7D RAW vs 5dmkII RAW

[thlbeal]

Hey Guys,

Wondering if I could get some insight about which would be a better camera for RAW.  A month ago, I was set on the GH4 as my next camera.  I love the images and resolution, but I've yet to see anything that really captures the cinematic look I'm going for.  It's still an option, but if I were to use it I would have to invest in lenses and a focal reducer.

 

Recently, I've started working for a local company that allows me to use all their lenses (Mostly L series and Zeiss stuff) so I'm considering switching game plans.  I was thinking that maybe a 7d/5dmk2 (mk3 is a little out of budget) would be the best best, considering all the lenses I have at my disposal.  I mainly do music videos, so I don't need super long shots or a full 1920x1080 resolution (I know 7d/5dmk2 is vertically cropped a bit).

 

I really wanted to get the 50d a while back, because that was all I could afford, but now these new options are within reach.  I just don't see many people talking about shooting 7d/5dmk2 RAW and was wondering if I could get some feedback from those of you who shoot with these setups.

 

Any help is appreciated! Thanks.

[fuzzynormal]

I don't need super long shots or a full 1920x1080 resolution

 

You'll get that regardless.

[HurtinMinorKey]

Thee footage i've seen off the 5D2 actually looks better than most of what i've seen from the 5D3, but the sample size isn't that big. I really havent seen much from the 7D.  But i  think there are more people working on the 5D code then the 7D because of the dual chip processing. 

[stephen]

My vote goes for 5D Mark II

Was hesitating between BMPCC , Canon 5D Mark II and 7D since they have similar prices if you buy 5D used.  Wanted to taste RAW video without investing a lot of money. Got 5D Mark II. Happy with my choice. Canon colors are fantastic and easy to get, RAW video workflow was relatively quick to learn and master.

 

For me 5D Mark II is like having 4 different cameras in one.

-          It is a full frame photo camera. Quite capable and good one by the way

-          It is an OK 8bit Full Frame video camera

-          It is a spectacular 16mm RAW camera

-          And a good FULL FRAME RAW camera

 

Reasons to choose over 7D:

1.       In scenes where you want most objects in focus crop mode could be used. For 5D it is 1:3 or 1:2.7 depending which aspect ratio you choose to work with and the length of the clips.  This is approximately the sensor size of Blackmagic Pocket  Camera. But with better low light performance and 0 moire and aliasing. Beautiful sharp image without using antialiasing filter!  There are lenses that cover wide angles for this aspect ratio, like Sigma 10-20.  Own and use Tokina 11-16 f/2.8.  It becomes 30-44mm or 33-48mm in crop mode.

Crop mode on 7D is something like 1:4.48 (1.6x2.8).  You won't be able to find decent wide angle lenses. Same Tokina 11-16 becomes now 50-70mm !

2.       5D Mark II is better in low light.

3.       You still can use 5D in full frame mode. You may need antialiasing filter for the purpose. I use it without the filter and like the results. Moire and aliasing are tolerable with good post processing.  At least for some scenes they are not a problem for me. In scenes with narrow DOF some part of the frame is out of focus, so aliasing and moire are even less of a problem. Full Frame gives you unique DOF and field of view. I like it. Combining crop mode and full frame you can get good to pristine image even without antialiasing filter. That’s my experience.

4.       So far better support from Magic Lantern - 5D Mark II is supported in nightly builds (all new development) while 7D as far as I know is not yet.

5.       It is easy to find good and cheap lenses for full frame. Had a 28mm f2 old Canon FD lens which was adapted without a problem for EOS mount. Total cost was less than 100$.

 

7D with its dual CPU achieve a little higher speed of recording.  Advantage is for crop mode only. But as already said, wide angles are definitely a problem for 7D crop mode.

 

Can post some sample clips in full frame and crop mode if you like.

[thlbeal]

My vote goes for 5D Mark II

Was hesitating between BMPCC , Canon 5D Mark II and 7D since they have similar prices if you buy 5D used.  Wanted to taste RAW video without investing a lot of money. Got 5D Mark II. Happy with my choice. Canon colors are fantastic and easy to get, RAW video workflow was relatively quick to learn and master.

 

For me 5D Mark II is like having 4 different cameras in one.

-          It is a full frame photo camera. Quite capable and good one by the way

-          It is an OK 8bit Full Frame video camera

-          It is a spectacular 16mm RAW camera

-          And a good FULL FRAME RAW camera

 

Reasons to choose over 7D:

1.       In scenes where you want most objects in focus crop mode could be used. For 5D it is 1:3 or 1:2.7 depending which aspect ratio you choose to work with and the length of the clips.  This is approximately the sensor size of Blackmagic Pocket  Camera. But with better low light performance and 0 moire and aliasing. Beautiful sharp image without using antialiasing filter!  There are lenses that cover wide angles for this aspect ratio, like Sigma 10-20.  Own and use Tokina 11-16 f/2.8.  It becomes 30-44mm or 33-48mm in crop mode.

Crop mode on 7D is something like 1:4.48 (1.6x2.8).  You won't be able to find decent wide angle lenses. Same Tokina 11-16 becomes now 50-70mm !

2.       5D Mark II is better in low light.

3.       You still can use 5D in full frame mode. You may need antialiasing filter for the purpose. I use it without the filter and like the results. Moire and aliasing are tolerable with good post processing.  At least for some scenes they are not a problem for me. In scenes with narrow DOF some part of the frame is out of focus, so aliasing and moire are even less of a problem. Full Frame gives you unique DOF and field of view. I like it. Combining crop mode and full frame you can get good to pristine image even without antialiasing filter. That’s my experience.

4.       So far better support from Magic Lantern - 5D Mark II is supported in nightly builds (all new development) while 7D as far as I know is not yet.

5.       It is easy to find good and cheap lenses for full frame. Had a 28mm f2 old Canon FD lens which was adapted without a problem for EOS mount. Total cost was less than 100$.

 

7D with its dual CPU achieve a little higher speed of recording.  Advantage is for crop mode only. But as already said, wide angles are definitely a problem for 7D crop mode.

 

Can post some sample clips in full frame and crop mode if you like.

 

Stephen,

 

Thank you so much for the reply.  You bring up some great points, things I've never thought of like the 3x crop compared to the BMPCC.  I can buy a mk2 for extremely cheap around here, so I figure I might buy it with a VAF and a couple cards.  That'll put me around the GH4 in price.  There's something about the mk2 RAW stuff that I really get excited about.  I swear it does have it's own unique look and feel to it.  I keep coming back to these videos - 

and this video - 

.  A lot of people seem to be turned off by the energy spent dealing with RAW, but for me it's exciting.  I also do some photography, so having a full frame (compared to my 600d) would be an awesome bonus as well. 

 

I would love to see some crop comparisons, though.  I've seen some online, but for some reason I thought it was a 5x crop, which would be a lot harder to use the majority of the time.  Also, do you have any card recommendations?

 

Thanks again.

[HurtinMinorKey]

^Damn, part of me feels like Film-Convert is like cheating. It looks so good. 

[Tim Fraser]

I notice the 5D iii ML can now record audio as well as RAW video, so can the mark ii build do this also?

[Nikkor]

I think ML RAW is great for planned shots.

[Tim Fraser]

Can anyone with experience of raw video on Canon 7D and 5D mark II, tell me if either or both of these cameras record on camera audio while capturing ML RAW 1080p video?

[mtheory]

5D2 can do RAW audio/video continuously at 1728x972 resolution, and higher resolutions at non 16:9 ratios.

[Tim Fraser]

Thanks, that is most interesting.

 

I take it that 1728x972 resolution is a 1:1 pixel mapping from the centre of the sensor and therefore when I compare the diagonal pixels with the native sensor I get a crop of about 3.4?

 

So for example the 17-40mm lens would give 58-136mm eq?

 

Or have I misunderstood what the resolution is?

[Viet Bach Bui]

The crop factor is (5616 : 1728) = 3.25 for 16:9 video.

[mtheory]

There is no crop factor, this is at full frame.

[Tim Fraser]

There is no crop factor, this is at full frame.

That's what I was wanting to confirm, because it makes a big difference to, well everything!

 

So what is going on here?  ML hack must take full sensor readout and then get it to 1728x972 res THEN write out each frame to the CF card.

 

I totally get the advantage of RAW pixels, and loved playing with Resolve lite on my V1 footage but until I try it out with an actual 5D ii or 7D, I don't know how well ML hack does this downsizing, in terms of sharpness, moire.  If ML does very good binning then the quality should be almost as good as 1:1 would be with the adv of full frame FOV.  Very tempting even if I am a little late to the party.

 

I guess I won't be the first to be torn between a new panasonic GX7 or second hand Canon DSLR with ML Raw for personal unpaid use.

 

GX7 still looking good, with focus peaking and tilting LCD so I won't break my neck...bending down to get shots of grand daughters :-)

 

If the Canon ML hack also does focus peaking while shooting raw video, how would you describe using it in practice please?  (and if you have comparison of using GX7)

[nigelbb]

RAW video with ML on 7D or 5D2 is an incredible PITA it's up to you whether the effort involved is worth the trouble.

 

There is supposed to be a Metabones smart Canon EF to MFT Speed Booster announced soon. That would make all the lenses that you have access to useable on the GH4.