ARRI's brand new 4K S35 sensor is mere weeks away

[newfoundmass]

Very informative video by Potato Jet. What a camera! 

 

[IronFilm]

10 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

The new Alexa 35 really makes sense. The mini and mini lF suffered from no menu screen on the body.

Was so annoying having to add on the EVF to make a menu change, or even just to simply check the timecode!

As often the build wouldn't have an EVF, such as if on a crane or on a gimbal. 

10 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

This new design also has a battery plate on the rear which means less rigging.

Hated the placement of the timecode input too on the Mini! Right there at the back, so awkward. Now they've got a battery plate there isn't, as it should be. 

The ACs didn't like it either, as was tricky for them to get media in and out of the Mini. 

  

Just now, newfoundmass said:

Very informative video by Potato Jet. What a camera! 

Wow. What a world we live in! Even ARRI is loaning out their new camera release to YouTubers, harnessing the power of social media promotion. 

You expect this from Sony and Canon, but not ARRI. 

Shows the importance of social media marketing now at all levels!

[TomTheDP]

ARRI is really coming for competition. I really think if they release a new full frame 6k camera with this sensor, the competition is really gonna struggle.

[newfoundmass]

36 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Wow. What a world we live in! Even ARRI is loaning out their new camera release to YouTubers, harnessing the power of social media promotion. 

You expect this from Sony and Canon, but not ARRI. 

Shows the importance of social media marketing now at all levels!

I think because Potato Jet is a working DP he was invited and allowed to film. I'm not sure that they specifically invited him because he's notable YouTuber, but it wouldn't shock me either if he was. It seemed like a gathering with a lot of industry people as opposed to influencers, though. 

What's fascinating is all the stuff that happens before the debayering process. Is that something new? 

[IronFilm]

I did a detailed a long look into the audio aspects of the ALEXA 35 over on jwsound if anybody wishes to read that:

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/41343-new-arri-super-35mm-4k-camera-has-been-released-alexa-35/ 

 

52 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

ARRI is really coming for competition. I really think if they release a new full frame 6k camera with this sensor, the competition is really gonna struggle.

I think you'll be in for a long wait. 

In the past ARRI had the AD convertors and the sensor be two separate boards, thus they could more easily use a couple of sensors together for the LF. 

But now for the ALEXA 35 the two separate boards are gone, and it is all on a single board. 

  

15 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I think because Potato Jet is a working DP he was invited and allowed to film. I'm not sure that they specifically invited him because he's notable YouTuber, but it wouldn't shock me either if he was. It seemed like a gathering with a lot of industry people as opposed to influencers, though. 

oh yeah even I could probably get an invite to go along to the event showcasing it locally, but that video he uploaded was much more than just going to an event and being allowed to film the camera. Seems he actually shot with the camera itself as well. 

[TomTheDP]

45 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I did a detailed a long look into the audio aspects of the ALEXA 35 over on jwsound if anybody wishes to read that:

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/41343-new-arri-super-35mm-4k-camera-has-been-released-alexa-35/ 

 

I think you'll be in for a long wait. 

In the past ARRI had the AD convertors and the sensor be two separate boards, thus they could more easily use a couple of sensors together for the LF. 

But now for the ALEXA 35 the two separate boards are gone, and it is all on a single board. 

 

Maybe, they could also design a whole new sensor with the same tech. Seems like if they are creating an all new colorspace it wouldn't be for a single release.

[IronFilm]

57 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

it wouldn't be for a single release.

ALEXA LF and the Mini LF can use the new Reveal Color Science as well. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see eventually see a LF mk2 based on this new sensor, but I am however doubtful that will be any time soon. Could easily be five plus years away. 

They'll probably put out a "35 Mini" (Micro?) before that, or a headless version like the ALEXA M (or Sony's Rialto system) for ultra tightly compact shooting. Maybe a live broadcast version as well? 

[Tim Sewell]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Wow. What a world we live in! Even ARRI is loaning out their new camera release to YouTubers, harnessing the power of social media promotion.

He has a long-standing relationship with Arri in LA.

[IronFilm]

Fascinating reading the FD Times report on the ALEXA 35. Seems all past cameras they took a waterfall approach to development, but the ALEXA 35 was the first time they used agile development. 

https://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/free/115FDTimes-June2022-2.04-150.pdf 

[IronFilm]

5 minutes into this ARRI presentation video it goes into details about the Sonosax module:  

 

Audio normally gets ignored so much by manufactures, nice to have ARRI come out and make claim "this is the BEST sounding audio in any camera available today". 

[kye]

8 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

What's fascinating is all the stuff that happens before the debayering process. Is that something new? 

This is an excellent question.

I have been delving into things and I have come to three significant observations:

• Camera sensors are Linear measurement devices
• Normal cameras do not look anything like an Alexa - even when shooting RAW still images that aren't debayered and even well within their best operating area (low DR, base ISO, etc)
• The OLPF and spectral sensitivity of various cameras doesn't change much

The problem with these three statements is that they can't all be correct without there being something else going on.  The only way I know how to resolve this contradiction is if there is processing going on before the debayering in the ARRI cameras.

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I think you'll be in for a long wait. 

In the past ARRI had the AD convertors and the sensor be two separate boards, thus they could more easily use a couple of sensors together for the LF. 

But now for the ALEXA 35 the two separate boards are gone, and it is all on a single board.

I don't think the layout presents an enormous challenge for them to be able to put multiple sensors together like the LF does, but you might be right about it being a long wait.  

The 35 is named to match the 65, and the introduction of the 35 means that now they have cameras over 4K in all sensor sizes.  Obviously the new 35 has greater dynamic range and colour depth than the ALEV3 cameras, but considering how much those already had, you could almost just think of the DR on the 35 like a special application camera (like super slow motion) where a production would just use one for those shots.

[BTM_Pix]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Wow. What a world we live in! Even ARRI is loaning out their new camera release to YouTubers, harnessing the power of social media promotion. 

Looking at the prices, any clicked through affiliate links for this camera will certainly produce a genuine shock face from the YouTube bros when they get the cheques.

I think I'm going to save up for the Codex Compact Drive Adapter first and build my system up from there.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K0.0041726 ALEXA 35 Production Set (19mm Studio): $77,940 USD (€71,500)

Includes:

K1.0039373 1x ALEXA 35 camera body

10.0043678 1x ALEXA 35 Cine License

K2.0018983 1x ARRI LPL Mount (LBUS)

K2.0016936 1x ARRI PL-to-LPL Adapter

K2.0034180 1x Balance Utility Dovetail BUD-1

K2.0023751 1x B-Mount Battery Adapter

K2.0020916 1x Multi Viewfinder MVF-2

K2.0042857 2x Cable VF Right Angle (0.5m/1.5ft)

K2.0024101 1x Power Distribution Module PDM-1

KK.0041533 1x Production Support Set – Top

KK.0041534 1x Production Support Set – Side

KK.0041535 1x Production Support Set – Bottom (19mm)

 

K0.0041722 ALEXA 35 Lightweight Set: $75,100 USD (€68.900)

Includes:

K1.0039373 1x ALEXA 35 camera body

10.0043678 1x ALEXA 35 Cine License

K2.0018983 1x ARRI LPL Mount (LBUS)

K2.0016936 1x ARRI PL-to-LPL Adapter

K2.0034180 1x Balance Utility Dovetail BUD-1

K2.0023751 1x B-Mount Battery Adapter

K2.0020916 1x Multi Viewfinder MVF-2

K2.0042857 2x Cable VF Right Angle (0.5m/1.5ft)

K2.75007.0 1x Camera Power Cable Straight 2m/6.6in KC-50

KK.0041537 1x Lightweight Support Set – Top

KK.0041538 1x Lightweight Support Set – Side

KK.0041539 1x Lightweight Support Set – Bottom

 

K0.0041724 ALEXA 35 Body & ARRI LPL Mount Set: $64,880 USD (€60.800)

K1.0039373 1x ALEXA 35 camera body

10.0043678 1x ALEXA 35 Cine License

K2.0034180 1x Balance Utility Dovetail BUD-1

K2.0023751 1x B-Mount Battery Adapter

K2.0018983 1x ARRI LPL Mount (LBUS)

K2.0016936 1x ARRI PL-to-LPL Adapter

 

Accessory Costs

The MVF-2 EVF costs $8,030 USD

A 1TB Codex Compact Drive costs $2,490 USD

Codex Compact Drive Reader (USB-C) $690 USD

Codex Compact Drive Adapter $550 USD

 

 

[Caleb Genheimer]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

ALEXA LF and the Mini LF can use the new Reveal Color Science as well. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see eventually see a LF mk2 based on this new sensor, but I am however doubtful that will be any time soon. Could easily be five plus years away. 

They'll probably put out a "35 Mini" (Micro?) before that, or a headless version like the ALEXA M (or Sony's Rialto system) for ultra tightly compact shooting. Maybe a live broadcast version as well? 

Excellent breakdown here from CVP… with the sensor structured the way it is, when asked apparently ARRI stated that it no longer allows them to simply “stitch” two sensors by sitting them next to each other, so an LF/Mini LF based on this sensor would presumably require an ACTUAL NEW sensor (just based on this tech,) as opposed to the stitching used previously. ARRI said “never” to an LF with this sensor, but that probably just means it will be a new sensor, and quite a long way off in the future. They’re not gonna just stitch two and drop a new camera next year.

 

Whats INSANE to me is just how clean they can get in the over AND under tests, even compared to their own previous cameras. It’s so clean that they’ve built in a “texture” collection. I was wondering how they’d satisfy folks who are obsessed with their original sensor’s look, but there’s my answer LOL, they have a texture setting designed to match their previous cameras.

[Caleb Genheimer]

I’d still be obsessed with an AMIRA II with this sensor though, that’d be such a cool package.

[TomTheDP]

In the Keynote presentation Stephan Schenk says that the Alexa 35, LF, and 65 will be their line up going forward. He said they will continue producing the LF for the next 2-3 years at least. He didn't include the original mini in that though.

Hopefully that means it'll be discontinued and the price will tank lol.

This is interesting as the new Alexa 35 body seems very much superior to the LF. A higher resolution full frame camera with the LF body seems like it would be a hit. But I appreciate ARRI sticking to their products.

The new colorspace that sits slightly above REC2020 is interesting. It kind of turns me off that they strongly advise against manual grading. One of the lovely things about the original Arri Log C is that it's so easy to manually grade. But I understand why. The fact that you won't have to deal with out of gamut clipping, especially in the blue channel, is amazing.

The higher sensitivity mode is a bit off putting. ARRI mentioned there is a certain amount of ghosting with their in camera noise reduction. Though knowing ARRI it is probably very minimal and probably totally suitable for any project.

[kye]

I think someone mentioned this in passing earlier in the thread, but I thought I'd link it in case anyone was interested.

The FD Times latest issue is 96 pages devoted purely to the Alexa 35
https://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/free/115FDTimes-June2022-2.04-150.pdf

One of the highlights I found was the ARRI head of sensor design demonstrating a new experimental firmware that reduces the weight of the camera for steadicam operators:

But seriously folks....  it's a good read.

[IronFilm]

21 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think I'm going to save up for the Codex Compact Drive Adapter first and build my system up from there.

 

nah, splurge out on buying the reader first!

[IronFilm]

 

9 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

In the Keynote presentation Stephan Schenk says that the Alexa 35, LF, and 65 will be their line up going forward. He said they will continue producing the LF for the next 2-3 years at least. He didn't include the original mini in that though.

They're still building the Mini LF, as well as the full size one. 

Guess they've discontinued the SXT W? And the AMIRA etc? Or is the ALEXA 35 going to be their only Super 35mm camera?

2 hours ago, kye said:

One of the highlights I found was the ARRI head of sensor design demonstrating a new experimental firmware that reduces the weight of the camera for steadicam operators:

Nah, it is part of the physical stress tests! They drop it a few times in their test lab before shipping out each new camera from the factory. 

18 hours ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

I’d still be obsessed with an AMIRA II with this sensor though, that’d be such a cool package.

ALEXA 35 with the Sonosax module is pretty close to an AMIRA setup I'd say?? What are you wanting?

18 hours ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

Excellent breakdown here from CVP… with the sensor structured the way it is, when asked apparently ARRI stated that it no longer allows them to simply “stitch” two sensors by sitting them next to each other, so an LF/Mini LF based on this sensor would presumably require an ACTUAL NEW sensor (just based on this tech,) as opposed to the stitching used previously. ARRI said “never” to an LF with this sensor, but that probably just means it will be a new sensor, and quite a long way off in the future. They’re not gonna just stitch two and drop a new camera next year.

Yup, I was saying that earlier in the thread that anybody who is not ordering the ALEXA 35 because they're waiting instead for the "new LF" version is going to be in for a loooooooooong wait!
 

9 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

This is interesting as the new Alexa 35 body seems very much superior to the LF. A higher resolution full frame camera with the LF body seems like it would be a hit. But I appreciate ARRI sticking to their products.

I agree, in a sane world, just discontinue the LF series! But it seems some people are obsessed with a bigger sensor. So they'll hang around for a long while. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 6/1/2022 at 6:38 AM, IronFilm said:

Fascinating reading the FD Times report on the ALEXA 35. Seems all past cameras they took a waterfall approach to development, but the ALEXA 35 was the first time they used agile development. 

https://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/free/115FDTimes-June2022-2.04-150.pdf 

As a software developer, I'd be afraid if they used agile, probably the camera will be refactored every 3 weeks. 🙂

[kye]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

They're still building the Mini LF, as well as the full size one. 

Guess they've discontinued the SXT W? And the AMIRA etc? Or is the ALEXA 35 going to be their only Super 35mm camera?

Nah, it is part of the physical stress tests! They drop it a few times in their test lab before shipping out each new camera from the factory. 

ALEXA 35 with the Sonosax module is pretty close to an AMIRA setup I'd say?? What are you wanting?

Yup, I was saying that earlier in the thread that anybody who is not ordering the ALEXA 35 because they're waiting instead for the "new LF" version is going to be in for a loooooooooong wait!
 

I agree, in a sane world, just discontinue the LF series! But it seems some people are obsessed with a bigger sensor. So they'll hang around for a long while. 

Well, I'd agree it's a stress test....  just not of the camera!

2 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

As a software developer, I'd be afraid if they used agile, probably the camera will be refactored every 3 weeks. 🙂

I'm familiar with Agile in software development and if you're curious I'd recommend you have a read through the sections where the sensor and image processing heads talk about the various processes and the number of variables that go into them getting the best colour.  IIRC there are literally dozens of variables (voltages and other electronic aspects) in running the sensor and they tried various combinations to try and optimise the image.  I'm guessing that having two-week sprints is what allowed them to go down that path and still have the camera see the light of day - it might have been decades more if it was waterfall!