the FX30's rolling shutter performances holds up very well! Emanuel and PannySVHS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 20 hours ago, MrSMW said: But otherwise, I think it's pretty fabulous in terms of looks & form factor and has a zero compromise lens line up for me; Tamron; 20-40mm f2.8, 17-70mm f2.8 (or 28-75), 35-150mm f2/2.8 The above lenses at 1.5x crop factor are PERFECT for my needs. You'd take the Tamron 20-40mm f/2.8 over the Tamron 11-20mm f/2.8? You don't ever need anything wider than 17mm? Do the Tokina / Viltrox / Sigma sets of fast f1.2/f1.4 primes for APS-C appeal to you? They're very affordable! https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?filters=fct_a_focus-type_5738%3Aautofocus%2Cfct_brand_name%3Atokina%2Cfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%3Aaps-c-lenses%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Asony-e-mount%2Cfct_zooms-primes_5903%3Aprime-lenses https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1723065-REG/tokina_szmf33_fe_sz_33mm_f_1_2_mf.html (I'm guessing more are coming soon? To fill out the set?) https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?sort=PRICE_LOW_TO_HIGH&filters=fct_a_focus-type_5738%3Aautofocus%2Cfct_brand_name%3Asigma%2Cfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%3Aaps-c-lenses%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Asony-e-mount%2Cfct_zooms-primes_5903%3Aprime-lenses https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?sort=PRICE_LOW_TO_HIGH&filters=fct_a_focus-type_5738%3Aautofocus%2Cfct_brand_name%3Aviltrox%2Cfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%3Aaps-c-lenses%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Asony-e-mount%2Cfct_zooms-primes_5903%3Aprime-lenses (I feel like Viltrox has the best range of AF APS-C primes for Sony E Mount, unless splurging out for the Sony branded lenses) Or TTArtisan which has lots of fast primes for Sony APS-C that are sub $100! 😮 (although, of course, they're only manual focus) https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?sort=PRICE_LOW_TO_HIGH&filters=fct_a_focus-type_5738%3Amanual-focus-only%2Cfct_brand_name%3Attartisan%2Cfct_lens-format-coverage_3332%3Aaps-c-lenses%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Asony-e-mount%2Cfct_zooms-primes_5903%3Aprime-lenses 21 hours ago, PannySVHS said: 120p UHD has MFT width, oh just realized there is a nifty Meike 12mm f/2 Lens for Sony E at only $199! Of course with a MFT level "crop" in 120fps UHD, that's no longer ultrawide, but it is still a nifty wide angle lens with a fast f2 aperture for very little money! https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1714074-REG/meike_mk_1220cfmf_e_12mm_f_2_0_aps_c_manual.html (or go 2mm wider for more than double the cost! With the Meike 10mm f/2) Emanuel and A_Urquhart 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 2 hours ago, IronFilm said: You'd take the Tamron 20-40mm f/2.8 over the Tamron 11-20mm f/2.8? You don't ever need anything wider than 17mm? Do the Tokina / Viltrox / Sigma sets of fast f1.2/f1.4 primes for APS-C appeal to you? They're very affordable! Well I am torn between primes and zooms actually… On one hand, I am looking at 3 bodies + 3 zooms and never having to change a lens. But on the other, 3 bodies plus 3 primes plus 3 zooms with arguably better resolution from those primes and not arguable better low light…but the trade off is having to cart around those 3 extra lenses and change them. Otherwise nah, not a wide angle guy at all, especially for video. It’s very rare I have any need to film in FF terms wider than 30mm and my principle range is 50-150. Even for stills, anything wider than 20mm is just too wide for my tastes and I rarely shoot wider than 28mm. So yes, 20-40mm over 11-20mm pretty much all day long! I’m still very much on the fence over committing to next years kit…which will then be the next 3 years minimum which is why I am still hesitating. I’m not going to continue with my L Mount system as it is as my current set up is a compromise. Love the output for both stills and video, but the combo I need of bodies and lenses doesn’t work as it should and as some other systems offer. L Mount is still in the running however depending on what is announced and available prior to the end of Feb 2023. The clock is very much ticking regarding L Mount… I could very easily flip to an A7iv + Tamron 35-150 plus pair of FX30’s one with the 20-40 and the other with the 17-70 and be done…and it may be what I do. My current first choice however is a pair of XH2’s and a single XH2S and I am currently trying the former but struggling to find both the time and the typical conditions to test it properly. With Fuji, it would be a primarily prime based set up with a switch to zooms for ceremonies and speeches at weddings as I don’t really favour their zoom options over the Sony zoom options. Then there is the Nikon Z9 curveball but can I go back to a camera that big…?? I wish Sigma would just build me an FP-L with; tilt screen, mechanical shutter (or e:shutter comparable with the Z9), IBIS, 4K 50/60p and a bigger battery and I’d never buy another camera the rest of my career. Am I asking too much of Sigma? 😂 IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 units are starting to get out in the wild.. this lowlight footage is rather impressive for APS-C imo. it really looks like Sony has dialled down the in camera NR giving it a much more filmic look at higher ISO. That with the added oversampling and the IQ really rivals (if not surpasses) the FF FX3. what do you think? IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Along with the A7RV it also appears to have better SOOC colour. ”Define better?” In side by side comparisons, same lens, closest same settings etc, it looks better to my eye. Slightly less yellow than of recent (which itself replaced ‘greenish’), a fraction more muted and contrasty? Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 Already have a problem with the Sony FX30 got it for 1 week and now a bunch of functions are grayed out in my menu's Even tried to So a Init reset and still didn't work. Few things that are disabled (Grayed Out) is Base ISO switch which lets you switch from 800 to 2500 . also can't select a picture profile, and yes it was set to Cine EI when i press the ISO button to switch from 800 to 2500. Maybe my camera is just a defect.. Not sure any of this happen to any of you?? Donny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 Well, an FX30 plus Tamron 20-40mm f2.8 which would together form my principal wedding day video set up (along with another on a gimbal plus static duty and roaming 3rd stills-orientated but sometimes video unit) was in the shopping basket all day yesterday. Just about to push the button when the notaire (French property lawyer) contacted me to say, "you need to pay a 12k deposit on your new house purchase". With just 13k in the account, that took the Sony & lens out of the basket 🤑 Haven't really got any time to play until well into the new year anyway so probably for the best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted November 3, 2022 Author Share Posted November 3, 2022 Sorry to hear that but didn't you just buy into the Fuji ecosystem? Were you planning on mixing camera brands or switching already to Sony? Bloom just uploaded a long FX30 review. Of course half of it was spent gushing over the cat AF and the other ranting that cat AF wasn't in his A1/FX3. Still few interesting observations in it.. For me I find the FX30 a bit too expensive here in EU. with the XLR handle it is 2800€ which is XH2S money and above the new R6 mk2 which is my ideal FF hybrid. Lack of EVF and mechanical shutter is also a bit of a deal breaker. Solid choice though for other types of shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 51 minutes ago, Django said: For me I find the FX30 a bit too expensive here in EU. with the XLR handle it is 2800€ which is XH2S money and above the new R6 mk2 which is my ideal FF hybrid. But when you consider the prices of the XH2S/R6mk2 then neither of those are factoring in the cost of an XLR handle for those too. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1679651-REG/tascam_ca_xlr2d_f_xlr_mic_adapter_for.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 41 minutes ago, Django said: Sorry to hear that but didn't you just buy into the Fuji ecosystem? Were you planning on mixing camera brands or switching already to Sony? I'm sitting on a fence 🤪 Currently off-loading a big chunk of my L Mount kit... It's not 100% definite that I will not be shooting L Mount next season, but if I am it will be... A. Because something too good is coming not to wait and in the meantime, muddle along with the S1R and S1H. B. Or even just 'muddle along' with the S1R and S1H, but will need to get another S1H. The second S1R and S5 are going as what has been this years' set up has had too many compromises and workarounds to continue with in it's current format...but a single S1R + pair of S1H set up could work, - it's just a bit bigger and heavier than I'd ideally like, the tracking AF is an issue but otherwise, is still an option. Ideally though, I'd like to see something new... A Nikon based system is still a contender. 'Z8' preferable to Z9 from a size/weight perspective, but it's currently only a speculation so... Yes I bought a single XH2 and lens to try out on a real world job (the only test that counts) prior to my season ending, but it arrived too late and I just sat and looked at it for the best part of a month. Sent it back yesterday, but it's still a contender... Sent it back basically whilst I still could just in case I don't end up going that route. Nothing lost either way! But right now, struggling to see past Sony on 2 counts... Count A. It's the most complete system currently that ticks most, if not all of my boxes. Count B. Perhaps the most important consideration for me going forward is I just want the tools to not impede me from a creative POV, or at least have the most minimal compromise as possible. Size, weight and AF are key to that. Otherwise no, not going to mix brands. I need cross platform bodies and lenses and ideally all 3 bodies identical for handling purposes. Or at least only 2 types from the same brand. But even that causes issues... The difference between S1R and S1H is quite considerable. S5 just throws it off even further. Handling full stop. 3x different screens. 3x different on off buttons... The list goes on... Having said that, the only brand mixing I might consider is Nikon + OM System as in single Z9 plus pair of OM-1's as the set up there would not be affected by mixing brands. I have 3-4 months... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 56 minutes ago, Django said: Bloom just uploaded a long FX30 review. Of course half of it was spent gushing over the cat AF and the other ranting that cat AF wasn't in his A1/FX3. Still few interesting observations in it.. Watched it along with 1/2 a dozen others. True 'cinema' camera? Probably not... Content creator/wedding videographer's camera. I think very much so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 58 minutes ago, Django said: For me I find the FX30 a bit too expensive here in EU. Same as an XH2 but less than an XH2S...the latter of which it is closer to in spec. Arguably though, the XH2 is more photography orientated with a decent video capability. The XH2S has greater video chops but is less pure photographer, especially when it comes to say commercial or landscape. The XF30 can of course take pics, but no one would really buy this because it can so to my mind is very much that 'content creator/videographer/travellers' camera. It fits 2 of 3 of my needs very well. Better than anything else right now, XH2S included, though as an out and out hybrid, the XH2S kicks the FX30's arse no question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 While I think of it, I only found out very recently that there is a significant difference between the FX3 and the FX30 and it's not the sensor. It's they removed the mechanical shutter. The FX3 makes more sense to me as a hybrid because it has one...but then it's not quite what I'd be happy with being 12mp for photography. Zero issue with 26mp APSC...but with e:shutter only/no flash... But as I just said, I am not looking at or expecting the FX30 to be the 'do it all' camera, but instead my A and B video cams for my wedding work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.