Panasonic s5 color space transform

[zerocool22]

Hello, 

I shot some clips with V-log on the S5. But when I apply a color space transform in Resolve the image and skintones turn really red. So that cant be correct. What am I doing wrong? (Skintones were lit with 5600 light with custom wb, before the colour space transform the colours look normal)

Input color space: Panasonic V-Gamut
Input Gamma: Panasonic V-log
Output Color Space: Rec709
Output gamma: Rec709

 

Thanks,
 

[hyalinejim]

Yes, the default conversion from V gamut to Rec709 makes skintones a bit red. This is the way Panasonic designed it, unfortunately. 

[zerocool22]

10 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

Yes, the default conversion from V gamut to Rec709 makes skintones a bit red. This is the way Panasonic designed it, unfortunately. 

Well that is sad news, I played around with other cameras gamuts, and the alexa one is quite nice toned down, but this is a major flaw for panasonic cameras... 

[Mark Romero 2]

@zerocool22

Which version of resolve are you using?

If you have version 17, I highly recommend using the DaVinci Wide Gamut (you have to go in to DaVinci Managed Color in the project settings and then choose DaVinci Wide Gamut), then make sure the input color space for your clips is set to Panasonic V-LOG, and it looks really good, IMHO. Be sure to NOT use any CST or LUT nodes when you try it out.

Also, with Resolve 17, Panasonic V-LOG and DaVinci Wide Gamut, try using the HDR panel for your primary grading instead of using the LOG / Primary wheels / Primary Bars.

Hope this helps.

ASIDE: Personally, I was never completely satisfied with the V-LOG image in Resolve 16 when using either CST or with the Default LUT, nor with ACES transform. Of course, could be 100% operator error. I liked using some of the Varicam LUTs that are available on the Panasonic site, namely the  Fashion Lo Contrast and Nicest LUT. 

[zerocool22]

29 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

@zerocool22

Which version of resolve are you using?

If you have version 17, I highly recommend using the DaVinci Wide Gamut (you have to go in to DaVinci Managed Color in the project settings and then choose DaVinci Wide Gamut), then make sure the input color space for your clips is set to Panasonic V-LOG, and it looks really good, IMHO. Be sure to NOT use any CST or LUT nodes when you try it out.

Also, with Resolve 17, Panasonic V-LOG and DaVinci Wide Gamut, try using the HDR panel for your primary grading instead of using the LOG / Primary wheels / Primary Bars.

Hope this helps.

ASIDE: Personally, I was never completely satisfied with the V-LOG image in Resolve 16 when using either CST or with the Default LUT, nor with ACES transform. Of course, could be 100% operator error. I liked using some of the Varicam LUTs that are available on the Panasonic site, namely the  Fashion Lo Contrast and Nicest LUT. 

I just upgraded to 17 yesterday, could you post a printscreen of your settings as I dont seem to be able to get it working properly?

[Mark Romero 2]

10 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

I just upgraded to 17 yesterday, could you post a printscreen of your settings as I dont seem to be able to get it working properly?

Will do. Give me about 10 minutes

[Mark Romero 2]

OK, first go in to preferences and change the color management / color settings. Set output color space to Rec.709 2.4 and disable any input LUTs / transforms.

 

Then in either the media pool or the medial viewer of the edit page, change the Input Color Space to Panasonic V-LOG / V Gamut

 

You should end up with a really good starting point even before grading. I disabled the nodes in my grade to show you the starting point. NOTE: For whatever reason, photoshop saturates my screen captures from the color page of resolve a lot, so the image is not as saturated as it looks in this screen shot.

Note the HDR panel location next to the primary wheels / bars / log tab. If you see the levels in the center viewer, click the HDR icon a second time and it will display the HDR levels tool instead. 

HDR tool works EVEN IF YOU WILL BE DELIVERING IN SD INSTEAD OF HDR. big benefit is that adding contrast does not add saturation the way that it normally does when using primary wheels / bars / log tools.

 

 

Hope this helps. 

[zerocool22]

31 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

OK, first go in to preferences and change the color management / color settings. Set output color space to Rec.709 2.4 and disable any input LUTs / transforms.

 

Then in either the media pool or the medial viewer of the edit page, change the Input Color Space to Panasonic V-LOG / V Gamut

 

You should end up with a really good starting point even before grading. I disabled the nodes in my grade to show you the starting point. NOTE: For whatever reason, photoshop saturates my screen captures from the color page of resolve a lot, so the image is not as saturated as it looks in this screen shot.

Note the HDR panel location next to the primary wheels / bars / log tab. If you see the levels in the center viewer, click the HDR icon a second time and it will display the HDR levels tool instead. 

HDR tool works EVEN IF YOU WILL BE DELIVERING IN SD INSTEAD OF HDR. big benefit is that adding contrast does not add saturation the way that it normally does when using primary wheels / bars / log tools.

 

 

Hope this helps. 

Thanks, its still giving me red tones though. Actually it looks reallly really similar to the color space transform look.

[TomTheDP]

I'd recommend the GHALEX lut. Will give you an accurate color conversion to Arri LogC or Rec709. 

[omega1978]

I use Leeming LUT and skintones are nice.

[herein2020]

Well my .02 is I stopped using LUTS for primaries grading for the S5 and feel like my footage is now better than before. LUTS always seemed to do things to the footage that I had no way of knowing what exactly they did with no good way to get back whatever was lost. The C200 is a different story and I cannot match the Canon CLOG3 to Rec709 LUT so I still use that for primaries grading for the C200's footage.

For the S5 I always shoot in VLOG 10bit and use the following workflow in Davinci Resolve as my starting point for all clips:

1. I create 3 Nodes (Primaries, Curves, FalseColor)
2. In the primaries node I add 90% saturation and 1.17 contrast, I then adjust the lift and gain until the image looks right to my eyes while making sure that it fits within the WFM for Rec.709
3. I have a false color LUT and I apply that to node 3 then disable the node. After grading the primaries node I enable node 3 to check skin exposure, if the false color LUT shows the skin is over or under exposed I adjust the lift and gain as needed to get proper skin exposure. 
4. After the project is complete I sometimes add an adjustment clip over everything and apply a creative color grading LUT to the adjustment clip to give the entire project a creative grade. Also, but very rarely I use Node 2 to adjust the curves if I'm not getting the granularity I want with the primaries wheels; but its pretty rare. Really the only time I do this is when I need more contrast in a specific area but don't want to affect the rest of the image.

My whole process for each clip only takes seconds and after I grade the first clip I just copy the grade to each subsequent clip and make slight adjustments to the lift and gain as needed depending on the lighting conditions. If there are no people in the video  or for that particular clip (i.e. for real estate), then I just use the WFM and make sure nothing is over or under exposed. Definitely not Hollywood quality, but I'm also not being paid Hollywood rates.

For the project settings I've always just left them at their defaults (Davinci YRGB and timeline color space Rec.709). 

[scotchtape]

Not using panasonic, but I started using an x-rite color checker and I found that I liked the look when I applied the corrections.

Specifically for Sony, the orange and red luminance values got shifted down which felt more natural compared to not using it.

Maybe for Panasonic it can help as well.

[hyalinejim]

@zerocool22 have you tried adjusting skintone hue in the hue vs. hue control in resolve?

If you create 3 anchor points, one on skin tone hue and 2 on either side of it and then just pull the middle point a bit towards green that might be a quick fix, assuming that you're happy with everything else in the conversion.

 

[zerocool22]

7 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

@zerocool22 have you tried adjusting skintone hue in the hue vs. hue control in resolve?

If you create 3 anchor points, one on skin tone hue and 2 on either side of it and then just pull the middle point a bit towards green that might be a quick fix, assuming that you're happy with everything else in the conversion.

 

Yes I can correct it even with lift gamma gain, but it takes time. I figured V-log is quite popular the conversion should be fast and easy (as every minute counts). But def takes longer then bmlog, so workflow its a minus for me. 

[zerocool22]

I just downloaded the S5 filmconvert nitrate camera package, and tried to apply this to see if that looks nice. But that doesnt look great either. Does the S5 filmconvert package look nice on anybody's footage?

[hyalinejim]

16 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Yes I can correct it even with lift gamma gain, but it takes time. I figured V-log is quite popular the conversion should be fast and easy (as every minute counts). But def takes longer then bmlog, so workflow its a minus for me. 

I was thinking of a constant correction that you could just apply to all clips and forget about it.

For my GH5 I use a lut I made that mimics Portra 400 film. It works fine on the S1 too as long as the input is V-Log V-gamut in a Rec709 colour space. It's quite contrasty so the signal might need adjusting before the lut to bring the image within range (grading should be done on the VLog signal before the lut, not after).

But skintones should be very nice:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WC3uiROs7-088UeBHwPpwPLQxsuzZPju/view?usp=sharing