Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 The 1DC, when in 4K mode, with the 1.3 crop, outputs a spectacular image to the external recorders, while in the normal 1080p fullframe mode, it's not as good. I think we have a similar situation here, because when in 4K mode, we get full sensor read-out as opposed to pixel-binning/line skipping on the 1080p mode. Above sample looks absolutely superb. Closer to 5D raw colors and grade-ability than any other consumer camera footage I've seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulraymaekers Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 Yes it's the Ninja that converts the 4K to HD. That's what you are seeing in the Dropbox video above. This is why I can't see any benefit to buying a Shogun if you're going to be downsampling in post anyway. As I understand it, the GH4 gives full sensor readout when using 4K whatever. If this really is the case it actually makes more sense to record to 1080 prores. In which case a standard Ninja is probably better - saving yourself money, time, hassle and space on your hotshoe ;) ok, this even makes it nicer. I assume it's not the full sensor coming out of the HDMI, but the center 3840*2160 pixels, same as what is recorded when filming UHD. and the ninja just bins one pixel every 2 and one line every 2 lines to convert it to HD... so the workflow become so easy: film in UHD (ok, with the 1.2 crop from the full sensor), record 1080p 10bit 422, and you have perfect footage to work on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest d5f8611fa423d0e628c016f9d5c93b47 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Don't take my word for it though ... I don't even own a GH4! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 13, 2014 Administrators Share Posted June 13, 2014 Indeed... hardware scaler on the HDMI. No pixel binning. Full 4K sensor readout. 10bit 422 uncompressed oversampled 1080p on the HDMI output = very nice picture :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafreaking Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Indeed... hardware scaler on the HDMI. No pixel binning. Full 4K sensor readout. 10bit 422 uncompressed oversampled 1080p on the HDMI output = very nice picture :) Would you say its better than recording 4K on SD cards and converting to 1080p in post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varicam Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I hope there is an update to the GH4 shooter's guide containing info on the various options of recording from HDMI. Right now I am reading bits and pieces and still feel confused as to what I can actually get from the HDMI out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Would you say its better than recording 4K on SD cards and converting to 1080p in post? It should. The ninja gets 10bit 4:2:2 4k image and downscales it to true 10bit 4:2:2 1080p. While with shooting internal 4K, you begin with 4K 8bit 4:2:0 and then downscale that to 1080p. I expect colors to be a huge leap from the ninja compared to internal recording. It's 4K 10bit 4:2:2 on a 1600$ camera for god's sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest d5f8611fa423d0e628c016f9d5c93b47 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I hope there is an update to the GH4 shooter's guide containing info on the various options of recording from HDMI. Right now I am reading bits and pieces and still feel confused as to what I can actually get from the HDMI out. Just look at the footage above! That's what you can get! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest d5f8611fa423d0e628c016f9d5c93b47 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Would you say its better than recording 4K on SD cards and converting to 1080p in post? Download the footage above. Play it. Try grading it. That will answer your question! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 After playing with this file in comparison to the internal 4K going down to 1080p in post, it's clear the Ninja is superior. 10-bit 4:2:2 makes a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest d5f8611fa423d0e628c016f9d5c93b47 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Hell, even the C100 needs a Ninja to get 422 (and I've never understood if it's real 10bit or not). If the adapter Andrew is keeping quiet about takes Canon glass, improves low light performance significantly, effectively increases sensor size and - my wild guess - incorporates an ND filter, the C100 is going to have a run for its (far greater amount of) money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Yes Matt the GH4 coupled with a 5" ninja on the hotshoe , recording 10bit 4:2:2 prores to SSDs, is indeed the first worthy competitor to the C line for broadcast and wedding and documentary work. Even without NDs or speedboosting. A small usable compact form factor with great image quality. Pushing that image in the above example is eyeopening. Never seen this kind of color in a consumer camera footage. I can't induce banding as if it'a closer to 14bit than 10bit. On a 51" monitor, colors just sing and details leap off the screen. Doesn't get anymore "filmic" than that! Just waiting for confirmation from Andrew and will order a Ninja. Seems it will be a great investment not just for the GH4 but for the 4K output of the A7s or any other cameras. Great monitor too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcs Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 When setting the camera to 422 10-bit and hooking the GH4 to a 1080p HDTV I noticed the image looked really good. In that case the GH4 is scaling 4K to 1080p in-camera which is what I would expect would happen when hooking up a 1080p recorder such as the Ninja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest d5f8611fa423d0e628c016f9d5c93b47 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 @ Ebrahim: Personally I think the tiny Ninja Star would be a good match for the GH4. Do you really need the screen of a Blade when the GH4 is so feature rich already? CFast cards should drop in price soon apparently. Really exciting stuff. I 'm very eager to hear about the new adapter too though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 @ Ebrahim: Personally I think the tiny Ninja Star would be a good match for the GH4. Do you really need the screen of a Blade when the GH4 is so feature rich already? CFast cards should drop in price soon apparently. Actually Atomos announced they're making their own CFast cards for the Star. They're damn cheap and make the device a much more appealing proposition. Two 64GB cards and a card reader for 300 bucks I believe. You're right one might consider that one too. I mean it would be absolutely invisible mounted on the hot-shoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raf702 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Sorry I'm confused, are you guys referring to the Ninja Star or Blade? That the test video was recorded with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcs Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 10-bit 422 1080p recorded externally to ProRes (and HQ) will be around 185-220Mbps (peak) vs 100Mbps (peak) for 4K internal H.264 (which scales to 444 and 10-bit(ish) luma 1080p). A test comparing these two workflows would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varicam Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 So there is no 10-bit 4K external recording, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcs Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 10-bit 4K external recording will be possible with the Shogun (September) or quad SDI recorders (possible now with YAGH: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/857190-REG/AJA_KI_PRO_QUAD_Ki_Pro_Quad.html). nib187 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nib187 Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Here is 10bit 4k example (external). I can upload original file (downloaded from vimeo, 12GB) to copy.com if anyone is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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