Sony A7S 4K full frame mirrorless camera announced Sunday at NAB?

[theSUBVERSIVE]

I don't think Sony is aiming at the GH4, they didn't even know about the GH4 when they started developing this A7S, for me, they are aiming at the 5D as the FF stills camera for video and as such it will probably match its price.

 

I have my doubts when it comes to Sony actually delivering the best they can, they usually don't, just like they did with the A7 and A7R and I don't know how much it will affect the GH4, how is Sony going to turn a higher pixel sensor into 4K, Sony is probably going for something higher than 16MP in this FF camera. A full readout of a bigger sensor with more pixels would need more processing power, can it really match the GH4's video quality? Will Sony use their best codec in it?

 

It will probably have a bigger form factor because the A7/R barely had enough space to have a proper shutter and therefore they don't have 10fps like many other Sony's cameras and it's loud. For the money I hardly think Sony can match a GH4+Speed Booster combo but it will certainly have its appeal and it will sell well if it has at least a decent video.

 

But I'm more interested in knowing how it's going to affect the 5D.

[dafreaking]

Lighten up people. I'm sure the M43 Sony A7S will be better  ;)  :P  :D

 

I think Sony is rushing this one in because of GH4 hysteria.

[joe1946]

Can we stop comparing everything to the GH4 please?

Compare it to the full frame Canon EOS 1D C that has a 1.3x crop in 4K.

[maxotics]

Panasonic has a history of delivering better and better results with the MFT sensor.  The only decent video I've seen from full-frame is the 5D3 hacked with ML.  Looking at the rolling shutter problems with the AX100, which is only a 1-inch sensor, I find it hard to believe they can fix the problem in a full-frame.   

 

I agree with Andy (I think Andy thinks this) that if Sony could perfect video from an APS-C that would deliver benefits you couldn't get from the GH4 or other MFT sensor bodies, like lower noise and the ability to use better glass (or different, at any rate).  Even Nikon has been improving APS-C size video.  However, I am NOT saying it would be better than MFT, just different trade-offs, which I'm sure Andrew will figure out for us :)

 

If the past is any indication, good full-frame video is years away.

[Andrew Reid]

Compare it to the full frame Canon EOS 1D C that has a 1.3x crop in 4K.

 

Let's get a few things straightened out regarding Joe and dafranking's thoughts here, because they don't make sense at all to me.

 

1D C is different price bracket and an MJPEG codec. It isn't comparable to the GH4 on features and won't be comparable to the A7S on price most likely.

 

It is old technology now.

 

The GH4 is the most obvious candidate to compare upcoming 4K cameras to, it is the current benchmark. No other camera comes in at the same price point with this many features. The Blackmagic 4K has 8x larger file sizes which are impossible to archive over a years worth of shooting unless you are Donald Trump, yet it lacks even the most basic of features like histogram. Nice image under ISO 400 and I like the concept but sorry, it is not feature complete enough or ergonomic enough to compete with Sony or Panasonic, ditto the 1D C.

[Andrew Reid]

Something to bear in mind...

 

I highly doubt the A7S will use the full frame sensor area to record 4K from. If they use their 36MP A7R and take a 4096 x 2160 box from it, you will have a smaller sensor than Super 35mm. If they use their 24MP A7 sensor it will still be a big crop.

 

Best case senario is if they use the 16MP sensor they supplied Nikon in the D4 and D4S, which already could window out areas of the sensor at 1:1 for video. Quadrants of the same 1920x1080p area Nikon uses on the D4S would be an option for the A7S but it still wouldn't give you a full frame field of view, it would be like the 1D C with a 1.3x crop.

 

GH4 is 1.5x crop with Speed Booster and you gain in optical sharpness and brightness.

 

So let's try to avoid the hyperbole stuff and get the facts right. This thing hasn't even been announced yet!

 

That said I am mega excited!

[Richard Wait]

Wow, this is pretty impressive! 

 

But isn't anyone else a little annoyed with Sony, bringing out model refreshes so often? It wasn't long ago the A7R was announced released.

[wolf33d]

Sony A7S is gonna have 12mpx. Its gonna be a serial killer.... 

 

 

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-sony-a7s-has-12-megapixel-full-frame-sensor/

[maxotics]

Something to bear in mind...

 

I highly doubt the A7S will use the full frame sensor area to record 4K from. If they use their 36MP A7R and take a 4096 x 2160 box from it, you will have a smaller sensor than Super 35mm. If they use their 24MP A7 sensor it will still be a big crop.

 

Andrew you would know better than I, but what manufacturer has put in a center crop video box for any camera?  My guess is they don't want to handle a million phone calls that go "why am I zoomed into my kid's forehead when I shoot video on this camera!?"  Assuming this remains true, then the only way for Sony to deliver expected focal-length video from any of their cameras is by line-skipping of pixel binning, each of which still suffers from lack of global shutter (that is, jello effect).  So I see any full-frame 4K video as being a repeat of their VG series story.  Nice marketing of large sensor, poor real-world results.

 

I agree with you, the GH4 is the standard, for my budget at any rate.

[dafreaking]

Ok before this goes further off track..

 

1. I don't think as far as specs go at the price point anything will come close to the GH4. Hell I think it's better than the 1DC as far as specs go. With the speed booster the crop factor shouldn't be too much of a difference either. I am super stoked about it as I could probably buy the GH4 with a 12-35 2.8 or a Speedbooster and Sigma 18-35 1.8 in what it would cost just to buy a 5D3 body or 2 of them with lenses for the price of a C100. (A camera who's form factor and ergonomics I love)

 

2. Also Andrew, please don't jinx the GH4. I know you are really excited about it, SO ARE WE! It was a light hearted dig at your obsession. Has the time you've spent in Germany robbed you of your humour? I get it's your forum, but take a chill pill.

[Leica50mm]

So far, i haven't seen any footage from the G4 that looks as good as the G3 . 

[joe1946]

Low light performance with a 12mp full frame sensor should be off the charts  IMHO !

[Leica50mm]

And as far as the footage from the 1 DC, its no where near it .

[Leica50mm]

The footage you have posted looks like barf. 

[xenogears]

If this a7s use a 12Mpx FF sensor just mean this camera will became something like the FS100 successor, like the GH4 can be a direct successor of the AF100, is not a bad move at all, becasue this a7s with the xlr adapter could make this camera my first option for documentary work, just hope this a7s doesn't became a rushed product thank to the GH4 launch.

[theSUBVERSIVE]

It's a 12MP FF and it will do 4K in 1:1 pixel.

 

That's quite a surprise, Sony going with what actually makes sense instead of going for the big numbers and ending up crippling the camera.

 

I wonder if it's April Fool's Day again! LOL.

 

If Sony is really thinking about KO'in the 5D, it will have similar price, but it gives me a feeling like it's going to be more.

[john_d]

Crossing my fingers and hope that Sony makes a battery grip equivalent to the GH4! Not sure if there are a lot of Sony users here in this forum, but am I the only one awkwardly reaching for record button? Why can't they just let us program start/stop video to one of the many Fn buttons?!

 

Btw, the current a7r xlr adapter + mic (XLR-K1M) is $800 USD. I am hoping for a cheaper (no mic!) XLR adapter version (similar to the Panasonic AG-YAGHG Interface Unit).

[Andrew Reid]

12MP is a superb choice if true.

[Julian]

@Julian too much time between announcement and shipment? this doesn't make any sense at all. It seems to me that a two or three month window is perfect. It gives a chance for pros to handle the camera and give their input to Panasonic. To the best of my knowledge, Panasonic's release of the GH4 is some of the best marketing in the camera sector I've ever seen. It also appears that Panasonic has really been listening to what videographers have had to say about the camera. And regardless of what Sony turns out, there's no way it will have the wealth of features the GH4 can boast.

 

They could let the pro's test it before the announcement imo :)

 

I agree their marketing campaign is good (on the other hand, it's a product that speaks for itself, especially if there is no competition). Just image if it was launched in march, a month after the announcement. Panasonic would have sold it to all the early 4K adaptors. Now with a competitor on the horizon, people actually will have a choice.

 

Of course, this all depends on what kind of product this A7S will be. I'm guessing it won't have the same kind of codecs as the GH4. But still, the FS100 is still highly regarded, right? Even with it's low bitrate. Also, look at the huge crows that are filming with inferior Canon dslr's versus the small amount of people using Panasonic (GH2/GH3/G6) that's much better for the same price or less... It's not always the best product that wins. A lot of photographers are fixated on full frame. If you have a ton of full frame glass, an A7S might be a more obvious choice than a GH4.

 

Anyway, competition is great. Very curious what Sony will bring.

[joe1946]

I bet it will have the same 4K specs as the Sony 4K AX100 with 60MB/s XAVC S 4K @ 24 and 30 fps on SD cards with exFAT file system.